New Convoy C8 – Clearly better

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teacher
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J-Dub74 wrote:
Hunter wrote:

Yes but, I just want new body with plain old driver and regular price. I know you put significant effort to make all this interesting firmwares and I am sure many people will like them, I thank you You in their name but in my case I will just erase it and burn some of firmwares that I like and use and thats why I am not that fond of idea paying additional fee for “improoved” driver that I would reprogram upon arrival. So, it would be nice to have cheaper option with regular Nanjg 105C/Driver, it can even be blank if they ask me.

I don’t want to stir pots here, I appreciate everyone’s good work, yours and Simons but with this price Convoy is this close -> II to Crelant prices and If you ask me, Crelant has noticable better anodisation, machining, SS elements on tailcaps, SS clip, e-button and tail switch (allows interesting firmware functionalities), driver can be moded also or for $2 I can use Nanjg105 and burn firmware to my needs…
Some may say, buy host only but that option is always least cost efectiv, host + emitter used in stock light + driver used in stock C8 (old fw) costs more than complitely by Simon assembled flashlight with identical components…


Really? Facepalm
I don’t know the light you’re referring to and I’m sure it’s very nice but is that reason to dump all over the work that went into this and talk about another light you prefer? Nobody is telling you to buy one. I was, am and will continue to be excited about this project. I’m sure information like this would be much better received in a thread about Crelant.

Exactly J-Dub74………
Hunter, to try and say it nicely; IMO….this was not your most stellar post. Not by a long shot………. FacepalmSad

DavidEF wrote:
Asking for a discount is one thing. But, upon being reminded that the price is already “discounted” and that the item is well worth the current price, to then continue to push the issue and insist that an additional discount is justified because I’m not going to use all the parts anyway is dangerously close to insulting those who put so much effort into making this great “budget” light for us all to enjoy.

+1 …. As far as I am concerned it was an insulting post.

I think possibly sometimes we get hung up to much on the word “budget”. There is much more to the meaning of the word “budget” than ‘cheap’. One word that comes to mind is ‘value’. There are many more………… Wink

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edit: I just saw this after I posted the above….

Hunter wrote:
OK, I will go now, I see I may be * because of one innocent question, O wait, there already is 15% discount available, if this were mentioned earlier I would not ask for discount and couse so much discomfort to all… I will just go and stand in the corner now…
Facepalm
Your “one innocent question” was not the problem my friend, it was all the balderdash you included with it.
I really doubt you caused much “discomfort” to anyone except yourself, and that would be because you sent yourself to stand in the corner… Wink

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

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quetzalcoatl
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Just ordered one from Simon today! Star

J-Dub74
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teacher wrote:
J-Dub74 wrote:
Hunter wrote:

Yes but, I just want new body with plain old driver and regular price. I know you put significant effort to make all this interesting firmwares and I am sure many people will like them, I thank you You in their name but in my case I will just erase it and burn some of firmwares that I like and use and thats why I am not that fond of idea paying additional fee for “improoved” driver that I would reprogram upon arrival. So, it would be nice to have cheaper option with regular Nanjg 105C/Driver, it can even be blank if they ask me.

I don’t want to stir pots here, I appreciate everyone’s good work, yours and Simons but with this price Convoy is this close -> II to Crelant prices and If you ask me, Crelant has noticable better anodisation, machining, SS elements on tailcaps, SS clip, e-button and tail switch (allows interesting firmware functionalities), driver can be moded also or for $2 I can use Nanjg105 and burn firmware to my needs…
Some may say, buy host only but that option is always least cost efectiv, host + emitter used in stock light + driver used in stock C8 (old fw) costs more than complitely by Simon assembled flashlight with identical components…


Really? Facepalm
I don’t know the light you’re referring to and I’m sure it’s very nice but is that reason to dump all over the work that went into this and talk about another light you prefer? Nobody is telling you to buy one. I was, am and will continue to be excited about this project. I’m sure information like this would be much better received in a thread about Crelant.

