Astrolux S1/Blf A6 - Highest Output Battery?

57 posts / 0 new
Last post

Pages

igeigeige
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 13 hours ago
Joined: 08/07/2016 - 09:50
Posts: 213
Location: Philippines
Astrolux S1/Blf A6 - Highest Output Battery?

Hi guys, newbie flashaholic here! I just bought an astrolux s1, and as advertised it indicates a “1,600 lumens (use a protected 18650 battery)” thing. But as I read somewhere here that using a protected cell, would not make it around that 1,600 lumens output for some reasons. Also, using unprotected cells is still OK, since this flashlight has low voltage protection.

And to achieve the best performance for my precious light, may I have some suggestion/recommendation on what 18650 to use (high drain or whatsoever), the brand and model. I also plan to have someone to do a spring bypass mod on my light.

Thank you very much!

Edited by: igeigeige on 09/14/2016 - 01:37
mattjk
mattjk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 14 hours ago
Joined: 05/22/2016 - 18:51
Posts: 180
Location: United Kingdom

Anything under around 5 amps probably isn’t worth doing a bypass IMO. I tested by rigging up a flashlight spring on my bench power supply and set it to 5amps, it only started getting warm at about 5.5 and that was uncompressed. its quite a beefy spring on the driver anyway.

I use Panasonic NCR18650B, 3400mah or there or there abouts high quality cell, pulls about 5ish amps on a fresh charge will quickly drop off though.

patmurris
patmurris's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 2 hours ago
Joined: 12/22/2014 - 15:54
Posts: 1240
Location: Nice, France

High drain unprotected Samsung 30Q:
http://www.banggood.com/2PCS-INR18650-30Q-3000mah-20A-Power-Li-ion-Batte...

That’s how you are going to get the most out of a DD light. You can also check Efest IMR, Sony VTC5/6, LG HG2, Keeppower…

Chicken Drumstick
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 week ago
Joined: 08/27/2012 - 05:00
Posts: 2387
Location: UK

Samsung 30Q is what I use. Good vfm from Banggood. And will out run a 3400 cell easily…

giorgoskok
giorgoskok's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 11/13/2015 - 10:46
Posts: 2659
Location: Greece

Sony VTC6

cdjaney
cdjaney's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 03/09/2016 - 14:27
Posts: 398
Location: Deep South, Alabama

I don’t want to butt in on the thread……

But if I may ask….I have the same light.

Is there any benefit to getting the 30Q’s if we do NOT do the spring bypass? (i.e., running the light stock with no mods). Will there be an increase in output compared to the Panny protected or my Orbtronic 3100 protected batts?

I’ve tried reading multiple threads and seems to be conflicting info….or maybe it just confuses me.

John 1:5 "The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."

Chicken Drumstick
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 week ago
Joined: 08/27/2012 - 05:00
Posts: 2387
Location: UK

cdjaney wrote:
I don’t want to butt in on the thread……

But if I may ask….I have the same light.

Is there any benefit to getting the 30Q’s if we do NOT do the spring bypass? (i.e., running the light stock with no mods).

I’ve tried reading multiple threads and seems to be conflicting info….or maybe it just confuses me.


yes/no… depends. What are you comparing it too?

The 30Q can put out good current, so with or without a spring by-pass is likely to offer good PEAK numbers. But more importantly, it will sustain the output well with less voltage sag than some other batteries, while still giving good total runtimes.

e.g.

If you use the light on Turbo and High mostly, the 30Q will essentially be brighter for longer than with a 3600mAh battery. Total runtime is less, but once you get down to that level chances are Turbo won’t be working anyhow, maybe not even high. So it’s a bit mute on the benefits of a higher capacity cell.

If you are using Moonlight and low however, it’s a completely different story.

cdjaney
cdjaney's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 03/09/2016 - 14:27
Posts: 398
Location: Deep South, Alabama

Chicken Drumstick wrote:
cdjaney wrote:
I don’t want to butt in on the thread……

But if I may ask….I have the same light.

