Lets Talk Tints

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WalkIntoTheLight
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Aggressor wrote:
teacher wrote:
Aggressor, are you saying the colors we see in the pictures now may not have been the same as the colors our eyes would have actually seen the moment the pictures were taken??

And this could be adjusted, in a way the pictures would accurately represent what our eyes actually see at the moment the picture is taken; by setting ‘White Balance’ & adjusting colors with the Color Reference Chart???

Am I anywhere close to semi-understanding this or am I still wandering around in “left field” lost??? Wink

Thanks in advance………. Thumbs Up

Yes, that’s exactly right.

Except that simply adjusting white balance would have been good enough for light sources like Sun and incandescent bulb, while for light sources like LED using Color Reference Chart is required to get correct colors.

And to complicate things even more, a camera’s sensor and your computer’s monitor can not reproduce the full color space that your eyes can see. For example, a red-green-blue sensor or screen (which is almost every one), can not capture a true yellow, such as a dandelion flower. The best it can do is reproduce a slightly green version of yellow. Your eyes will see a more vibrant/true yellow flower in real life.

Aggressor
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teacher wrote:
I have moved in from “wandering around lost in deep left field” to just semi-confused in shallow left. Smile
Smile

Perhaps one of those days I will write a post properly explaining the whole situation with light and color, there is enormous amount of confusion in this area. It is not an easy subject to explain…

sidecross
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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:

And to complicate things even more, a camera’s sensor and your computer’s monitor can not reproduce the full color space that your eyes can see. For example, a red-green-blue sensor or screen (which is almost every one), can not capture a true yellow, such as a dandelion flower. The best it can do is reproduce a slightly green version of yellow. Your eyes will see a more vibrant/true yellow flower in real life.

+1

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

gamezawy
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4C is my favorite and ofc the nichia 90 cri, dedomed 1A looks very good too

teacher
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Aggressor wrote:
teacher wrote:
I have moved in from “wandering around lost in deep left field” to just semi-confused in shallow left. Smile
Smile

Perhaps one of those days I will write a post properly explaining the whole situation with light and color, there is enormous amount of confusion in this area. It is not an easy subject to explain…


That would be good. Thumbs Up

This is a good thread with a lot of good info so far. A big “thank you” to jon_slider, Aggressor, WalkIntoTheLight, techieman33, stephenk, and anyone else that has had provided knowledgeable input… it is appreciated. Smile

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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sidecross
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I have two Convoy L6 lights a N2-3A and a N2-3C; both are 5000K lights. I checked them both last night outside and inside and with my eyes could not discern a noticeable difference.

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

teacher
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sidecross wrote:
I have two Convoy L6 lights a N2-3A and a N2-3C; both are 5000K lights. I checked them both last night outside and inside and with my eyes could not discern a noticeable difference.

That makes sense to me. 3A & 3C are on either side of the 5000K line and above & below the BBL (broken line)
They pretty much look the same on the chart also…. “pretty much” being the operative words. Wink

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

sidecross
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teacher wrote:
sidecross wrote:
I have two Convoy L6 lights a N2-3A and a N2-3C; both are 5000K lights. I checked them both last night outside and inside and with my eyes could not discern a noticeable difference.

That makes sense to me. 3A & 3C are on either side of the 5000K line and above & below the BBL (broken line)
They pretty much look the same on the chart also…. “pretty much” being the operative words. Wink

!{width:100%}http://toykeeper.net/torches/cree-tints.jpg!


+1

The chart provided has been a great help in my understanding of tints and color temperature. Smile

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

teacher
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sidecross wrote:

+1
The chart provided has been a great help in my understanding of tints and color temperature. Smile

It has to me also ‘sidecross’, once I learned how to read & understand it. FacepalmWink

I almost hate to admit this, but it is true. Quite a while back, just about the time I ran across this chart and was trying to make sense of it; I bought three Convoy S2+‘s each with a CREE XM-L2 emitter in a different tint.

I got one of each of the one’s below, a different color S2+ for each tint:
  • Blue Convoy U2 1A – Cool White
  • Green Convoy T6 3B – Neutral White
  • Red Convoy T4 7A – Warm White

Then along with this chart and the “visual aid” being able to actually see first hand the difference in the tints… I finally began to understand.
Kinda sad I had to go to such lengths to actually understand…. but at least it worked for me. Wink

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

sidecross
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teacher wrote:
It has to me also ‘sidecross’, once I learned how to read & understand it. FacepalmWink

I almost hate to admit this, but it is true. Quite a while back, just about the time I ran across this chart and was trying to make sense of it; I bought three Convoy S2+‘s each with a CREE XM-L2 emitter in a different tint.