Exactly J-Dub74………
Hunter, to try and say it nicely; IMO….this was not your most stellar post. Not by a long shot………. FacepalmSad

DavidEF wrote:
Asking for a discount is one thing. But, upon being reminded that the price is already “discounted” and that the item is well worth the current price, to then continue to push the issue and insist that an additional discount is justified because I’m not going to use all the parts anyway is dangerously close to insulting those who put so much effort into making this great “budget” light for us all to enjoy.

+1 …. As far as I am concerned it was an insulting post.

I think possibly sometimes we get hung up to much on the word “budget”. There is much more to the meaning of the word “budget than ‘cheap’. One word that comes to mind is ‘value’. There are many more………… Wink

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edit: I just saw this after I posted the above….

Hunter wrote:
OK, I will go now, I see I may be * because of one innocent question, O wait, there already is 15% discount available, if this were mentioned earlier I would not ask for discount and couse so much discomfort to all… I will just go and stand in the corner now…
Facepalm
Your “one innocent question” was not the problem my friend, it was all the balderdash you included with it.
I really doubt you caused much “discomfort” to anyone except yourself, and that would be because you sent yourself to stand in the corner… Wink

He did put himself in the corner with his follow up post, so let’s all drop the negativity and get back to happy fun flashlight business. Thumbs Up
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wonder how a white one would look…matte maybe…

Old-Lumens wrote:
I love modding, but I don't have much use at all for flashlights in general.
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Hunter? Is there still a stash of old lights in that corner? Maybe the cells are still charged… Play time! Big Smile

Dale

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Is there some precise info when will be available pressure switches for C8 ?

teacher
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J-Dub74 wrote:

He did put himself in the corner with his follow up post, so let’s all drop the negativity and get back to happy fun flashlight business. Thumbs Up

Yeah he did and as far as I am concerned this was nothing more than a bump in the road of “happy fun flashlight business”. Wink

Y’all did an excellent job with all this also IMO. Thumbs Up

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

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I read an extensive article about anodizing aluminum. It explained the honeycomb-like-physical properties of the nano-tubes that form during the process. This is what holds the dye that can give various colors. The article said white dye has an atomic structure too large to fit in the nano-tubes, so as they said you’ll never see a white anodized aluminum.

The article also went on to say that for similar reasons, colors don’t work well with Type III Military Grade Hard Anodize.

Dale

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And what colour this C8 will give ?

Wildcat
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In bistro-mini.c you set PWM level 133 for 50% brightness, but 122 for 35% brightness. Is it error? Maybe you need 102?

Now 35% level is about 46%

DB Custom
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Quoting ToyKeeper from post #102…

“It’s not a linear scale.
The stated outputs are the power level, which can be misleading. Throw distance follows an inverse square law, while perceived brightness tends to follow something like an inverse cube. So, there’s usually not much point having a mode between 50% and 100% power.

For example, let’s say it puts out 1000 lumens and does 50 kcd lux. Here are the resulting levels in more detail:

0.1% power: 1 lm, throws 14 m, brightness 10/100
1% power: 10 lm, throws 45 m, brightness 21/100
10% power: 100 lm, throws 141 m, brightness 46/100
35% power: 350 lm, throws 264 m, brightness 70/100
100% power: 1000 lm, throws 447 m, brightness 100/100
So, to a human eye, the 35% level actually looks like it’s 70% as bright as the 100% level, and it throws 59% as far. Does the mode spacing make more sense now?”

Setting the linear numbers in the firmware is not the same as the non-linear output. Which of course causes confusion until you come to grips with the fact that you’re dealing with 2 separate things. Wink

Dale

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DB Custom wrote:
I read an extensive article about anodizing aluminum. It explained the honeycomb-like-physical properties of the nano-tubes that form during the process. This is what holds the dye that can give various colors. The article said white dye has an atomic structure too large to fit in the nano-tubes, so as they said you’ll never see a white anodized aluminum.

