Cree XP-G3, testing a R3 4000K 90+CRI emitter

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djozz
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Cree XP-G3, testing a R3 4000K 90+CRI emitter

Today I finally received the long-waited-for 90+CRI Cree XP-G3 emitters that i ordered from Cutter back in May. Cutter was fast to list them while Cree probably did not even have them in production yet. I received 5000K and 4000K 90+CRI emitters.  I tested a 4000K one because I can compare it with 4000K 90+ CRI emitters from Nichia and Osram that i tested before. The Cree partnr. is XPGDWT-U1-0000-00FE5, according to Cutter.

 

I noticed that the phosfor is rough, rougher even than the S5 70CRI version, and part of the phosfor even seems to block some of the light coming out of the die. Here's a stereo picture, taken from an angle, current at 0.5mA, that shows all that:

 

The test was done like all my more recent emitter tests. I described it in detail in my XP-L test. , with two minor differences that should not matter significantly for the results: I used my Integrating sphere no. II instead of no. I, and for the current I used a clamp meter, which appears to measure 0.1A lower than the power supply current-reading that I used before.

In summary: 1) just one led was tested, reflowed on a DTP copper board (XP-Noctigon 16mm) 2) I used my large version II integrating sphere with high quality luxmeter, 3) the output numbers and voltages were measured with the led close to 'steady state' for each current, so warmed up and settled, you should be able to get these numbers in a well heatsinked flashlight. Mind that these are output numbers of the bare led, in a flashlight there will be losses from light obstructions, lens and optic, 4) output is in 'djozz-lumen' defined as 1/550 of the output of my Sunwayman D40A on high setting, which I hope is close to the real lumen, but at least is consistent over all my emitter tests done in integrating spheres.

 

Here is the result of the test, I plotted the results together with the results of two earlier tests of 4000K 90+CRI leds, the latest 219B V1 from Nichia (which is not that new anymore but the newer 219C never came in 90+ CRI), and the gen.2 Osram Oslon Square (there's a gen.3 Square already but not in 90+CRI yet):

 

Well, if the tint and beam profile of this led is any good it will be the led of choice, this output is outstanding for a 90CRI led !

Here's another chart, comparing the led with the 5000K 83CRI Nichia 219C, and the highest bin 70 CRI XP-G3:

 

So although the voltage of this particular led is slightly higher (0.15V at 4A), the output even matches the lower CRI Nichia 219C, which is considered a great performer.

What I find personally interesting is that with increasing current, the output of the 90+CRI version of the XP-G3 is not a fixed percentage of the 70CRI XP-G3, but it lags behind a bit. This can be because this particular emitter coincidentally has a bit higher thermal resistance, but it could also be caused by a physical behaviour of the different type of phosfor layer.

 

I have build this led into a Convoy S8 host (smooth reflector, plain glass lens) to get a feeling for tint and beam.

  • On a NCR18650PF and BLF-A6 driver, the light puts out OTF just over 1000 lumen at start-up, 925 lumen after 30 seconds, current just under 5A. That is pretty good for a single emitter 90+ CRI light.
  • I'm a bit less enthousiastic about tint and beam. (I will describe this in words because when tints are the subject, I have found that photo's do not reproduce what you see in reality, it is even worse with high CRI light).  The tint is not as rosy as we came to like about the Nichia 4500K 92 CRI 219A and even the 4000K 92 CRI 219B V1. It is more to the yellow side, close to but without the greenish hint that the Oslon Square 4000K 92 CRI has.  The beam has the same artifact as the 70CRI XP-G2 (and the Luxeon Q): a yellowish spill with a spot that looks more blue-ish.
  • But before you all condemn this emitter for that: this is all about white-wall-hunting, in actual use shining at things in and outside the house, the beam is pleasant and I find the colour reproduction very good, and wood tints are reproduced very naturally. I like the led well enough to use it in my next triple build Smile

 

edit the next day: this led seems to give a much better beam behind an aspheric lens, see post #17

Edited by: djozz on 07/29/2016 - 19:55
CRX
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Thanks Beer

pilotdog68
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Very nice, thanks

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

fixed it
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Your testing is beyond awesome, as always. Now I must refrain from looking for a use for those…

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Wow, great job once again! I supposed VOB should be getting these soon. I think it was these that were holding up his Cutter order. I didn't order any because of them not in stock, but I really want to get my hands on a bunch now.

