Texas Avenger "TA" Driver series - Triple channel + Bistro or Narsil + Clicky or E-switch - The Ultimate open source driver!

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Texas_Ace
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Ok, since it appears that these designs have passed the “first round” of BLF critiquing I have now uploaded them to OSHpark with the source files included in the download for anyone that wants to play with it.

I will also be placing an order for them on Sunday or Monday so it anyone spots an issue please do point it out.

I did make some minor changes to the Silk screen on the 17mm version as it was just too tight to be able to read clearly once OSHpark reduced the resolution but otherwise it is unchanged.

I also added a few more minor size variations as you will notice, just for the sake of completeness. If anyone knows of another size that would be useful please do let me know.

Link to OSHpark collection: https://oshpark.com/profiles/Texas_Ace

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

ImA4Wheelr
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They look great at a casual glace. Thank you for the hard work and being so open source. I’ll order some to play around with.

Tom E
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These look great!

At this point, I still need 17/20/22 boards with the proper R3, R4, R5 and C2, simple FET+1, Pin #2 for a switch, pin #3 for an indicator LED. Basically our SRK Q8 driver shrunken. I'm really stuck at this point - dunno what to do...

Not sure if I could do PWM on pin #3 (FET), along with pin #5 (single 7135), but if I could, then maybe I could use pin #6 for the indicator LED - use the thru hole as a pad.

Texas_Ace
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Tom E wrote:

These look great!


At this point, I still need 17/20/22 boards with the proper R3, R4, R5 and C2, simple FET+1, Pin #2 for a switch, pin #3 for an indicator LED. Basically our SRK Q8 driver shrunken. I’m really stuck at this point – dunno what to do…


Not sure if I could do PWM on pin #3 (FET), along with pin #5 (single 7135), but if I could, then maybe I could use pin #6 for the indicator LED – use the thru hole as a pad.

I could rearrange it for the different printout if you needed.

I know you can do PWM on pins 3, 5 and 6 though, and I am pretty sure some of the other pins as well. I know this because it does it in bistro tripledown. Wink

Now how TK managed to do that? I have no clue, I can edit values in code and do minor coding myself but my skills quickly run out after that. You are obviously welcome to take a look at the code and see, I am sure you could figure it out in a hurry.

I am using this pinout simply because that is what the firmware was made around. I would rather build the driver that I can do myself, around the firmware that others would need to build for me.

I would LOVE to have both a Bistro and Narsil firmware available for this driver, allowing for both Clickly and E-switch use and further extending the versatility of the driver.

If you would be interested in making Narsil compatible with this driver let me know if there are any changes I would need to make, if a compromise can be found between it and Bistro allowing both to be used easily that would be epic!

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Texas_Ace
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
They look great at a casual glace. Thank you for the hard work and being so open source. I’ll order some to play around with.

Thanks, I am a big fan of open source for projects like this. I mean I am stealing using the hard work of many many before me, might as well pass on anything I may have added to the pool of knowledge.

Plus I feel that the next step in driver tech will be int he form of buck/boost drivers, I think we have pretty much reached the limits of linear drivers.

Only other thing I would like to do with linear drivers is add a 4th channel as I have seen someone on here do.

This would allow for low, med and high non-PWM modes along with an FET and still have the ability to PWM for whatever additional modes you may want, that is the ultimate that linear drivers will ever reach IMHO when it comes to flashlights.

I don’t have the coding skills to make the firmware happen though and TK is really busy right now so figured I would wait until she was up to figuring out how to use the reset pin.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Tom E
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Texas_Ace wrote:
I could rearrange it for the different printout if you needed. I know you can do PWM on pins 3, 5 and 6 though, and I am pretty sure some of the other pins as well. I know this because it does it in bistro tripledown. Wink Now how TK managed to do that? I have no clue, I can edit values in code and do minor coding myself but my skills quickly run out after that. You are obviously welcome to take a look at the code and see, I am sure you could figure it out in a hurry. I am using this pinout simply because that is what the firmware was made around. I would rather build the driver that I can do myself, around the firmware that others would need to build for me. I would LOVE to have both a Bistro and Narsil firmware available for this driver, allowing for both Clickly and E-switch use and further extending the versatility of the driver. If you would be interested in making Narsil compatible with this driver let me know if there are any changes I would need to make, if a compromise can be found between it and Bistro allowing both to be used easily that would be epic!

