It would seem HID is dead.

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HereAgainAgain
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It would seem HID is dead.

Over the last while I’ve noticed the HID buzz has died.
No one talks about them, no one seems to care !

I’m not surprised. Many drawbacks and the beam pattern on most of them are horrible. A lot with the ugly triangle shape void in the beam.

Go LED !

HID in my opinion has its place, and that place is not our pockets.

ImA4Wheelr
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Kind of looking that way. The flood of really poorly executed bulbs hasn’t helped matters. Economies of scale probably aren’t there anymore to make good affordable bulbs.

Does anyone know of any reliable source for well made bulbs that has reasonable prices?

Bort
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I assume a well regulated XHP70 will trounce most HIDs for cost, lumen output, and $$$ per lumen.

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scheven_architect
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My Supbeam K40vn completely smokes my 85w ebay HID and is instant max output.

 

 
Dimbo The Blinky
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“Good”, “affordable”, and “HID” seldom collide in the same conversation.

In another thread, someone suggested a cylindrical HID ballast for a D-size Mag… I hate waste & have been trying to find a way to get my old 6D Mag back into service, so I was inspired. One pass through a CBA put it right out of my mind. For just the cost of the eBay Ballast that would fit in a D-size body (and nevermind how do I make that much Voltage with the room left over!!), I could buy a brace of bespoke LED pocket-able torches that would leave that huge Mag crying in the dark.

I’m still not as big a fan of LEDs as some of you, but I’m willing to put up with “NearlyWhite” and Too Dim for the Cost-Benefit ratio. I’m even reaching out to try to find justification for the blinkies…

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

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I have some time to kill so I’ll throw in my .02 cents. Silly

It all depends on the cost factor, application and intent. Ive had +18,000 OTF lumens of wide angle HID on the front bumper of my 4 X 4 for 3 years and have thoroughly enjoyed them without any problems. They even came with their own wring harness, which makes the installation a piece of cake. They can stay on for as long as the truck is running and wont overheat, dim, change luminosity or color temperature. When voltage sags at low RPM, they still remain at the same constant lumens without dimming. Nothing beats their simplicity and ease of use for plug-and-play/simple mod installations. They just work. I did buy a high quality HID kit to avoid the pitfalls associated with all the cheap chinese garbage that has saturated the market. The housings I put them in are the standard in professional off-road racing as well as many military vehicle installations… which defines their amazingly well controlled beam profile. All said, the intense concentrated light source of the 100 watt HID mod is what brought them to life.

My friends “all-out modified” 6.5A TK61 got completely blotted out by my 100 watt HID searchlight conversion (My HID has at least twice the range 5 times the beam width). Although the flashlight is more convenient, you almost cant tell if its on or off when compared to my HID. An AGM cell pack in my backpack gave me a 2.5 hour continuous run time @8000 lumen output with no thermal considerations of loss of lumens. His TK61 was thoroughly overheated inside of 4 minutes and needed to be shut down! Sick The ergonomics of the spotlight also made it far more comfortable to use, easier to carry and aim.

I’ll eventually finish my LED light bar project along with its proper heat sink necessary to cool that much power during continuous low speed operation, but it will be to compliment my HID’s, not to replace them. Even with the advanced high powered drivers that were custom built for this application, I will still have to deal with heat sensitive logarithmic current controlled throttling for the sink as well as the drivers, put up with the dimming of the LED’s at low RPM’s (as voltage falls below vF of the array), long expensive heavy gauge wire runs, large marine grade relays and fuse blocks, 20 lb heat sink, wiring nightmares and very expensive CNC milling. Then make it all waterproof and reliable.

Then there’s the variable beam monster HID in my sig, that will easily obliterate anything LED in its size and price range… not to mention its technical excellence as an engineering masterpiece.

I keep waiting for large efficient single die .5 – 1.0” emitters with at least 4 times the surface brightness of the current top offerings, but I think we will probably need a new and different technology to achieve those goals.

ImA4Wheelr
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^
You have a source lined up for replacement bulbs Flash? Your 100watt kit link in your handheld build thread has been dead for quite some time.

I’d like to convert my 35watt (maybe 55watts) Thor Colossus to 100watt.

