Texas Avenger "TA" Driver series - Triple channel + Bistro or Narsil + Clicky or E-switch - The Ultimate open source driver!

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mozart.f
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Texas_Ace wrote:
mozart.f wrote:
Texas_Ace I edited my post in the same time that you replied it. I intend to use the zener as I already have then. I respect your work, and understand that these boards will be widely accepted here at BLF. Keep the inspired work.

In answer to your edited question. RMM uses the zener to deal with the voltage spike issue that happens with high currents in the FET. The zener would bleed the voltage spike off keeping the MCU from seeing it.

Since these drivers are using DEL’s updated schematic this is not an issue for these drivers in theory. The new parts fix the voltage spike from happening.

So you can use the zener if desired but they should not be needed.

I put them on the driver simply because I wanted a driver that could do everything, including multi-cell setups.

Now I see the point. Thanks once more.

Tom E
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Plus the zeners bump up parasitic drain on e-switch lights. I've been pulling them off, using the 4.7 ohm resistor instead, before the diode - has to be jury rigged in, however.

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Great drivers and good topic. I’m not in programming but this maybe change my mind to build myself the drivers.

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Great drivers and good topic. I’m not in programming but this maybe change my mind to build myself the drivers.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
mozart.f wrote:
Texas_Ace I edited my post in the same time that you replied it. I intend to use the zener as I already have then. I respect your work, and understand that these boards will be widely accepted here at BLF. Keep the inspired work.

In answer to your edited question. RMM uses the zener to deal with the voltage spike issue that happens with high currents in the FET. The zener would bleed the voltage spike off keeping the MCU from seeing it.

Since these drivers are using DEL’s updated schematic this is not an issue for these drivers in theory. The new parts fix the voltage spike from happening.

So you can use the zener if desired but they should not be needed.

I put them on the driver simply because I wanted a driver that could do everything, including multi-cell setups.


Thank you for the explanation. This has been bugging me for a while.
mozart.f
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LightRider wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
mozart.f wrote:
Texas_Ace I edited my post in the same time that you replied it. I intend to use the zener as I already have then. I respect your work, and understand that these boards will be widely accepted here at BLF. Keep the inspired work.

In answer to your edited question. RMM uses the zener to deal with the voltage spike issue that happens with high currents in the FET. The zener would bleed the voltage spike off keeping the MCU from seeing it.

Since these drivers are using DEL’s updated schematic this is not an issue for these drivers in theory. The new parts fix the voltage spike from happening.

So you can use the zener if desired but they should not be needed.

I put them on the driver simply because I wanted a driver that could do everything, including multi-cell setups.


Thank you for the explanation. This has been bugging me for a while.

For me too. Interesting stuff. Ordered some 17mm and 20mm boards.

Texas_Ace
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Glad that explanation helped ya’ll!

As Tom said, the zener is not the best idea for an E-switch light unless you can lock it out when not in use / have dual switches. It will slowly drain the battery even with the light off unless you lock out the light somehow.

As an example I have another driver using the classic parts list and I tried using it in a triple 219C. Well it works fine until it tries to engage the FET, then it goes wonky and shuts down. Seeing as these drivers have worked fine with lower current builds I am pretty sure this is due to the voltage spike although I didn’t put it on the scope to verify.

This is part of the reason I wanted to build these drivers, this way I can have it all in a single design that can be used with basically any light I desire.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Texas_Ace
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Be sure to post if you order the boards and how they work out for you! I want to catch any possible issues early on, plus I am curious what people think of them once they start being used.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

LightRider
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I ordered some boards and they are arriving today. What solder bridges do I need to look out for?

Texas_Ace
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LightRider wrote:
I ordered some boards and they are arriving today. What solder bridges do I need to look out for?

Well assuming that your solder mask is aligned properly, the only one I noticed was the via that was right below one of the back side 7135 grounds. Just make sure you don’t use too much solder paste on that ground and you should be fine. The latest boards have the via moved to eliminate this possible issue.

