Cree XP-G3, testing a S5 3A emitter

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pilotdog68
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Sirius9 wrote:
… top and left edge of the emitter die is missing some phosphor, that phosphor was stuck on the silicone dome …swelling of the dome caused that.

So what if we combine gas dedoming and hot dedoming? instead of just sitting the emitter in gasoline, hook it up to a power source and run it at 1amp or so while it sits in the gasoline. It would also keep the gas a bit warm I would think.

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pilotdog68 wrote:
Sirius9 wrote:
… top and left edge of the emitter die is missing some phosphor, that phosphor was stuck on the silicone dome …swelling of the dome caused that.

So what if we combine gas dedoming and hot dedoming? instead of just sitting the emitter in gasoline, hook it up to a power source and run it at 1amp or so while it sits in the gasoline. It would also keep the gas a bit warm I would think.

Warm? Maybe…

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3v isn’t going to cause any sparks (especially submerged), and liquid gasoline isn’t that flammable anyways.

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pilotdog68 wrote:
3v isn’t going to cause any sparks (especially submerged), and liquid gasoline isn’t that flammable anyways.

Yeah, I know. Silly

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DavidEF wrote:
pilotdog68 wrote:
3v isn’t going to cause any sparks (especially submerged), and liquid gasoline isn’t that flammable anyways.

Yeah, I know. Silly
Hat

So, who’s going to try it on a G3?

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pilotdog68 wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
pilotdog68 wrote:
3v isn’t going to cause any sparks (especially submerged), and liquid gasoline isn’t that flammable anyways.

Yeah, I know. Silly
Hat

So, who’s going to try it on a G3?


YOU! Grad

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Still waiting to get mine!

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Great test. Very similar to the results I got here.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/47254

I love your graphs. Much better than mine. What program are you using to do those in?

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vestureofblood wrote:
Great test. Very similar to the results I got here.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/47254

I love your graphs. Much better than mine. What program are you using to do those in?


I use the chart options from Excel. A bit of a pain, but nothing is automated in my tests anyway, slow slow slow!

(I have been thinking about automating my emitter tests, but every step being slow and manual does add more control over the testing and possible faults than an automated set-up)

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I managed to de-dome a couple of XP-G3 S5 2C's yesterday, & spent some time testing them in the same Courui D01 that I have used recently to test some other emitters.

The de-dome was relatively clean;

 

Unless I'm doing something completely wrong, there's no way these things are going to be the new 'throw king' in a reflector light.

Running the emitters at their peak output (~8 Amps), the highest reading I could get was 264k.

I de-domed & tested two emitters, one on a Maxtoch 32mm board, the other on a Noctigon 32mm. Both were within a few k of each other.

In comparison, the 'good' XP-G2 S4 2B netted 443k under the same test conditions.

Even the Oslon 3rd Gen managed 410k.

 

The question of die-size between the 'good' XP-G2 & XP-G3 has popped up a couple of times. Here's what I measured with my dial-calipers;

'Good' XP-G2; 0.0530"

XP-G3; 0.0555"

So it is slightly bigger. But the XPL is a lot bigger, & an XPL HI V3 punches out ~360k in the same host...

 

New Throw king? I don't think so. undecided

 

 

 - edit to correct bin/tint of the XPG3.

 

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Thanks for doing the measurement. Did you happen to test the with-dome XPG3 in your host? Has anybody done lux measurements with the stock XPG3? From djozz’s lumen measurements and comments it seems like it should perform pretty well even with dome since its output was close to the XPL HI that was measured.

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EasyB wrote:
Thanks for doing the measurement. Did you happen to test the with-dome XPG3 in your host? Has anybody done lux measurements with the stock XPG3? From djozz’s lumen measurements and comments it seems like it should perform pretty well even with dome since its output was close to the XPL HI that was measured.

Didn’t try with the dome on, sorry. I may give it a go out of curiosity, but I can’t see it being any better than XPL, plus at ~8 Amps, the cells are going south pretty quick….

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FmC,

Thanks for test.
Even bad(new production process) XP-G2 seems better than new XP-G3. So is there a reason to be enthusiastic about this emitter? I think there is no reason for that.
Even if it could driven at 8A reach performance of good old XP-G2(s42b for ex) driven 4.2 -4.5 A; same performance should not be considered as an improvement imho.
I want to say that at that current sag G3 would really have to be special and have more than 20% better performance than old good G2.

From your test guys I think that is not going to happen.

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Thanks for the test mate. I like this emitter its a good mix and plus the price is great. It is just as bright as a XML2 ( the harden driven XML2 i own is only 5amps) this does use more power and it throws almost as far a XPL-HI so i would place in between these two!

I bought some on DTP copper boards for $3 compared to the $9 each i paid for the XML2 and XPLHI.

I have a XPG2 sitting here but no host for it i really want to DE-dome it and try it.

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FmC wrote:

I managed to de-dome a couple of XP-G3 S5 2C’s yesterday, & spent some time testing them in the same Courui D01 that I have used recently to test some other emitters.


The de-dome was relatively clean;



 


Unless I’m doing something completely wrong, there’s no way these things are going to be the new ‘throw king’ in a reflector light.