Is there any benefit to getting the 30Q’s if we do NOT do the spring bypass? (i.e., running the light stock with no mods).

I’ve tried reading multiple threads and seems to be conflicting info….or maybe it just confuses me.


yes/no… depends. What are you comparing it too?

The 30Q can put out good current, so with or without a spring by-pass is likely to offer good PEAK numbers. But more importantly, it will sustain the output well with less voltage sag than some other batteries, while still giving good total runtimes.

e.g.

If you use the light on Turbo and High mostly, the 30Q will essentially be brighter for longer than with a 3600mAh battery. Total runtime is less, but once you get down to that level chances are Turbo won’t be working anyhow, maybe not even high. So it’s a bit mute on the benefits of a higher capacity cell.

If you are using Moonlight and low however, it’s a completely different story.

Drumstick…you seem to always be Johnny on the Spot. THANK YOU!

If I may extend the discussion a bit further:

1. Would it be accurate to summarize what you said above in this way? With NO spring bypass, the 30Q (compared to the Orbtronic for example) should still be noticeably brighter on the higher modes…and sustain that “brighter-ness” longer than the Orbtronic….but at the sacrifice of somewhat shorter run-times (because of higher output drain and slightly lower capacity).

2. IF, I say IF I get brave and try the spring bypass….. a. The only true benefit would be IF I had the high drain cell I assume (translating to even higher high level outputs but again, draining cell faster). Running the spring bypass for a protected Orbtronic or Panasonic NCR18650B is not going produce any noticeable gains. Correct or not?

3. IF I get the spring bypass done, to your knowledge, will that have any negative effect on using the light with cells that aren’t high drain? Or will it make no difference because the light is only going to pull as much as the cell allows?

4. May I get a link to this cool battery comparing tool you keep linking? I’ve seen it before but can’t remember where.

THANK YOU AGAIN!

John 1:5 "The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."

EasyB
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 6 days ago
Joined: 03/09/2016 - 15:24
Posts: 1679
Location: Ohio

One way to think about the effect of these mods (spring bypass and high drain cell upgrade) is that they are both decreasing the resistance in the circuit. Reducing the circuit resistance means less voltage is dropped which means more current will flow through the LED. A spring bypass might reduce the tailcap resistance from 35mOhms to 15mOhms. Upgrading the cell might reduce the cell internal resistance from 50mOhms to 30mOhms. So doing either mod might have a similar effect on the performance, and doing both will increase the performance more.

Another thing to consider is the shape of the discharge curve, which isn’t necessarily related to the internal resistance of the cell. A discharge curve in which the voltage levels out as the cell discharges will maintain a higher voltage than a cell whose voltage declines more linearly while discharging. This will affect the performance as the cell discharges.

Here is the discharge curve database.
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php

everydaysurvivalgear
everydaysurvivalgear's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 07/31/2015 - 10:25
Posts: 3263
Location: sydney australia (GMT+10)

Even without spring bypass you may get about 5 amps of drain. A high drain cell will handle a higher current for longer then a low drain cell. So the Panasonic may have 3400Mah 3 amps of drain where the samsung 30Q may have 3000Mah 5 amps of drain. Once you get past 3 amps with the Panasonic they may drop Mah rating so from 3400mah to maybe 2700. where as the High drain cells will happily provide you the same Mah at a higher amperage so you may get 3000mah till say 10 amps. Also the high drain cells will release the energy easier.

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 35 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 8308
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

Interestingly, while many people say that the 30q nets the highest power in FET lights, in my personal experience I always get the highest amps out of good old HE2’s (or 4’s they are basically the same).

That said the difference in minor and the 30Q does offer a lot more capacity, so for an EDC light that is what I would use, or even a Panasonic “GA”. In a true EDC light runtime > output.

cdjaney
cdjaney's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 03/09/2016 - 14:27
Posts: 398
Location: Deep South, Alabama

GOOD clear answers! Thank you both! Guess imma be spendin’ some money again soon.