FlashPilot
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Thanks to the rigorous testing of others, I am only familiar with the 100 watt HID kits with the large ballast, external ignitor and ceramic lamp base. There are several vendors on ebay and aliexpress. Just check the pics in my thread and get the exact same kit and avoid the others. You need to specify bulb mount type and color temp. Maximum lumens is with the 4300k bulbs. Knock on wood, I havent needed to shop for replacement lamps. They have lasted for at least 200 hours with no signs of degradation in a demanding, high vibration environment.

I bet the Colossus will love a 100W HID. If you can find a good 70W HID bulb w cermaic base for the 100W ballast, you might achieve even higher surface brightness. Sorry, I cant find the thread now.

FlashPilot
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IMa4,

This looks like the kit, and the price has dropped! Big Smile
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-set-12v-100w-xenon-hid-kit-with-h1-h4-h...

Enjoy!

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Sharpie wrote:

I still think HID is destined for history. It’s not where the development work is going anymore.

Lets hope so, but they still have a long way to go to make any of those other solutions affordable and mainstream. And they might not ever be suitable for modifying existing hardware to produce cost effective, simple, worthwhile results.

IMHO, for many inexpensive, high lumen applications (especially in DIY and retrofit), nothing can come even close to matching the simplicity, performance/cost ratio of a properly engineered HID solution.

ImA4Wheelr
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FlashPilot wrote:
IMa4,

This looks like the kit, and the price has dropped! Big Smile
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-set-12v-100w-xenon-hid-kit-with-h1-h4-h...

Enjoy!

Thanks Flash. Much appreciated Smile

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Any time 4wheeler! Let us know how it goes.

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Sharpie wrote:
LED has long ago overtaken them for e.g. car headlights.

I think they are going the way of cathode ray tubes.

The LED beams on my GF’s new car are astonishingly good.

Halogen will live on, for a time, I expect, at the lower end of the market.

Autobahn driving needs decent lighting.

I agree. I have the new LED lights on the 2016 BMW X1 and it is absolutely fantastic. From the outside, it’s “just a projector” but I can clearly see the emitters through the lens. The cutoff is exceptionally crisp and the light is very, very even. I am lamenting the fact I didn’t opt for the LED lighting for the 2015 Mini Cooper… only halogens swapped to NightBreakers Sad

Having said that, as a proper retrofit, HID trumps LED if only for the mere fact the engineering going into these so-called LED Conversion kits (hey, we sell them, unfortunately!) is a bit lacking.

HIDCanada.com for Fenix / Sunwayman / XTAR / XENO

ImA4Wheelr
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Cars headlights are not designed for max throw. So it makes sense that LED’s better fit the bill. I haven’t built many serious LED throwers. Best was 800+kcd, 2nd and 3rd best were around half that. None of them throw as well as my 35 (maybe 55watt) HID spot light.

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I’m sure theres more than me here that knew what you meant DBSAR. Smile

My current and or voltage measurements are only relevent to anything that I measure.

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luminarium iaculator
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I have Microfire 3500 HID and it really sucks. From run time to output and not to mention warming up time. My first, last and never more hid.

LED is far superior technology for handheld flashlights.

But of course HID could win in a HID vs LED output competition in “Batman call” sized lights.

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JamesB
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It would seem HID are cornered by LED into an ever receding pocket of niche usage, they are much more complicated by design especially for hand held use but LED that are now more efficient than HID still cannot touch it for ultimate intensity and CRI.

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Quote:
HID is going to eventually die off just like Incandescent & Halogens…

Nothing needs to die as long as it is of service.

I find little reason to switch over to led bulbs in my bathroom fixture. Little running time and frequent ON/OFF switching is the perfect recipe to keep using my beloved top CRI incans I can buy everywhere for cheap as @#$%. The fixture keeps the bulbs upside down, so when the filaments break a bit I just have to give a few taps to the bulb and it works again. Wink

 

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DBSAR wrote:

People like you make me laugh. Let’s see that “2.3 million lumen” HID in a handheld flashlight.

Oh wow, you didn’t know that HID bulbs can be used in more than just flashlights?
Do you think that sky beams use LEDs? lol
HID have tons of applications.

The 2.3M lumen bulb isn’t handheld, but to prove my point here is a flashlight with ~50Mcd which is impossible to achieve with an LED:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?139958-MAXABLASTER-BE...
http://www.instructables.com/community/Maxablaster-The-homemade-52-milli...