Where is Bistro tripledown? Do you have a link? I can't find a link in this OP or your OSHPark page. Just Bistro is listed under TK's repository, and it's from Dec 2015 - think it's the original Bistro. Dunno where else to look.

Only 2 I/O's can support PWM, least at one time. Does she do all PWM on all 3 I/O pins simultaneously? Is there info on this?

 

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Tom E wrote:

Texas_Ace wrote:
I could rearrange it for the different printout if you needed. I know you can do PWM on pins 3, 5 and 6 though, and I am pretty sure some of the other pins as well. I know this because it does it in bistro tripledown. Wink Now how TK managed to do that? I have no clue, I can edit values in code and do minor coding myself but my skills quickly run out after that. You are obviously welcome to take a look at the code and see, I am sure you could figure it out in a hurry. I am using this pinout simply because that is what the firmware was made around. I would rather build the driver that I can do myself, around the firmware that others would need to build for me. I would LOVE to have both a Bistro and Narsil firmware available for this driver, allowing for both Clickly and E-switch use and further extending the versatility of the driver. If you would be interested in making Narsil compatible with this driver let me know if there are any changes I would need to make, if a compromise can be found between it and Bistro allowing both to be used easily that would be epic!

Where is Bistro tripledown? Do you have a link? I can’t find a link in this OP or your OSHPark page. Just Bistro is listed under TK’s repository, and it’s from Dec 2015 – think it’s the original Bistro. Dunno where else to look.


Only 2 I/O’s can support PWM, least at one time. Does she do all PWM on all 3 I/O pins simultaneously? Is there info on this?


 

Yeah, I guess it is time to link to the firmware. Forgot about that in the OP.

It is in the repo but in the tiny25 side of things I guess, I never have figured out exactly how to navigate that repo, I just use different bookmarks to get me close to what I am looking and and navigate from there lol.

Here is a link to the Tiny25 bistro firmware, including the tripledown: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~toykeeper/flashlight-firmware/tiny25/files/...

Far as the PWM, she is indeed doing PWM on all 3 outputs at once, you can setup the modes in the firmware for whatever combo you want.

I read online before talking to her about this and saw others doing this as well. It is apparently a little known feature of the tiny25+ series that is interesting to setup, I did not take the time to understand all the technicality of what they were saying. You can apparently use up to 4 PWM channels at once, just not on certain pins.

One of the drivers I saw posted on here was apparently using PWM on the reset pin as well, forgot which one it was though.

The end point is that TK got it to work, so I know it can be done lol.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Texas_Ace
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Links to firmware and pictures/descriptions added to OP, although keep in mind the A6 firmware was modified to use 3 channels but the basic setup is the same as the description.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Tom E
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Ahh - ok, seems I was wrong. I probably forgot bout this - saw posts on it a while back. Reviewed the Bistro-Tripledown source code just now, and certainly does look like all 3 output channels have PWM's enabled. I'd have to review the code more vs. the 25/45/85 spec sheet to see how it's done.

This is good news for using an indicator LED as well. We could PWM control the output level of the indicator LED, though if you want to do that with the MCU in sleep mode, it might mean keeping the PWM portion "awake", so might contribute to parasitic drain.

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Dr jones uses four PWM channels for his rgbw drivers. He uses the tiny85 though. He hasn’t been around for a while. I’ve been looking for another good firmware for rgbw but there is nothing lik3 his. I hope he stops by and is willing to sell me a few more of his driver.

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Tom E wrote:

Ahh – ok, seems I was wrong. I probably forgot bout this – saw posts on it a while back. Reviewed the Bistro-Tripledown source code just now, and certainly does look like all 3 output channels have PWM’s enabled. I’d have to review the code more vs. the 25/45/85 spec sheet to see how it’s done.