And, EasyB, thank you for the comparator link!

Thumbs UpThumbs Up

John 1:5 "The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."

giorgoskok
giorgoskok's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 11/13/2015 - 10:46
Posts: 2659
Location: Greece

Texas_Ace wrote:
Interestingly, while many people say that the 30q nets the highest power in FET lights, in my personal experience I always get the highest amps out of good old HE2’s (or 4’s they are basically the same).

That said the difference in minor and the 30Q does offer a lot more capacity, so for an EDC light that is what I would use, or even a Panasonic “GA”. In a true EDC light runtime > output.

You have to try VTC5A or VTC6 Smile You won’t regret it , trust me .

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 35 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 8308
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas
giorgoskok wrote:
You have to try VTC5A or VTC6 Smile You won’t regret it , trust me .

I have a feeling they would do better but put simply I am not THAT interested in getting another 50 lumens. Not when I can get 3-4 HE2’s for the price of 1 VTC6.

When the price drops on the VTC6, I am sure I will get some though.

giorgoskok
giorgoskok's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 11/13/2015 - 10:46
Posts: 2659
Location: Greece
Texas_Ace wrote:
giorgoskok wrote:
You have to try VTC5A or VTC6 Smile You won’t regret it , trust me .

I have a feeling they would do better but put simply I am not THAT interested in getting another 50 lumens. Not when I can get 3-4 HE2’s for the price of 1 VTC6.

When the price drops on the VTC6, I am sure I will get some though.

That’s for sure . I still use also some VTC5A , really impressed by the difference in some builds.

everydaysurvivalgear
everydaysurvivalgear's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 07/31/2015 - 10:25
Posts: 3263
Location: sydney australia (GMT+10)

I use Sony VTC5 and samsung 25R also LG HG2 they are all about the same in my direct drive lights maybe if i could go higher amperage the performance would change.

cdjaney
cdjaney's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 03/09/2016 - 14:27
Posts: 398
Location: Deep South, Alabama

Texas_Ace wrote:
Interestingly, while many people say that the 30q nets the highest power in FET lights, in my personal experience I always get the highest amps out of good old HE2’s (or 4’s they are basically the same).

That said the difference in minor and the 30Q does offer a lot more capacity, so for an EDC light that is what I would use, or even a Panasonic “GA”. In a true EDC light runtime > output.

VERY good points Texas…and hence part of my quandary. I don’t use the S1 a LOT. It currently sits atop my refrigerator as one of the easy access lights for around the house stuff and going out in the back yard. I tend to keep the ZL SC62w on me. SO….the extra output for those uses probably aren’t “necessary”……but since it currently is NOT my EDC, it’s both NOT as justifiable and, at the same time, IS justifiable since I don’t really “worry” about runtimes on it (since it currently sits by 2 always charged batteries).

I’d be getting the high drain just for that occasional “WOW! That’s bright!”……to impress myself or a bystander.

DANG that male drive for “ohh…ohhh…oh…Moar Power”.

John 1:5 "The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."

Chicken Drumstick
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 week ago
Joined: 08/27/2012 - 05:00
Posts: 2387
Location: UK

cdjaney wrote:

Drumstick…you seem to always be Johnny on the Spot. THANK YOU!

If I may extend the discussion a bit further:

1. Would it be accurate to summarize what you said above in this way? With NO spring bypass, the 30Q (compared to the Orbtronic for example) should still be noticeably brighter on the higher modes…and sustain that “brighter-ness” longer than the Orbtronic….but at the sacrifice of somewhat shorter run-times (because of higher output drain and slightly lower capacity).

2. IF, I say IF I get brave and try the spring bypass….. a. The only true benefit would be IF I had the high drain cell I assume (translating to even higher high level outputs but again, draining cell faster). Running the spring bypass for a protected Orbtronic or Panasonic NCR18650B is not going produce any noticeable gains. Correct or not?