Go ahead and try, plenty of people have, there is no LED anywhere close to this.

Also, single HID bulbs can do 8000lm+ while nearing 100lm/W efficiency.
Go try to find a non-COB LED which can do that many lumens at that efficiency. (because a COB is useless for throw)
The closest I have found is an XHP70 at 12-15 amps producing 6-7000lm at about 60lm/W efficiency.

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Jerommel wrote:
Come on Enderman, that’s really unfriendly.

Then why quote it?
To encourage more people to click the button?
Just press it and move on, if some meaningless words on a screen really affect you that much.
luminarium iaculator
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Mr. Enderman you are pure evil EvilBig Smile

Yes you are right about HID performance and record breaking but when we need a trailer for such light it is really no brainer to make assumption that something is wrong with us; but in a good way of course cause we are probably preparing for war or alien encounter on our diy ships, helicopters and planes.

For me HID in flashlight format was dead several years ago and if you see the future for HID in our regular flashlight use and modds then I think you are very optimistic person.

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

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DBSAR wrote:
His dense mind can’t seem to grasp were talking about “Flashlight” HID form-factors in this thread and NOT search lights mounted on a spaceship. Some people just prefer to be assholes and slander others. ( which one time that stuff was only found on CPF and not here, but i guess times & attitudes are changing with some new members coming in.

+1

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luminarium iaculator wrote:
Mr. Enderman you are pure evil EvilBig Smile

Yes you are right about HID performance and record breaking but when we need a trailer for such light it is really no brainer to make assumption that something is wrong with us; but in a good way of course cause we are probably preparing for war or alien encounter on our diy ships, helicopters and planes.


There is no definition of “flashlight format” other than a battery powered portable device.
Yeah I agree it’s not any good for an EDC pocket sized light, but you need to understand that not everyone uses flashlights to carry them in their pockets.
The maxablaster is still a flashlight by definition.

luminarium iaculator wrote:
HID in our regular flashlight use and modds

No, definitely not in this forum where almost everyone is buying single or double digit cost flashlights.
HID is obviously way more expensive and more for enthusiasts.
Expensive and rare =/= dead.
Or maybe you think we should say bugatti and all the other hypercars are dead just because they are rare and expensive and few people use them?

DBSAR wrote:
His dense mind can’t seem to grasp were talking about “Flashlight” HID form-factors in this thread and NOT search lights mounted on a spaceship. Some people just prefer to be assholes and slander others. ( which one time that stuff was only found on CPF and not here, but i guess times & attitudes are changing with some new members coming in.

Actually, this thread is about HID in general.
I don’t see anywhere that it says “HID is dead for pocket lights” it just says “HID is dead”
The flashlight world is larger than just pocket lights, and just because the majority of people don’t use something doesn’t mean it’s dead.

This is a flashlight forum after all, not just a pocket light EDC forum.
PS- there is no such thing as “HID form factor” you just made that up xD
Did you mean to say “EDC”? Because I can see how what you’re saying applies to EDC lights, but definitely not all flashlights.

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Pfft…the HID on my boat makes the longest throwing LED flashlights seem like dim candles blowing in the breeze. It is said to be “portable”, and I would almost have to agree. LOL They are only fun for about 5 minutes when stationary, then you’ll be wondering how to make it portable to use on the go.

Has anyone else grabbed one (or similar +1kW) to play with and mounted atop a pickup truck or boat? A manual roof mounted pan/tilt would be interesting and a whole lot less complex/expensive than my mod.

luminarium iaculator
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Ok,

All mentioned above have sense and it stands weather we talk about our classic handheld flashlights(90% of market) or about specialized vehicle or huge HID lights(10% of market?) but also because of everything said and mentioned in previous posts flashlight manufacturers will tend to work with more cheap and reliable parts in a future so yes I agree with DBSAR… HID is not dead yet but it will probably be in a future, and all that because HID technology probably reached its maximum potential while LED has still more room for developing (although currently in LED technology I don’t see any progress especially when it comes to super throwy emitters we had 2 years ago).

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

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FlashPilot wrote:
Pfft…the HID on my boat makes the longest throwing LED flashlights seem like dim candles blowing in the breeze. It is said to be “portable”, and I would almost have to agree. LOL They are only fun for about 5 minutes when stationary, then you’ll be wondering how to make it portable to use on the go.