I got one of each of the one’s below, a different color S2+ for each tint:
  • Blue Convoy U2 1A – Cool White
  • Green Convoy T6 3B – Neutral White
  • Red Convoy T4 7A – Warm White

Then along with this chart and the “visual aid” being able to actually see first hand the difference in the tints… I finally began to understand.
Kinda sad I had to go to such lengths to actually understand…. but at least it worked for me. Wink


+1

There are many ways to learn; your way had the benefit to include having new flashlights. Smile

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

teacher
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sidecross wrote:

+1

There are many ways to learn; your way had the benefit to include having new flashlights. Smile


Yep, the “visual aids” just kinda made it real. And, like you said; “new flashlights” were required to make that happen. Wink
Probably part of my ‘sub conscious’ master plan…….. FacepalmWink

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

ven
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I like variety Big Smile , close up work or uses then nichia 218b and 219c work well for me, the former at home and work, the latter again the same. For my work uses i like mules these days, took over from triples and quads for that soft wall of light.
triple 219c

Find 15% output works spot on, bonus with a mule is no bounce back off machinery and not fussy where to position it as it still floods the area even when set down bellow the subject.

Tend to not go bellow 4000k, prefer 4500-5000k ideally and even on my bigger hitters
6x xm-l2 5000k de-domed

I still enjoy the cooler side, sometimes i dont want or care for colours popping out, exaggerated reds and greens etc…………..i just want to see colours fairly accurate. Bigger flood beasts or long throwing lights tend to come into this category

This is pretty accurate for 12x xpl’s at 5700k !

The light is my avatar and the x40 in this pic,

Love the infinite control ring UI and the huge copper heat sink that helps the 5000+ OTF wall of light run…………and run…………and run without heat issues for a long time.

I am good with the cool side as long as i dont get angry blues……….

Cheers ven

sidecross
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Good to see you here ven! Smile

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

ven
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sidecross wrote:
Good to see you here ven! Smile

Hey there bro Thumbs Up

Guess it would be rude not to, been guesting it for ages, so much knowledge and seems a real great place of like minded cool dudes tbh. Love the politeness and the way you guys are……………..unfortunately i am lacking in my own mods…… But trust me i admire the mods done here, really top notch stuff and take my hat off to you all.

O am a big fan of the s2+ lights(well convoy in general and simon is a great guy). Love the s2+ triples that are part of my rotation, either in 18650 or 18350 form
Dig a pic time…………..well you know i like pics mr cross, far right, the red and blue are special (very special made) gifts for me and my son. The red is close to 9a and around 2800lm, the blue dialed back to a little 2000lm for Callum Both around 5000k of huge hot spot usefulness


Yes my lights get used, no real shelf queens, here is a quad xp-g2 5000k in work

Big Smile
ven
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3 of my little fav EDC lights part of my rotation, nichia 219B 4000k/219B 4500k and 219C 5000k

Aggressor
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Here is the light color tutorial I came up with:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/49439

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Man I can’t go anywhere without having to be jealous of Ven’s lights. Let’s talk a little tint… Ven’s RC40VNt. lol. Just kidding, you have a very fine collection Ven and I very much appreciate the pics.

Also tend to prefer neutral tints as the cooler tints give me a bit of a headache especially if getting too blue. Centralized neutral tints do well for me, even if the CRI is on the low side, the colors just seem to absorb more of the light.

Also @teacher, I’m liking those color charts too. They’re interesting to look at.

ven
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Thank you for kind words………I enjoy my convoy lights too, in fact one of my longest used is the m2 in a 4c tint(my 1st warmer tint) which is my glove box light.

Not too long back(maybe 3+ yrs) most if not all my lights in use where cool or angry blue cool(knew no different). These days 5000k i find a nice balance, EDC uses maybe 4000-5000k. I still dont mind cools, as long as not too cool. Throwers i am fine with ~6000k but night time/tired eyes i like it a little warmer as it makes my eyes strain less.

I enjoy the 4500k of the nichia 219B around (in/out) the house, which is with me as i type.

papaslightsaber
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“Angry blue cool” hahahahah. The gateway for every flashaholic. Again with more pics of the beautiful lights. Always appreciated.

