It's late 2011 now - What can I put together to get more throw out of a P60 light? I'm not trying to match what a larger reflector can do. I simply want to get some throw while still pushing out decent lumens. I don't need a completely tight beam. A little spill wouldn't be so bad. Are we still stuck on XP-E/XR-E or does an aspheric lens on an XP-G or even an XM-L make any dramatic differences?
All I can suggest is good xm-l and driver and a smooth reflector.
Well, you aren't going to get more throw than what you've mentioned however if you really don't need more throw but rather decent throw and more lumen output (bigger spot for instance) then XP-G driven hard might be the answer.
XM-L in the P60 format isn't going to be much of a thrower but will put out more light. An aspheric will do (more or less) the same thing for XM-L or XP-G that it does for XR-E. It will focus some of the light and block some of the light.
It will not throw as far when used on a XM-L or XP-G simply because the emitter surface brightness is less on those (than the XR-E).
Emitter surface brightness and reflector/lens diameter is all that throw is about which means with a given emitter all you can do it drive it harder and/or use a larger diameter reflector/lens.
You might like the effect of a TIR as well.
I have a couple aspherical lenses I have experimented with on XML drop ins but the beam is downright ugly. It works best with an XPE unfortunately.
This one fits most of the Ultrafire 500 series lights.
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/glass-optics-for-flashlights-28mm-5297
Try covering the reflector with black tape or something similar that doesn't reflect the light when using an aspherical lens, as it is the reason you see an ugly beam with XM-L and not that bad with XR-E, the angle that the XM-L throws its light is bigger than the XR-E, and a bigger amount of light will collide with the reflector, and that is why you might see some ugly rings.
The throw of an XP-G is not really any different from an XM-L. Its just that the XM-L has more light in its spill so the hotspot is not as sharply defined. This deceives the eye.
Personally I like a P60 XP-G with a SMO reflector driven at about 1A as a great general purpose light. It provides as I see it the optimum balance of general light, throw and long runtime.
Also, it can be driven hard. I don't need to worry a bit about run time for this. So if XM-L and XP-G are so close in throw should I logically just go with the XM-L with aspheric lens then? I'm not familiar with TIR? What does that do for me vs aspheric? I understand it's never going to be a desirable thrower when compared to larger reflector lights. It's just getting more out of what you have. I already have a C8 light. I'm intentionally going with a P60 for this project.
I recently added an aspheric ( the one E1320 referred to in post #3) to an XML and am impressed by it. It doesn't throw as far as the Skyline 1, for instance, but has a big, bright hotspot and quite a bit of spill. There is decent throw and a whale of a lot of lumens. I still have to black out the reflector, but outside at any distance the peripheral mottling of the beam doesn't really bother me. I think it's worth a try as an experiment if nothing else. As usual, it depends on what a person is looking for.
A TIR doesn't do anything that an aspheric can't do better, INHO.
Reflector depth has only a minor influence on throw, so the UF Rl-198 won't be really better.
A TIR won't be better in throw than an aspheric, but it will get much more flux (lumen) out of the flashlight. And depending on the specific TIR, it might give a bit spill, as weiser701 wanted.
Aspherics are not suited at all to the beam pattern (I cant think of the proper term) of an XML. Such a large percentage of lumens is lost that you'd be better off with with a reflector or going with a different LED. That lousy looking beam IS an example of what a properly matched TIR does better.
Great throwers were made with aspherics. TIRs get very heavy when a bigger diameter is involved - and great throw requires big diameter...
BTW... DEFT-EDC, 40kcd/400m. Thin beam though.
However, with P60 I'd vote for a good TIR, too. The difficulty is to find one...
It depends on what you really want. You say throw but neither of those (XP-G or XM-L) will give you more throw than a XR-E.
So if what you want is somewhat less throw but a bigger hotspot then an aspheric would do that. If you want some spill and throw (which is just a general light) then a reflector is what you want. If you want something similar to a reflector but with a little less spill and a little larger hotspot (but no greater throw) then a TIR might be what you want.
The beam angles are different between a XR-E and a XM-L (and XP-G) so there is a little more benefit to using a XR-E over a reflector for that reason. Otherwise an aspheric does the same thing for a XM-L that it does for a XR-E. However the XR-E has greater surface brightness and therefore throws further.
For either to have a "nice" beam you need to paint out the reflector. An aspheric wastes output for either type of emitter as well as far as spill (it has no spill). It is more effective at focusing the light (collimating) that does go through the lens.
So, the answer to your question really depends are what you really want to accomplish.
wile using the mentioned 28 mm aspheric with xm-l/xp-g in an p60 body, there are mainly two min points,
first, those two leds emitting the light in an relatively wider beam so in order to catch most of the light at the position where the lens is located, that 28mm aspheric is much to small, there is a need for much wider lens, otherwise you're loosing big portion of the light.
second point is that the distance between the led and lens is more or less given, +- few millimeters that you can gain with certain p60 tubes(extra spacing between dropin and lens), with the dx 28mm lens that distance is a bit to short if I'm not mistaking, and is not enough to produce real tight beam, you'll need more convex(deep) lens
wile the light is hitting the reflector it is changing angle and than in turn, hitting the aspheric in different angles and so creating ugly patterns, if you'll blacken the reflector the pattern will be better but less light will escape your flashlight.
if you like to use p60 with xm-l/xp-g and aspheric, and don't mind to be little bit disappointed regarding throw and efficiency than it is fine.
it is also a matter of personal taste.
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I dont know extreme you want to go to get the extra throw, but I tried de-doming an xml in a Manafont 3mode dropin. I ended up taking some phosphor off the xml so I have a purple/blue spot in the centre, it looks kind of horrible on a white wall as you might expect.
next time I'll try heating it up on a stove before taking off the dome, appearantly that works well.
The Results:
Beam is about 50% smaller and hotspot about 70-80% brighter. It really throws!!
Yes some light is lost, but even with my crappy dedoming job there is still a massive amount of light coming out the end, it really is hard to see the drop in relative brightness with your eyes.
Just an option...