Has anyone else grabbed one (or similar +1kW) to play with and mounted atop a pickup truck or boat? A manual roof mounted pan/tilt would be interesting and a whole lot less complex/expensive than my mod.

Are you referring to the adjustable 360* Remote searchlights that are magnetized and remotely operated? If so, yes I occasionally stick one atop my car or truck when I want to have fun… The beam is un godly bright!I believe mine is a “Go Light Wanna-be” made by a company called Afterpartz but it has to come close to a real Go Light’s output. Anywhere you aim it, you can see as far as your eyes can go Thumbs Up
I personally own a Xenonics Nighthunter 1 short arc ,a 12W HID dive light Darkbuster brand good for 550 lumen, two different Jobsmart HID lights, one being handheld and the other an actual big spot light both modded with 4300K bulbs and 55W ballasts, and as of lastnight I am the new owner of a Peak Beam Maxa Beam 450. Go big or go home right?

flashaholic with a bad habit....

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khoffman91 wrote:
FlashPilot wrote:
Pfft…the HID on my boat makes the longest throwing LED flashlights seem like dim candles blowing in the breeze. It is said to be “portable”, and I would almost have to agree. LOL They are only fun for about 5 minutes when stationary, then you’ll be wondering how to make it portable to use on the go.

Has anyone else grabbed one (or similar +1kW) to play with and mounted atop a pickup truck or boat? A manual roof mounted pan/tilt would be interesting and a whole lot less complex/expensive than my mod.

Are you referring to the adjustable 360* Remote searchlights that are magnetized and remotely operated? If so, yes I occasionally stick one atop my car or truck when I want to have fun… The beam is un godly bright!I believe mine is a “Go Light Wanna-be” made by a company called Afterpartz but it has to come close to a real Go Light’s output. Anywhere you aim it, you can see as far as your eyes can go Thumbs Up
I personally own a Xenonics Nighthunter 1 short arc ,a 12W HID dive light Darkbuster brand good for 550 lumen, two different Jobsmart HID lights, one being handheld and the other an actual big spot light both modded with 4300K bulbs and 55W ballasts, and as of lastnight I am the new owner of a Peak Beam Maxa Beam 450. Go big or go home right?

Thanks for sharing your experiences. It sounds like you enjoy scaring the dark into hiding from you! If you have a means of powering large HID’s, they are by far the highest light intensity/most powerful single light source/portable light sources available to the consumer. By their very nature, I doubt LED technology will ever be able to compete in that realm… not even close.

I was asking if anyone else had mounted a 1000 watt (1kW or larger) short arc on a moving vehicle. Id be interested in which alternator(s) and controllers they chose for power. Check my sig for my 1kW short arc, pan/tilt and power system mods. Before that, I had a 450 watt ORC searcher (for aircraft mounted search and rescue) but it didnt have the massive swath of light provided by the 1kW when the beam was adjusted for maximum flood. I got a demo of the older (and comparatively much larger) 2.5kW version, but the optics weren’t nearly as efficient as the 1kW illuminator, and it lacked many of the design features of the newer unit. Because I sometimes run in salt water, I also opted for the waterproof military version for its sealed active heat exchanger and internal shock absorption system. It lived on top of a main battle tank barrel, so I figured it would be tough enough to survive the G shock loads incurred on a boat. Hitting waves at speed, the entire boat often leaves the water and lands with a good amount of impact.

I had a HID Go Light Stryker (with remote) on my play pickup for a while, but replaced it with 3 × 100 watt HID conversions using the huge Hella Rallye 4000 housings to maximize lumen efficiencies and provide nice beam patterns.

Congrats on your 450. How do you like it so far?

A beat-up old maxabeam appeared on craigslist, but it was an early version with less wattage, and the guy was asking far too much for it.

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Dimbo The Blinky wrote:
“Good”, “affordable”, and “HID” seldom collide in the same conversation.

How about “ultraportable”, “affordable”, “HID”…“headlamp” ?


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No.

Just… no.

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Bort wrote:
I assume a well regulated XHP70 will trounce most HIDs for cost, lumen output, and $$$ per lumen.

luminarium iaculator
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WOW bro! There is really something crazy behind that picture.

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