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Good info, even a stereo pic!

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Thanks djozz.

My current and or voltage measurements are only relevent to anything that I measure.

Budget light hobby proudly sponsored by my Mastercard and unknowingly paid for by a hard working wife. 

djozz said "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

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Hope your XM-L3 testing coming soon Wink

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Now I really can’t wait for mine to arrive!

EDC rotation:
Convoy S2+, 6*7135, XM-L2 3D, 10 degree TIR, PilotDog lighted tailcap.
Convoy S2+, H17F, XM-L2 4C, lighted tailcap
Zebralight SC52w-L2
Olight S1A
Olight S1R

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Nice going Djozz. If you end up putting that 5000k in a light, let us know what you think yes?

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I hope these are in-stock in MTN soon. Shipping from Cutter is pricey! Tired

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I have 3 of these on order from the VOB group buy. I plan on building up a triple, possibly a headlight. The output numbers look great. I am disappointed about your description of the tint though. I do love that rosy tint in the early nichias. I wish cree would come out with a hi output Hi CRI “rosy edition”.

I ordered the 5 Bin Tint, R3 Flux. I’m not sure if they are 4000K or 5000K. The 5000K will likely be less yellow and more ideal.

Thanks for posting your findings.

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Thanks for another great test Djozz Beer .

firedome
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Wow nice! Thanks!

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

-Plato

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Thanks mate for the testing.

I have used 4 XPG3 all of them have been drawing around 7 amps. The coating is weird i DE-domed one and left the coating on it looks nice but when the coating is gone the LED is ruined lol

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Thanks, that stereo pic looks so nice!

djozz
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I modded a small aspheric lens zoomie with this led today, and the tint came out completely different, almost as nice as the original Nichia 219A 92CRI ! Is it the different optic or is there an enormous tint variation among these leds?

For a description of the mod, see the ‘what did you mod today’ thread:

http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/980054#comment-980054

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Let me be another to add my thanks. I really had high hopes for these emitters and despite mixed emotions from some I remain hopeful. Excellent work! Thumbs Up

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Thank you for great review.

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Wow! Great stuff! I need to check these out!

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djozz wrote:
I modded a small aspheric lens zoomie with this led today, and the tint came out completely different, almost as nice as the original Nichia 219A 92CRI ! Is it the different optic or is there an enormous tint variation among these leds?

For a description of the mod, see the ‘what did you mod today’ thread:

http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/980054#comment-980054

I think its the different coating and layer’s it has. In some light i made the hotspot is a different colour to the rest of the beam so its like different coloured rings not to noticeable but it is there.

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Well, awesome information indeed cool. My only gripe with regards to all of this is the relative difficulty I've found (at least until now) to get particular beauties like these. Only a handful of led stores provide the kind of specific information (bin code, CRI specification) to sort this out easily (without having to make inquiries).

219B's are consistent and high quality products, you know you can't go wrong with any of them. Maybe Cree should, in a marketing effort, stick a suffix to the name of their leds in order for us consumers to be able to quickly understand the kind of CRI specification the led belongs to. Mmm, a handful of lustful adjectives would be so cool. cool

 

Cheers fellows

Copper is mine, copper divine!

«You may be taught and think for shame to be good but, in fact, a wise master said to me you wouldn't enter the heavens alive before going through your last bit of it.»

         

djozz
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Barkuti wrote:

Well, awesome information indeed cool. My only gripe with regards to all of this is the relative difficulty I’ve found (at least until now) to get particular beauties like these. Only a handful of led stores provide the kind of specific information (bin code, CRI specification) to sort this out easily (without having to make inquiries).