Running the emitters at their peak output (~8 Amps), the highest reading I could get was 264k.


I de-domed & tested two emitters, one on a Maxtoch 32mm board, the other on a Noctigon 32mm. Both were within a few k of each other.


In comparison, the ‘good’ XP-G2 S4 2B netted 443k under the same test conditions.


Even the Oslon 3rd Gen managed 410k.


 


The question of die-size between the ‘good’ XP-G2 & XP-G3 has popped up a couple of times. Here’s what I measured with my dial-calipers;


‘Good’ XP-G2; 0.0530”


XP-G3; 0.0555”


So it is slightly bigger. But the XPL is a lot bigger, & an XPL HI V3 punches out ~360k in the same host…


 


New Throw king? I don’t think so. undecided


 


 


 - edit to correct bin/tint of the XPG3.


 


Something doesn’t add up here. Not questioning you, or what you saw. Just saying that mathematically, the results you posted here don’t add up somehow.

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DavidEF wrote:
Something doesn’t add up here. Not questioning you, or what you saw. Just saying that mathematically, the results you posted here don’t add up somehow.

I must admit that I expected a better result, which is why I done it again with a second emitter.

Maybe it has something to do with the application of the phosphor & the dome as a package, & when the dome is taken out of the equation, it all goes pear shaped. Question

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FmC wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
Something doesn’t add up here. Not questioning you, or what you saw. Just saying that mathematically, the results you posted here don’t add up somehow.

I must admit that I expected a better result, which is why I done it again with a second emitter.

Maybe it has something to do with the application of the phosphor & the dome as a package, & when the dome is taken out of the equation, it all goes pear shaped. Question


Yeah, there seems to be something like that going on. I think MEM posted once that a de-domed XP-G3 has a concave surface to the phosphor. I dunno. With a total output (domed) in the range of XM-L2, and the die size similar to XP-G2 (not much different/larger), there should be no contest on throw. Here’s hoping somebody gets to the bottom of this before it drives us all crazy! (For some of us, that’s a short drive.)

Oh, by the way, thanks for doing this testing and posting results. Forgot to say that before! Innocent

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FmC test of de domed G3 in Courui d01 and Djozz test of very neatly sliced G3 in Brinyte should tell a lot…

FmC Courui D01
XP-G2 S4 2B de domed vs XP-G3 S5 2C de domed 443kcd vs 264kcd

Djozz Brinyte B158 XP-G2 S4 2B de domed vs XP-G3 S5 3A sliced (very neatly sliced) 320kcd vs 206kcd

And in FET driver G3 achieves maximum performance at about 8A current draw while G2 does it at 4.2A draw.

That tests are something that is very relevant to me. There is no magic that can improve that (well maybe MEM’s RA)

So in the market crowded with great lumen output emitters we got another one…. Smile XP-G3

WoW! Great lumens per watts performance… Thumbs Up

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EasyB wrote:
Has anybody done lux measurements with the stock XPG3? From djozz’s lumen measurements and comments it seems like it should perform pretty well even with dome since its output was close to the XPL HI that was measured.

3 months later, has anyone done this? I’m interested which is more worth my time in an L2, XP-L HI or Domed XP-G3

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pilotdog68 wrote:
EasyB wrote:
Has anybody done lux measurements with the stock XPG3? From djozz’s lumen measurements and comments it seems like it should perform pretty well even with dome since its output was close to the XPL HI that was measured.
3 months later, has anyone done this? I’m interested which is more worth my time in an L2, XP-L HI or Domed XP-G3

Yes, I did measure the domed XPG3. In an eagle eye X6 with bypassed springs and a fresh 30Q, I measured 58.6kcd. An XPL HI V2 3B in the same host did 71.4kcd. The XPL draws considerably less current to do it, also.

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Will the sliced XPG3 be a better emitter for a FET driven reflector? Like C8 for example? Than XPLhi? Or xpg2?

What about 3.5A reflector? The low vf should provide better light for the duration of the battery. Especially compared to xpg2.

It is still a smaller die than xplhi. Or at least it should be.

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Sorry if I’ve missed this, but is a regular domed XP-L a better choice for “max lumens” versus an XP-G3? I’m looking to mod a second Nitefighter BT40S bike light (1st one modded with Nichia 219C’s – 4 LEDs @ approx. 2.0A each) and was going to try it with XP-L’s to go for more lumen output. I probably won’t boost it to 2A per LED though; think I’ll come down a little but not sure where. At 2A per LED with the 1st light my low mode really isn’t low enough and turbo is just for “WOW” factor and heats the light up too hot too quickly for normal riding.

Suggestions? (Sorry, don’t wish to derail; just trying to grasp where XP-L stands versus XP-G3.)

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Well if you are only driving it at 1.5-2A per LED then you are not looking for max lumens anyways, max lumens happen around 5A+

Far as which will give you more lumens per watt, well it depends. At low drive currents he XP-G3 could actually come out slightly ahead due to the lower VF. Although in the real world just go with the XP-L if you want may lumens. The normal domed version if you want flood and the “HI” version if you want throw.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
Well if you are only driving it at 1.5-2A per LED then you are not looking for max lumens anyways, max lumens happen around 5A+

Yeah I didn’t mean I was driving the light for max lumens. What I meant was which LED when driven at say 2.0A would yield the most lumens.