The article also went on to say that for similar reasons, colors don’t work well with Type III Military Grade Hard Anodize.


Have you got a link to that article Dale, I would love to read it.

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

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DB Custom
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I read that probably 2 years ago or more, when I was playing around with anodizing some aluminum (a heat sink I made for a Solarforce M3 with MT-G2)

Dale

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In 217 version was 107 for 40% and 127 for 50%.
On 218 version: 122 for 35% and 133 for 50%.

In think this is mistype.

Wildcat
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On 6*7135 now 35% level – 0.93A current and 50% level – 1.02A current.

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DB Custom wrote:
I read that probably 2 years ago or more, when I was playing around with anodizing some aluminum (a heat sink I made for a Solarforce M3 with MT-G2)

Thanks Dale, I’ll do a search and try to find some good ones. Wink

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

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In this currents the scale is very close to linear…

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J-Dub74 wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
Omega_17 wrote:
Hunter wrote:
Promo price for first 100 buyers?

Promo price for BLFers, pretty please? Big Smile

Compared to pretty much any other brand, all of Convoy’s prices are promo prices. Simon doesn’t mess around with inflated prices so he can offer “deals” on special occasions; he keeps his prices low by default. He doesn’t skimp on parts or quality either; ever since he got into lights he has consistently made top-notch items. Many of BLF’s biggest projects have attempted to deliver Convoy-level quality but most have fallen short. It’s kind of amazing he doesn’t charge more.

Thank you for saying that ToyKeeper.
I’m sorry all but no, I will not ask Simon to give us a special promo price for the reasons ToyKeeper mentioned.
He makes little enough profit as it is and he delivers quality way above his price mark.
This light is still coming in well under $25 no matter what options you choose and Simon will take 15% off of that for BLF members if you ask for the discount.
How does one ask for a discount? Is there an entry on the checkout page for a discount code? It’s been awhile since I bought things from Simon and perhaps I missed it. Or is it requested by email?

Thanks

giorgoskok
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SIGShooter wrote:
J-Dub74 wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
Omega_17 wrote:
Hunter wrote:
Promo price for first 100 buyers?

Promo price for BLFers, pretty please? Big Smile

Compared to pretty much any other brand, all of Convoy’s prices are promo prices. Simon doesn’t mess around with inflated prices so he can offer “deals” on special occasions; he keeps his prices low by default. He doesn’t skimp on parts or quality either; ever since he got into lights he has consistently made top-notch items. Many of BLF’s biggest projects have attempted to deliver Convoy-level quality but most have fallen short. It’s kind of amazing he doesn’t charge more.

Thank you for saying that ToyKeeper.
I’m sorry all but no, I will not ask Simon to give us a special promo price for the reasons ToyKeeper mentioned.
He makes little enough profit as it is and he delivers quality way above his price mark.
This light is still coming in well under $25 no matter what options you choose and Simon will take 15% off of that for BLF members if you ask for the discount.
How does one ask for a discount? Is there an entry on the checkout page for a discount code? It’s been awhile since I bought things from Simon and perhaps I missed it. Or is it requested by email?

Thanks

You purchase the light , but you don’t pay .
and you leave a message on the order to have discount for blf member .
And then Simon re-adjust price and you pay

J-Dub74
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SIGShooter wrote:
J-Dub74 wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
Omega_17 wrote:
Hunter wrote:
Promo price for first 100 buyers?

Promo price for BLFers, pretty please? Big Smile

Compared to pretty much any other brand, all of Convoy’s prices are promo prices. Simon doesn’t mess around with inflated prices so he can offer “deals” on special occasions; he keeps his prices low by default. He doesn’t skimp on parts or quality either; ever since he got into lights he has consistently made top-notch items. Many of BLF’s biggest projects have attempted to deliver Convoy-level quality but most have fallen short. It’s kind of amazing he doesn’t charge more.