Obviously look the boards over carefully to make sure the mask is properly aligned as well.

Other then that just be careful to not use too much solder paste on anything, it doesn’t take much to get a good connection. With tightly packed boards such as this, less is more when it comes to solder. It is a lot easier to add more then to remove it.

Let me know how it goes!

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Tom E
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Not sure if it makes much difference, but I always believed the 7135's grnd connection is both for an electrical and thermal connection, so the grnd pads should be as big as can be. Out traditional stacking didn't help heat flow much, but I made sure I always did the front center pin and back tab when stacking. DEL believes the thermal use is important as well, and had PD68 expand the 7135 grnd pads. Your board, specially the 17's, are jam packed, so I dunno if you got room to make them much bigger. Just fyi...

Texas_Ace
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Tom E wrote:

Not sure if it makes much difference, but I always believed the 7135’s grnd connection is both for an electrical and thermal connection, so the grnd pads should be as big as can be. Out traditional stacking didn’t help heat flow much, but I made sure I always did the front center pin and back tab when stacking. DEL believes the thermal use is important as well, and had PD68 expand the 7135 grnd pads. Your board, specially the 17’s, are jam packed, so I dunno if you got room to make them much bigger. Just fyi…

Yeah, the ground pads are indeed for heat sinking as well.

The pads fully cover all the pin that sticks out past the body as it is, the issue is extending it to the “center” of the 7135 would cut the current trace. I could possibly extended it down ever so slightly but I highly doubt it would make any difference as it would be a minute change.

The big copper trace under the 7135’s also acts as a heat sink as well, even if not directly soldered to it.

My thinking was that the 7135’s in drivers like the 105C, SRK or even the Q8 with basically no heat sinking at all work properly, not to mention all the stacked 7135’s out there. Even with running 2S they seem to work fine.

So I figure with all the copper running under and around them combined with the ground being directly connected to the pill via solder/retaining ring ideally, I think it should be ok.

I just built a convoy L2 and let it run on the 7135’s for a few mins and it had no issues.

If people really think it will be an issue I could try to redesign it to have a full ground pad but it will have basically no spring pad and it will be UGLY when it comes to trace setup and have basically no trace width for the current trace.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Tom E
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I don't have the direct experiences with the heat issues of 7135's, but from the practical side, I thought O-L has proven it, and from the theory side, DEL feels strongly about it, and there was lots in-between with discussions on it over the years here. 

O-L actually built at least one modded light up when using extra banks of 7135's, mounting them on separate PCB's with added heat sinks, to avoid the stacking heat problems. I don't think he would have done that without direct knowledge, and I seem to recall it solved his problems he had with stacking for the mod originally. I recall the photo in my head, but can't remember the mod thread. I do know the one specific light the mod thread was on, Daylighter ended up with the flashlight.

I thought the 7135's don't fail, just result in loss's of amps when hot. There's some threads on it if you search for 7136 heat, etc., but probably more you can't find so easy in a search.

 

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Tom E wrote:

I don’t have the direct experiences with the heat issues of 7135’s, but from the practical side, I thought O-L has proven it, and from the theory side, DEL feels strongly about it, and there was lots in-between with discussions on it over the years here. 


O-L actually built at least one modded light up when using extra banks of 7135’s, mounting them on separate PCB’s with added heat sinks, to avoid the stacking heat problems. I don’t think he would have done that without direct knowledge, and I seem to recall it solved his problems he had with stacking for the mod originally. I recall the photo in my head, but can’t remember the mod thread. I do know the one specific light the mod thread was on, Daylighter ended up with the flashlight.


I thought the 7135’s don’t fail, just result in loss’s of amps when hot. There’s some threads on it if you search for 7136 heat, etc., but probably more you can’t find so easy in a search.


 

Yeah, I did a lot of reading on those issues before designing these. I came to the conclusion that for a 1s setup as long as the driver is connected to the flashlight well and the ground is on the outside of the driver, that things should work well.