This is good news for using an indicator LED as well. We could PWM control the output level of the indicator LED, though if you want to do that with the MCU in sleep mode, it might mean keeping the PWM portion “awake”, so might contribute to parasitic drain.

Yep, that should be entirely possible and would be a good addition to the Q8 if it is not too late for that.

LightRider wrote:
Dr jones uses four PWM channels for his rgbw drivers. He uses the tiny85 though. He hasn’t been around for a while. I’ve been looking for another good firmware for rgbw but there is nothing lik3 his. I hope he stops by and is willing to sell me a few more of his driver.

Yep, that was the one I saw doing it. I would love to copy the 4 channels like his in these drivers if TK / someone was up to making the firmware for it. The changes to the drivers would not be that hard, simply move one of the 7135’s to the reset pin.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Texas_Ace
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I am in the process of putting together a 4S driver for the SRK. I have a few projects that would need/use 2s/4s design so figure might as well go 4s since all the XHP’s can be run in both 6v or 12v mode.

I am laying out the Schematic, but having a hard time figuring out how the R5 and C2 components should be placed with the LDO.

The LDO needs a 2.2uf+ cap on the output wire anyways, could I simply replace C2 with a larger value and it do the duty of both the LDO and C2? If I add a second cap would it interfere with C2? I figure we would use a 10uf cap for the LDO, would the extra size negatively effect the role of C2?

I assume the R5 should remain as the first thing in the + side of the circuit.

DEL, any comments?

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Tom E
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Yea, Dr J can save an I/O pin by not using the voltage divider resistors and using the internal 1.1v source instead. Neat trick, and I/O pins are in very short supply... Could be then 4 pins can support PWM.  yea, look'n over the datasheet, I see a 4th possible PWM channel.

TK uses Timer/Counter 0 for pins #5 and #6, and Timer/Counter 1 channel B for pin #3, and it looks like it can support another channel (A) for PWM.

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46mm Skyray King 4S 12V XHP Driver

This one is not a Texas Avenger series of driver simply because at these voltages the 7135 would not be good for anything but moon mode. But it has the same basic setup and I am putting it here anyways lol.

It is a classic SRK driver but setup for 4S 12V LED’s (or 4 LED’s in series). So this is what you want for an XHP35 / XHP50 conversion. It is pretty basic and sparse on the board, if anyone has something creative/funny to put on the silk screen feel free to let me know, got lots of room on the silk left.

Parts list is the same as above except the C2 change along with the LDO addition.

R1 : 220k
R2 : 47k
R3 : 100 k
R4 : 47 ohm
R5 : 4.7 ohm
R6 & R7 : Unused at this time, installed for future expansion options.

C1 : 10 uF
C2 : 10 uF

E-Switch : Momentary switch

LDO : SOT-23-5 form factor 5V LDO of choice, designed around MIC5235-5.0BM5
U1 : Attiny85 for Narsil, Attiny13A for Star momentary
U2 : LFPAK56 MOSFET (mosfet is the technical name, we call them FET around here)

The resisters are all 0603 package.

The caps are 0805 form factor.

Oshpark link : Removed




The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Texas_Ace
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Tom E wrote:

Yea, Dr J can save an I/O pin by not using the voltage divider resistors and using the internal 1.1v source instead. Neat trick, and I/O pins are in very short supply… Could be then 4 pins can support PWM.  yea, look’n over the datasheet, I see a 4th possible PWM channel.


TK uses Timer/Counter 0 for pins #5 and #6, and Timer/Counter 1 channel B for pin #3, and it looks like it can support another channel (A) for PWM.

That was another thing I was curious about, it would make these drivers in particular WAY easier to fit without having the external voltage devider but I assume without the external divider it would be limited to a 1s setup correct?

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

ImA4Wheelr
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Texas_Ace wrote:
I am in the process of putting together a 4S driver for the SRK. I have a few projects that would need/use 2s/4s design so figure might as well go 4s since all the XHP’s can be run in both 6v or 12v mode.

I am laying out the Schematic, but having a hard time figuring out how the R5 and C2 components should be placed with the LDO.