Thank you for saying that ToyKeeper.
I’m sorry all but no, I will not ask Simon to give us a special promo price for the reasons ToyKeeper mentioned.
He makes little enough profit as it is and he delivers quality way above his price mark.
This light is still coming in well under $25 no matter what options you choose and Simon will take 15% off of that for BLF members if you ask for the discount.
How does one ask for a discount? Is there an entry on the checkout page for a discount code? It’s been awhile since I bought things from Simon and perhaps I missed it. Or is it requested by email?

Thanks


What you do is place your order right up to the point of clicking buy or pay or whatever it says but don’t put in any credit card info. That will generate an order number. Send Simon a message through the Ali message system (you’ll see the links on the left of the page). Give Simon your order number, tell him you are a BLF member and you would like him to adjust the BLF price (15% discount) this is also when you need to tell him if you want to pay through PayPal. He will adjust the price and then you either pay through the Ali system or ask him to send you a PayPal invoice. You can also just send him a payment using his PayPal address and reference the order number. If you go that route make sure you send him another message letting him know you paid and include the order number and any other info. It’s all a little unconventional but it works quite well in the end.

Edit: I see George summed it up pretty well in the post above. I tend to be a bit…wordy. Smile
EditEdit: So wordy that I got my very first rude mark today. Oops

teacher
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J-Dub74 wrote:

EditEdit: So wordy that I got my very first rude mark today. Oops

Bet I know which thread it was on… probably which post. Wink .. I got one to…. Thumbs Up .. Smile

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

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Bistro mini, NO I do not like that. Filling up the last bit of space and have it work on this type of drivers is a huge thing IMHO.
I could live with bistro instead of Bistro Smile
A coffee related name would fit perfect, how many of us will flash it, mod other lights with it or this driver? It is sure to keep some of us awake longer then without it Big Smile

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I vote for Biscuit!

Ordered 2… One for myself and one to loan out to friends and family as needed!

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giorgoskok wrote:
TK , where can i find the biscotti firmware ?
(Yes , i like this name LOL )

So far, it’s here. This URL might change if the name changes:
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~toykeeper/flashlight-firmware/convoy/files/...

Name changed. The code is here:
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~toykeeper/flashlight-firmware/convoy/files/...
It’s also in the main trunk repository now too.


Hunter wrote:
Yes but, I just want new body with plain old driver and regular price.

Oh, if I understand correctly, the driver isn’t part of the price change. The difference is the other upgraded components, like a copper DTP MCPCB and AR lens and probably a couple other things. But if you just want the body, he’ll probably have empty hosts available eventually.

I only mention the lack of promo deals because Simon doesn’t act like a typical businessman. Usually sales people have a mindset of price being elastic, trying to get as much money from the customer as possible, playing with margins and loss leaders and other games in an attempt to inflate sales… but Simon doesn’t really do that. He typically just sells things for slightly above his cost, without the usual pricing games.

It makes no difference to me what you do with it. I reflash most of my drivers too, usually even if they shipped with my code on them.

There’s also the BLF discount code, but the process of redeeming it is a little awkward and I always forget about it. I also kinda feel bad using it because it probably reduces his margin to zero.


The Miller wrote:
On product page it says something like “ don’t keep it in config mode too long, it will wear down memory “
What does Simon mean by this?

When it’s in the “mode group select mode”, it writes a value to eeprom every time it blinks. Basically, it flashes once, sets the mode group to 1, then waits. Flashes a second time, sets the mode group to 2, then waits. Repeat this 12 times then loop. If you leave it doing this forever, it could potentially wear out an eeprom cell in under a month. However, if you merely changed the mode group once per day, it should last somewhere between 50 and 500 years. And for most people, changing the config only rarely, it should last well over a lifetime.

So, it’s basically saying… don’t use the mode group select mode as a signal blinker mode. Use it only when you want to actually change mode groups. The battcheck mode works far better as a signal blinker.


Wildcat wrote:
In bistro-mini.c you set PWM level 133 for 50% brightness, but 122 for 35% brightness. Is it error? Maybe you need 102?