The 105C being used for years and working fine with basically zero heat sinking at all was what kind settled it for me. Even with running 2s many threads said that it worked without an issue.

These have better heat sinking then a 105, so I see no reason it would not work as well as they do?

Or do the 105c’s have issues I am not aware of?

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

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Apparently they have built-in throttling when too hot, but I thought the consensus was if you have direct ground ring contact, you’re fine. You only have problems with stacked chips amd floating boards

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

Texas_Ace
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pilotdog68 wrote:
Apparently they have built-in throttling when too hot, but I thought the consensus was if you have direct ground ring contact, you’re fine. You only have problems with stacked chips amd floating boards

That was what I had come to the conclusion of when reading old threads on the topic.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

DEL
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For the 7135s you should be fine if you are on the ring.

On the Q8 driver it sits in the middle. It is also a kind of a worst case 1S application since 4 cells with one 7135 does not droop much and in addition the Vf is low with 4 emitters sharing the current.

Tom E
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DEL - I thought the pad sizes were somewhat important? Also the middle pin of the 3 not connected?

 

Ohh - posted in the L6 thread. If the 30mm would have LDO support, I'd definitely be ordering and using them for L6's. In fact I'd buy another L6 just because of the driver w/LDO smile. I'm really only interested in LDO, not zener. You could use a zener of course, then have the extra drain if you don't turn it off on the tail. I got a few Y3's around, and some other dual switch lights - need to do some testing w/Narsil dual switch...

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Texas_Ace wrote:
I just built a convoy L2 and let it run on the 7135’s for a few mins and it had no issues.
That’s what I thought when I did my last L6 driver mod: FET+1 and 105C as slave. It worked well and then a I did a runtime check with 9× 7135 only. Was very surprised, it ran so long as if my Keeppower 5200 had a capacity of far more then 6000 mAh (like the Trustfires Wink ). I did some measurements and found out the 7135s reduced output after 10 seconds and pulled 30% less current due to the heat. Wasn’t directly visible though.
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Hi Tom!

The spring-side 7135s on TA’s drivers have their tabs all on the ground ring. That is a nice big ‘pad’ and there is thermal contact with the host as a bonus. (The PCB artwork may be misleading, but it is only solder resist defining the pads for 7135 tabs – there is one big ring of copper underneath connecting all those 7135s. Please correct me if I am wrong TA…). The internal side 7135 similarly has a good copper area as well.

For the pin 2, I would solder them down in principle. But electrically it is the same as the thermal tab and the thermal tab has priority if it is not feasible to solder both.

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I’m preparing the parts to mount one Texas Avenger 20mm board to my Courui D01, replacing the existing FET+1 driver that I conected to the Courui striped original driver board. I intend to use the TA driver with the attiny85 (e-switch) and narsil. My question is: is the original narsil compatible with triple channel boards or there is a triple channel ready version? Help please.

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No, not yet. Dunno when right now. I got in 22mm boards, but didn't get a chance to reflow one up, or look at the Narsil mods to do it.

 

Thanks DEL! I have the 22 mm boards, and didn't think the pads looks that big, plus no pad for the middle pin.

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Tom E wrote:

No, not yet. Dunno when right now. I got in 22mm boards, but didn’t get a chance to reflow one up, or look at the Narsil mods to do it.


 


Thanks DEL! I have the 22 mm boards, and didn’t think the pads looks that big, plus no pad for the middle pin.

Tom E wow, that was an instant reply.
As TA boards could became an universal design to be adapted to different setups, an triple channel narsil firmware would be of great value. Hope that you can develop a version asap. Thanks.

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I’ve been trying to follow this but I simply can’t keep up with it all.

I don’t know enough to even know how much I don’t know on the driver end of all this.