The LDO needs a 2.2uf+ cap on the output wire anyways, could I simply replace C2 with a larger value and it do the duty of both the LDO and C2? If I add a second cap would it interfere with C2? I figure we would use a 10uf cap for the LDO, would the extra size negatively effect the role of C2?

I assume the R5 should remain as the first thing in the + side of the circuit.

DEL, any comments?

Just a amateur hack here, so please don’t take my statements to follow as fact. I would think the LDO will drastically change the situation. Check out the data sheet for your LDO. I’m fond of using the LM2936 and it recommends a 10uF Cap on the output pin. Check out this diagram from it’s data sheet:

The LM2936 data sheet has no limitation on the cap size, just a minimum. It also recommends a certain ESR. A .5 to 1 ohm resistor in series with a typical SMD Cap will accomplish that for the LM2936. Here you can see I have 20uF in caps a 4.7uF resistor (Way to high, was just trying it out) on DD driver for 4S cells. I used 47K (R1) and 4.7K ohm (R2) resistors on the voltage divider.

The LM2936 is way too big for our drivers (can handle 40v on input). Just giving a for example case for you to think about.

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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
Just a amateur hack here, so please don’t take my statements to follow as fact. I would think the LDO will drastically change the equations. Check out the data sheet for your LDO. I’m fond of using the LM2936 and it recommends a 10uF Cap on the output pin. check out this diagram from it’s data sheet:

The data sheet has no limitation on the cap size, just a minimum. It also recommends a certain ESR. A .5 to 1 ohm resistor in series with a typical SMD Cap will accomplish that for the LM2936. Here you can see I have 20uF in caps a 4.7uF resistor (Way to high, was just trying it out) on DD driver for 4S cells. I used 47K (R1) and 4.7K ohm (R2) resistors on the voltage divider.

I figured it would effect things a fair amount but I am not sure how exactly. I guess one thing I didn’t take into account is the 5V output will change things a bit.

I figure a 10uf cap in the place of C2 will accomplish the cap needed for the LDO along with the C2. I have no facts to back that up though.

I obviously have plenty of room to add a resistor to the C2 cap if needed, I can add the pads easy enough and test later of course.

Any other suggestions? I just tossed this together real quick cause I was bored and didn’t want to spend a lot of time on it.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

DEL
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TA, keep the small resistor in front of the first capacitor. I would guess a 10 ohm or so would be ideal. You may even go higher since you have voltage to spare with a multi-S setup. The active regulator does change things, but I expect the ringing to be still there without this R.

You are OK with only the Cout of the LDO, depending on how close to the MCU it ends up. If you do have the space, a 0.1 to 1 uF C2 would be a nice to have.

You may need to bump up Cin to at least 2.2 uF, to prevent the LDO from seeing the FET turn-off spikes. This is where a resistor larger than 10 ohms can help.

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I’m not recommending you put a resistor in front of C2. That will depend on your LDO. For the LM2936, it is critical. What LDO do you plan on using?

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Whoah!!!! I just saw this build and link on OSHPark…

HOLY SMOKES that’s awesome!!!!!!!!

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Texas_Ace wrote:
Ok, since it appears that these designs have passed the “first round” of BLF critiquing I have now uploaded them to OSHpark with the source files included in the download for anyone that wants to play with it.

I will also be placing an order for them on Sunday or Monday so it anyone spots an issue please do point it out.

I did make some minor changes to the Silk screen on the 17mm version as it was just too tight to be able to read clearly once OSHpark reduced the resolution but otherwise it is unchanged.

I also added a few more minor size variations as you will notice, just for the sake of completeness. If anyone knows of another size that would be useful please do let me know.

Link to OSHpark collection: https://oshpark.com/profiles/Texas_Ace

!{width:50%}https://644db4de3505c40a0444-327723bce298e3ff5813fb42baeefbaa.ssl.cf1.ra...!


17 (covered), 20, 22mm variants are “the norm”
Man…so awesome!
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
I’m not recommending you put a resistor in front of C2. That will depend on your LDO. For the LM2936, it is critical. What LDO do you plan on using?