Now 35% level is about 46%

In 217 version was 107 for 40% and 127 for 50%.
On 218 version: 122 for 35% and 133 for 50%.

In think this is mistype.


Oh, what happened in that revision is that I actually measured it. Smile

In r217, the numbers were generated by a calculator (bin/level_calc.py).
In r218, the numbers were adjusted manually until my power meter told me the current draw was correct. It was an excuse to use my fancy new ACME Power Cape, and kind of fun because I could script a lot of it, like automating the button presses to change modes and enter config mode and such. I’ll probably measure again after I get one of the new C8s, to make sure the calibration is still good on production samples.

It’s weird that the numbers shifted the way they did, but I guess the 7135’s response curve isn’t as linear as I expected.

So, the values should be pretty close to spec on the drivers Convoy is using, but they might be a little skewed on other drivers using components from other sources.


Wildcat wrote:
On 6*7135 now 35% level – 0.93A current and 50% level – 1.02A current.

Is that on a new Convoy driver, or on something else? It’s calibrated based on the hardware Convoy sent me, which had different response curves than I normally see.


Quote:
names

It sounds like people are leaning slightly more toward biscotti, so I’ll plan on that for now.
DB Custom
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Sounds like a Scottish terrier that’s confused…

Dale

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That is a logical explanation, thanks TK, 50-500 years will do Big Smile

Biscotti, nice!

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Bummer, no stacked chips as an option. Anybody know how many amps they pushing stock? Does not say on description.

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Edit:
Hope Simon wants to stack a few 7138 chips for me.

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J-Dub74 wrote:
SIGShooter wrote:
J-Dub74 wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
Omega_17 wrote:
Hunter wrote:
Promo price for first 100 buyers?

Promo price for BLFers, pretty please? Big Smile

Compared to pretty much any other brand, all of Convoy’s prices are promo prices. Simon doesn’t mess around with inflated prices so he can offer “deals” on special occasions; he keeps his prices low by default. He doesn’t skimp on parts or quality either; ever since he got into lights he has consistently made top-notch items. Many of BLF’s biggest projects have attempted to deliver Convoy-level quality but most have fallen short. It’s kind of amazing he doesn’t charge more.

Thank you for saying that ToyKeeper.
I’m sorry all but no, I will not ask Simon to give us a special promo price for the reasons ToyKeeper mentioned.
He makes little enough profit as it is and he delivers quality way above his price mark.
This light is still coming in well under $25 no matter what options you choose and Simon will take 15% off of that for BLF members if you ask for the discount.
How does one ask for a discount? Is there an entry on the checkout page for a discount code? It’s been awhile since I bought things from Simon and perhaps I missed it. Or is it requested by email?

Thanks


What you do is place your order right up to the point of clicking buy or pay or whatever it says but don’t put in any credit card info. That will generate an order number. Send Simon a message through the Ali message system (you’ll see the links on the left of the page). Give Simon your order number, tell him you are a BLF member and you would like him to adjust the BLF price (15% discount) this is also when you need to tell him if you want to pay through PayPal. He will adjust the price and then you either pay through the Ali system or ask him to send you a PayPal invoice. You can also just send him a payment using his PayPal address and reference the order number. If you go that route make sure you send him another message letting him know you paid and include the order number and any other info. It’s all a little unconventional but it works quite well in the end.

Edit: I see George summed it up pretty well in the post above. I tend to be a bit…wordy. Smile
EditEdit: So wordy that I got my very first rude mark today. Oops

Thanks J-Dub and George. It is a little convoluted but as you say it does work out in the end. The last thing I need is another C8 but this one looks interesting enough to get.
SIGShooter
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The Miller wrote:
Heheh I am about to message Simon to solder 4 7138 chips extra on the board (figured with that 50% max group and the option to remove a few great start to play with it) instead of the 15% discount.

What does he charge for the 4 extra chips? I’ve tried many times to solder them onto a driver but my eyes and technique aren’t up to the task Sad

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