219B’s are consistent and high quality products, you know you can’t go wrong with any of them. Maybe Cree should, in a marketing effort, stick a suffix to the name of their leds in order for us consumers to be able to quickly understand the kind of CRI specification the led belongs to. Mmm, a handful of lustful adjectives would be so cool. cool


 


Cheers fellows


I totally agree, specific neutral/higher CRI leds are hardly anywhere for sale, and if they are it is a lottery what you get (i.e. Aliexpress, Fasttech). Cutter has very good stuff and have ok info on their leds but still incomplete (and shipping is killing buying there), intl-outdoor is very good and reliable but has a limited selection and has not listed new leds since the 219C. Lumitronics in Germany is a bit expensive but sometines has interesting Nichia’s, rs-online is good for the newest Osram leds, and I like their ProLight leds but the information is very incomplete, it takes some research to find out what exact leds they sell. For more mainstream leds I kind of trust Kaidomain for their information.
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Anyone know if RMM or another dealer is planning to stock these?

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djozz wrote:

I totally agree, specific neutral/higher CRI leds are hardly anywhere for sale, and if they are it is a lottery what you get (i.e. Aliexpress, Fasttech). Cutter has very good stuff and have ok info on their leds but still incomplete (and shipping is killing buying there), intl-outdoor is very good and reliable but has a limited selection and has not listed new leds since the 219C. Lumitronics in Germany is a bit expensive but sometines has interesting Nichia's, rs-online is good for the newest Osram leds, and I like their ProLight leds but the information is very incomplete, it takes some research to find out what exact leds they sell. For more mainstream leds I kind of trust Kaidomain for their information.

 

Thanks for the information Glasses . What to look for if trying the high CRI Osrams (name, model, etc)? No idea with regards to this.

Regarding LagTech, of course it took me an inquiry to know what kind of CRI spec the Cree XHP70 M2-7A 1485LM 3000K LED Emitter they stock was: standard CRI Sad . However, I then discovered they were stocking this: Authentic Nichia NVSL219AT 5.25W 113LM White LED Emitter (3-Pack); awesome stuff to custom build a multi-emitter home lamp with beautiful high-CRI light. Thumbs Up

 

Cheers my dears Party

Copper is mine, copper divine!

«You may be taught and think for shame to be good but, in fact, a wise master said to me you wouldn't enter the heavens alive before going through your last bit of it.»

         

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What is the cri of those nichias?

djozz
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LightRider wrote:
What is the cri of those nichias?

I bought a couple of those, they are very cuddly warm white with rosy tint. Most leds in this tint region are above 80CRI, but if it is 90+ I could not say.
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LightRider wrote:
What is the cri of those nichias?

Cheers Party

Copper is mine, copper divine!

«You may be taught and think for shame to be good but, in fact, a wise master said to me you wouldn't enter the heavens alive before going through your last bit of it.»

         

djozz
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If Fasttech is correct (I don’t trust any spec from any product from Fasttech) in that this is the nvsl219at-h1, than this must be the sw27 colour rank, so 2700K.
But frankly, it looks even warmer than that!

djozz
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I made a S2+ triple today with these leds to see how the tint is in a TIR optic. and it is again different but closer to the reflector optic tint; the close to rosy tint with little yellow from the i3 aspheric lens zoomie was not achieved. Not a bad tint though.

Against my principles here’s a white wall shot that compares some lights (I do not show whitewall tint comparisons usually because they do not represent the reality very well, and people still will use the picture to discuss tint).

left the XP-G3 4000K 90CRI in a S8 (reflector light)
middle top the XP-G3 4000K 90CRI in a S2+ triple (TIR optic)
right the XP-G3 4000K 90CRI in a ‘on the road’ i3 (aspheric lens zoomie)
middle bottom Nichia 219A 4500K 92CRI in a solarstorm SC02 quad (TIR optic)

The Nichia shows brown-ish on pictures which is not true, the blue-ish hotspot of the S8 does not show well. But you can see how the i3 light is close to the 219A while the other two builds have a tint more to the yellow side.

vinte77
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Where can you buy XP-G3 4000K 90CRI leds domestically?

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