DEL wrote:
TA, keep the small resistor in front of the first capacitor. I would guess a 10 ohm or so would be ideal. You may even go higher since you have voltage to spare with a multi-S setup. The active regulator does change things, but I expect the ringing to be still there without this R.

You are OK with only the Cout of the LDO, depending on how close to the MCU it ends up. If you do have the space, a 0.1 to 1 uF C2 would be a nice to have.

You may need to bump up Cin to at least 2.2 uF, to prevent the LDO from seeing the FET turn-off spikes. This is where a resistor larger than 10 ohms can help.

It actually hit me this morning a FAR simpler and more efficient way of doing a 2s or 4s setup in a SRK. Kinda hard to explain but I will knock out a prototype setup and see what people think.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

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My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

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WarHawk-AVG wrote:
Whoah!!!! I just saw this build and link on OSHPark…

HOLY SMOKES that’s awesome!!!!!!!!

Thanks! been wanting to do this for a long time but just never had the time.

If TomE decides to make a Narsil for this type of driver that would truly complete my goal for these save for adding a 4th channel to the reset pin if that is even possible.

WarHawk-AVG wrote:
17 (covered), 20, 22mm variants are “the norm” Man…so awesome!

Yep, got all those sizes take care of along with a few variations of them as well. Also a 26mm that can be sanded down to ~23mm or so if needed.

I might measure the S70 and L6 drivers along with the DO1 and knock out some in those sizes as well just in case someone wants to swap those out as well, but those would need new firmware to be able to use the e-switch.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

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This leaves me with the second “issue” for a 4S SRK driver. I would really prefer NOT use an FET with a multi-cell setup. You loose so much efficiency doing that I just find it a waste, plus it is real hard to control current to what you want.

What I really want is a buck driver. I have done exactly zero research into buck drivers for flashlight use.

I know the RMM has a nice buck driver with good specs, a single coil would not hack it but using them either in parallel or multiples of them with each feeding a single LED would work.

Anyone have any good suggestions on components for a 2S & 4S (would prefer to use components that can do either with resistor swaps ect) driver?

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

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Texas_Ace wrote:
It actually hit me this morning a FAR simpler and more efficient way of doing a 2s or 4s setup in a SRK. Kinda hard to explain but I will knock out a prototype setup and see what people think.

Maybe pull the power for the MCU at 4.2v before the series connection?

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

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Texas_Ace wrote:
This leaves me with the second “issue” for a 4S SRK driver. I would really prefer NOT use an FET with a multi-cell setup. You loose so much efficiency doing that I just find it a waste, plus it is real hard to control current to what you want.

What I really want is a buck driver. I have done exactly zero research into buck drivers for flashlight use.

I know the RMM has a nice buck driver with good specs, a single coil would not hack it but using them either in parallel or multiples of them with each feeding a single LED would work.

Anyone have any good suggestions on components for a 2S & 4S (would prefer to use components that can do either with resistor swaps ect) driver?

Yeah, controlling current is a down side if you want less than the cells can deliver to the emitters, but I would think a FET driver would be pretty efficient. Well, other than driving emitters at a high level that is inefficient (due to the emitter’s design) when the cells are fully charged. Maybe you’re thinking about the inefficiency of the 7135 linear regulators when the cells are full?

A typical buck regulator like we use is about 80% efficient when driven hard. Almost all our buck drivers use the same Chinese buck converter (forget name at the moment). These buck converters are fine driving with 2S, 3S, and 4S cells. They will work with 1S cells, but not deliver much current due to lack of voltage overhead. Same with driving 6v of emitters with 2S cells or a 12v of emitters with 4S. Probably will not get much if any regulated run time.

A buck will work nicely for driving a 6v of emitters with 4S or 3v of emitters with 2S or 4S. Then you enough voltage overhead for decent regulated run time.

The HX-1175b driver is cheap enough to be a good donner for components. It has terrible parasitic drain though.

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pilotdog68 wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
It actually hit me this morning a FAR simpler and more efficient way of doing a 2s or 4s setup in a SRK. Kinda hard to explain but I will knock out a prototype setup and see what people think.
Maybe pull the power for the MCU at 4.2v before the series connection?