That said, I LOVE what I am seeing here with a killer new driver design from Texas Ace! Help from DEL and Tom E working to bring Narsil to the table just brings it all home. Grad

This is what BLF is all about. Thumbs Up Well done on all sides. BeerBeerBeer

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Tom E wrote:

Ohh – posted in the L6 thread. If the 30mm would have LDO support, I’d definitely be ordering and using them for L6’s. In fact I’d buy another L6 just because of the driver w/LDO smile. I’m really only interested in LDO, not zener. You could use a zener of course, then have the extra drain if you don’t turn it off on the tail. I got a few Y3’s around, and some other dual switch lights – need to do some testing w/Narsil dual switch…

Yeah, I saw that. As I said over there I simply streched out the normal TA driver to 30mm in order to have a driver large enough for basically any light made and allowing it to be sanded down to fit anything smaller. I just picked 30mm because it was a round number and happened to fit the L6.

I was not aware that Narsil supported dual switches so I didn’t really consider changing anything for the L6 in particular. Now that I know it does I could make up a set of drivers with an LDO option as well. What is your preferred LDO?

The real issue with the LDO that I ran into when designing the 4s SRK driver is how would it fit into the new parts layout from DEL? I could not figure out where it should go in the layout. I am guessing the smallest driver that it would be able to fit on would be ~22mm and that could be tight.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Tom E
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Yea, gonna have to git it dun smile. Gonna go downstairs and reflow one now, actually...

 

I'll check what LDO's I got - weird, just checked MtnE and he doesn't sell them, least now... Thought I got them there - could be Mouser, where a part # was posted somewhere...

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Flashy Mike wrote:
That’s what I thought when I did my last L6 driver mod: FET+1 and 105C as slave. It worked well and then a I did a runtime check with 9× 7135 only. Was very surprised, it ran so long as if my Keeppower 5200 had a capacity of far more then 6000 mAh (like the Trustfires Wink ). I did some measurements and found out the 7135s reduced output after 10 seconds and pulled 30% less current due to the heat. Wasn’t directly visible though.

The 105C as a slave is what your problem would be it sounds like. A floating 7135 will have overheating issues, particularly in a 2s setup. Since these drivers are inherently designed to not need to be used as slaves this should not be an issue in theory based on results I have seen from others.

I could be wrong though, Once I get some screws to screw down the LED (my host didn’t come with them oddly and don’t want to run it too long without them), I will do a proper test to see if they are reducing output. I was watching the lumen drop over ~5 mins with the 7135’s though and it only dropped what I expected from the heat.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Texas_Ace
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DEL wrote:
Hi Tom!

The spring-side 7135s on TA’s drivers have their tabs all on the ground ring. That is a nice big ‘pad’ and there is thermal contact with the host as a bonus. (The PCB artwork may be misleading, but it is only solder resist defining the pads for 7135 tabs – there is one big ring of copper underneath connecting all those 7135s. Please correct me if I am wrong TA…). The internal side 7135 similarly has a good copper area as well.

For the pin 2, I would solder them down in principle. But electrically it is the same as the thermal tab and the thermal tab has priority if it is not feasible to solder both.

Yep, you are exactly correct, the 7135’s are all directly connected to the ground ring that is as wide as possible to heat sink them directly to the flashlight body.

I also would like to solder all the pins, I tried at first but it just wasn’t happening on the small drivers and the large ones are a lot cleaner if I don’t, not even sure how I would to be honest.

Do you know off hand where in the schematic I would add in an LDO BTW? I can add it but not sure how to keep everything working optimally with it being an optional component.

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Texas_Ace
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Tom E wrote:

No, not yet. Dunno when right now. I got in 22mm boards, but didn’t get a chance to reflow one up, or look at the Narsil mods to do it.


 


Thanks DEL! I have the 22 mm boards, and didn’t think the pads looks that big, plus no pad for the middle pin.

I look forward to seeing narsil made compatible with triple channel drivers but after all the work on the Q8 you deserve a break. Take your time (just don’t forget us entirely lol).

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320

How I made a True integrating PVC sphere with no math involved

Tom E
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Ohh - sorry - looked over the pads again compared to a 7135 - they do look pretty big. Ok, I'm sold! Time to make a board...

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