Texas_Ace wrote:
Far as which will give you more lumens per watt, well it depends. At low drive currents he XP-G3 could actually come out slightly ahead due to the lower VF. Although in the real world just go with the XP-L if you want may lumens.

Yeah I’m wondering which might work better “in the real world” where with bike lights we have to deal with battery cabling & connectors thereby making it difficult to pull high amps from an 8.4v pack. On my 1st BT40S mod I had a hard time even getting 3.82A pulled from a pack.

Texas_Ace wrote:
The normal domed version if you want flood and the “HI” version if you want throw.

I was surprised when I saw in the graphs that the XP-L HI’s output was still so high (lumens). I thought the HI version was at a significant reduction of lumens vs. the standard XP-L. I think in my application the HI might be too throwy though I’m not sure how it might turn out with the stock optic (optic is pretty floody).

According to djozz graphs the XP-L has just slightly more output over an XP-G3, with the XP-G3 having a slightly lower vF. I wonder if there is a significant difference in heat between these two, anyone know? Perhaps my decision will come down to which LED is available in a nicer tint. My favorite tint is a 5B1 (which I buy in XM-L2’s). I think it renders the most realistic colors riding through the woods. I don’t really like a 3C as I don’t think it’s neutral/warm enough.

Thanks,
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At 2 amps it is too close to call and honestly unimportant which one will give you more lumens. Worry instead about cost, tint and CRI.

I love the XP-L HI (when it is a genuine tint and bin), I use them basically exclusivly now days for me “real” lights. I much prefer the beam pattern and much less tint shift on the edges of the beam. They also appear brighter then the domed version in most cases due to the tighter hot spot.

That said I did just build an XP-G3 5700k 90+ CRI S2+ (my first XP-G3 build even though I have had the LED’s for months). I am impressed with how well the G3 is working. I can see this becoming my “cheap light” LED in a hurry. Only real issue is some tint shift on the edges of the beam but it doesn’t bother me and with the right reflector/TIR I have got rid of most of it.

It is putting out ~1150 lumens @ ~6.75 amps

I also have a high CRI XP-L with the same exact setup both using tripledown drivers. In the regulated 2.5A mode they both get hot at the same speed, now in turbo the G3 get hot faster due to pulling more amps but it also puts out more light then the XP-L (the XP-L on turbo pulls a bit over 5 amps IIRC and makes ~1050 lumens).

Honestly either will work just fine for a bike light, The XP-G3’s are a LOT cheaper though.

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garrybunk wrote:
Sorry if I’ve missed this, but is a regular domed XP-L a better choice for “max lumens” versus an XP-G3? I’m looking to mod a second Nitefighter BT40S bike light (1st one modded with Nichia 219C’s – 4 LEDs @ approx. 2.0A each) and was going to try it with XP-L’s to go for more lumen output. I probably won’t boost it to 2A per LED though; think I’ll come down a little but not sure where. At 2A per LED with the 1st light my low mode really isn’t low enough and turbo is just for “WOW” factor and heats the light up too hot too quickly for normal riding.

Suggestions? (Sorry, don’t wish to derail; just trying to grasp where XP-L stands versus XP-G3.)

Thanks,
-Garry

Does the dome of an XP-L fit under the optic?

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jescereal wrote:
Does the dome of an XP-L fit under the optic?

Good question! Is the dome of an XP-L significantly larger than the dome of an XP-G2? (XP-G2 being the stock LED in the BT40S)

-Garry

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garrybunk wrote:
jescereal wrote:
Does the dome of an XP-L fit under the optic?

Good question! Is the dome of an XP-L significantly larger than the dome of an XP-G2? (XP-G2 being the stock LED in the BT40S)

-Garry

Yes, much larger. it is an XM-L2 dome squared on the sides to fit the XP footprint.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
At 2 amps it is too close to call and honestly unimportant which one will give you more lumens. Worry instead about cost, tint and CRI. . . Honestly either will work just fine for a bike light, The XP-G3’s are a LOT cheaper though.

True on all accounts. I wouldn’t even notice the lumen difference by eye between XP-G3 & XP-L. I guess another important issue would be the beam pattern created by XP-G3 vs. XP-L.

If it helps, teardown pics of the BT40S are here and beamshots stock here modded vs. stock here.

(Sorry, at this point I should have started a new thread!)

Thanks,
-Garry

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Texas_Ace wrote:
garrybunk wrote:
jescereal wrote:
Does the dome of an XP-L fit under the optic?

Good question! Is the dome of an XP-L significantly larger than the dome of an XP-G2? (XP-G2 being the stock LED in the BT40S)

-Garry

Yes, much larger. it is an XM-L2 dome squared on the sides to fit the XP footprint.

Ah, ok. So I guess they typically don’t fit a Quad XP-G2 optic? So perhaps the XP-G3 is the safer bet.

-Garry

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