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner!

This seems like the easiest method for a side by side cell setup by far. No worries about any of the LDO’s, zeners ect.

Here is a quick proto-type I knocked out to visualize it.

The ring on the outside is connected to the 1st cell to give you 4.2V to anything connected to that ground plane.

The FET / 7135 / Buck driver grounds to the 4S negative terminal. Thus giving the LED 16.8V.


The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

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More I think about, it seems quite easy to update Narsil to support this triple output. Between what I know, and code, in bistro_tripledown to enable the 3 PWM channels, and TK's level_calc utility for generating the ramping table, that seems to support 3 outputs, I should be able to come up with a pretty good smooth ramping, then the fixed modes look pretty easy to update.

For ramping, it will be different tables, depending on 350 or 380 7135's. I prefer a 350 for the single because of it's lower moon mode, but for the 6 7135 bank, it doesn't matter, but will need to know (I think) what they are when the table is generated. You can also easily tell it how big you want the ramping table assuming a 16 msec update rate. So if you want a full ramp to take 1.5 secs, or 2.5 secs, you can control that via how many entries to spec when you run level_calc, then it's easy to confogure Narsil to match it. I experimented a lot with different table generations til I got, what I felt, looked real good -- this would take a lot of time again, I'm sure, but might go quicker for me now, knowing it a bit better.

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I think it’s worth your time, Tom. As long as you don’t mind giving up your indicator LED.

Having a Medium/High/whatever you call it mode that is a consistent pwm-less level no matter the state of charge is really nice. It always annoyed me that my medium modes (the ones I use most) would “droop” so much as my battery wears down when using the FET.

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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
Yeah, controlling current is a down side if you want less than the cells can deliver to the emitters, but I would think a FET driver would be pretty efficient. Well, other than driving emitters at a high level that is inefficient (due to the emitter’s design) when the cells are fully charged. Maybe you’re thinking about the inefficiency of the 7135 linear regulators when the cells are full?

A typical buck regulator like we use is about 80% efficient when driven hard. Almost all our buck drivers use the same Chinese buck converter (forget name at the moment). These buck converters are fine driving with 2S, 3S, and 4S cells. They will work with 1S cells, but not deliver much current due to lack of voltage overhead. Same with driving 6v of emitters with 2S cells or a 12v of emitters with 4S. Probably will not get much if any regulated run time.

A buck will work nicely for driving a 6v of emitters with 4S or 3v of emitters with 2S or 4S. Then you enough voltage overhead for decent regulated run time.

The HX-1175b driver is cheap enough to be a good donner for components. It has terrible parasitic drain though.

Current control is very hard for sure, particularly at 4s voltages where you have enough overhead voltage to drive a single emitter at almost 200 watts if you let it flow freely!

That can be “controlled” though with PWM, this leads to the actual issue I was talking about when I said efficiency. The FET is indeed quite efficient, no worries there.

My issue is the LED efficiency when using PWM to adjust the current. You loose a LOT of output doing this along with a LOT more heat. For example Dale was able to get 2200 lumens from an XHP35 using what I assume was an FET driver and he said that was all it had.

Acebeam on the other hand are able to get 2600 lumens in the K70 in what I am sure is a setup that leaves a bit of wiggle room for more. I am positive they are using a Buck driver and this explains the extra output. They are also not using the latest XHP35 that cutter is selling I am sure as well and these numbers fall better in line with what I would expect from a properly driven XHP.

I know I am preaching to the choir about this but for those that do not understand, basically with a 4s setup an FET starts dropping the LED’s efficiency so you don’t get as many lumens per watt and it runs hotter as well. The change can be quite drastic as well.

I am not worried about regulated output, I just want the best output for a 6V or 12V LED possible.

Now, far as components, does anyone know the parts list for : http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=67_11...

Or is that a closed source driver? Those parts/specs x4 on a Q8 would make for a killer driver IMO. Might need to rework the MCPCB to allow connecting each LED individually but that might even be able to be added to the design before it is finalized.

Are there any buck converters that would allow for ~4A of driver current at 4s voltages and work work in a setup like this?

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

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