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papaslightsaber wrote:
“Angry blue cool” hahahahah. The gateway for every flashaholic. Again with more pics of the beautiful lights. Always appreciated.

Thank you, here are some of my work lights(yes i am crazy and have about 10 in my tool box). 3 triples all in solarforce hosts(L2T stainless/L2T/P1D), nichia 219C on the left, nichia 219B in the middle and the xp-g2 triple far right. The latter hardly gets used, its cool and ok, just not as nice to the eye as the others. More beat up as it had the nichia in before.

Just like to have options, break it up a little…………even more so if a mundane job!

Ronin42
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as an fyi

one of the reasons CRI (R1-R8) is not the final measurment is because the test omits the range R9-R14. R9 is red and R13 is “flesh tone” did you know that R1-R8 are pastels?

(“It’s good that most people can’t remember their previous lives. Otherwise
things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo)

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When we speak about good thrower flashlight we must consider energy of foton and frequency of light.
In this case warm light has advantage when we have moisture, dust, smoke etc. in air.

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I dont like angry blue

around 5K looks a lot better

but still between 1A tints from Cree there are differences

even if the light looks very nice there is always a bad tint around the hotspot on domed LEDs

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Aggressor wrote:

I am just pointing out that “green” in the cards we all see in these pictures and dislike so much, might have been seen as perfect “yellow” to the human eyes when the picture was taken. Or perhaps some other color. These two pictures were taken under two different light sources and neither was color calibrated. There is nothing to compare.

The pictures show perfectly what the deal is with low CRI light versus higher CRI light.
Maybe for colour blind people there is nothing to compare.

2Q19

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sidecross wrote:

Everything including time is relative; there is no absolute.

Hmmm…
Our perception is relative for sure, but our reality is consistent and common. Wink

2Q19

Aggressor
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Jerommel wrote:
Aggressor wrote:

I am just pointing out that “green” in the cards we all see in these pictures and dislike so much, might have been seen as perfect “yellow” to the human eyes when the picture was taken. Or perhaps some other color. These two pictures were taken under two different light sources and neither was color calibrated. There is nothing to compare.

The pictures show perfectly what the deal is with low CRI light versus higher CRI light.
Maybe for colour blind people there is nothing to compare.

Unless photo was color calibrated, the colors seen in the picture are not the same colors seen by human eyes when the picture was taken. But people who can’t wrap their mind around this simple fact are welcome to go ahead and compare them anyway.
WalkIntoTheLight
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Aggressor wrote:
Unless photo was color calibrated, the colors seen in the picture are not the same colors seen by human eyes when the picture was taken. But people who can’t wrap their mind around this simple fact are welcome to go ahead and compare them anyway.

Actually, even color-calibration won’t capture the full color space that the human eye sees. For example, RGB monitors (or images) can never show a true yellow color, such as a dandelion flower. Yellow on a monitor will always appear somewhat greenish.

I also find that images tend to exaggerate the tint imperfections more than what my eyes see. Cree LED tints will look greener than they really are, for example.

That said, it’s still quite useful to see images of tints, side-by-side, for comparison. If gives us an idea what the color will look like in person, and if nothing else it gives us a worst-case.

Jerommel
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Aggressor wrote:
Jerommel wrote:
Aggressor wrote:

I am just pointing out that “green” in the cards we all see in these pictures and dislike so much, might have been seen as perfect “yellow” to the human eyes when the picture was taken. Or perhaps some other color. These two pictures were taken under two different light sources and neither was color calibrated. There is nothing to compare.

The pictures show perfectly what the deal is with low CRI light versus higher CRI light.
Maybe for colour blind people there is nothing to compare.

Unless photo was color calibrated, the colors seen in the picture are not the same colors seen by human eyes when the picture was taken. But people who can’t wrap their mind around this simple fact are welcome to go ahead and compare them anyway.

It’s not a matter of getting your head wrapped around your opinion.

2Q19

Tangra
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I think we, the customers should stop buying cool white lights.
We must teach companies what to put inside.
Unfortunately 90% from people are not familiar with this.

WalkIntoTheLight
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Tangra wrote:
I think we, the customers should stop buying cool white lights. We must teach companies what to put inside. Unfortunately 90% from people are not familiar with this.

Yeah, but for some reason, newbies tend to actually prefer cool white. And non-flashaholics make up the vast majority of the market.

The best we can hope for is that good companies will produce some neutral tints (or warm), along with their standard cool white. Which is what we’re getting, for the most part. It’s certainly better than a few years ago.

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