3. IF I get the spring bypass done, to your knowledge, will that have any negative effect on using the light with cells that aren’t high drain? Or will it make no difference because the light is only going to pull as much as the cell allows?

4. May I get a link to this cool battery comparing tool you keep linking? I’ve seen it before but can’t remember where.

THANK YOU AGAIN!


Right so I’ve just done some testing for you. I have a stock BLF A6, so no spring bypasses or anything.

Just freshly charged a Samsung 30Q and a protected Panasonic 2900mah ICR (it’s the closest thing I’ve got to the 3400).

On turbo:

2900 Panasonic = 3.54amps
Samsung 30Q = 4.56amps

I measured amps at the tail cap with fat 12awg wire leads. So this doesn’t account for the switch Spring. But shows with a non by passed driver Spring the amp draw is significantly different.

I can’t translate this to lumens directly. But I did do some ceiling bounce lux tests.

2900mah = Intial lux of 646 settling to 598
30Q = Intial lux of 781 settling to 606

So the 30Q is quite a bit brighter intially. But settles only marginally brighter. I suspect the non by passed springs might be to blame. The 30Q also makes the light heat up more so and quicker.

Is it worth it?

Well yes and no. Tbh the human eye probably can’t easily tell the difference in lumens at this level. As its only fractionally brighter. But you’d probably notice additional range/throw if used outside. But you’d need them side by side to see this.

Where the difference would be however, once the batteries voltage drops to say 3.9v or lower. The 30Q should be offering more lumens at this level and will essentially offer a flatter longer regulation. I have certainly noticed this in other lights using different batteries.

As far as Spring by passes go. It’s really easy to do. Just two simple solder joints. I usually use copper braid but 20awg wire works too. Just don’t try and make it too long or short. That said, I never felt the need to do it on the A6. It’s bright enough without and gets hot enough that I’m not chasing every last lumen. Larger lights like the X6 I think it’s very worth doing, as they tend to handle the heat much better.

cdjaney
cdjaney's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 03/09/2016 - 14:27
Posts: 398
Location: Deep South, Alabama

Wow! Just wow. Uncalled for effort. Thank you for that!

A gentleman and DEFINITELY a scholar.

John 1:5 "The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."

Mitko
Mitko's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 09/19/2014 - 05:20
Posts: 1535
Location: Bulgaria

For out BLF drivers the chart( lumen output) would be:
VTC5A- definately the leader, then VTC6/VTC5, then LG HG2/Samsung 30Q, Then 25r/HE2(4)

personaly i use Samsung 30q cause ithave the bet of both sides: lumen output vs runtime

yet for the max amps VTC5A: even at 3.4 battery voltage it gives 2.5amps( vs 2.1 for 30q) at the emitter( XPL)

igeigeige
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 13 hours ago
Joined: 08/07/2016 - 09:50
Posts: 213
Location: Philippines

Wow, I got an overload of information here, very useful indeed. I am overwhelmed with the replies I received plus some really helpful information with regards to types of batteries, ampere, chart comparison. I will try first the Samsung 30q first, then other high drain batteries later. How about keepower high drain batteries? Would you guys recommend that? Thank you very much for helping a newbie here! Smile

akhyar
akhyar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 07/19/2015 - 23:48
Posts: 706
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Which Keeppower high drain batteries?

If the black 3200 IMR, which I also have, it is basically a rewrapped of grey Panasonic NCR18650BD, which is rated for 10A continuous discharge.

If that is the case, the Samsung 30Q, LG HG2, Sony VTC6 are theoretically better for high drain usage as they are rated for around 20A continuous

Chicken Drumstick
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 week ago
Joined: 08/27/2012 - 05:00
Posts: 2387
Location: UK

I think the ratings can cloud the issue sometimes. Just because a battery might be rated to deliver ‘x’ goods, does not mean it will actually do it, or perform as well as another battery below this level.

Logically you’d think it should, but inn my experience it just doesn’t seem to be the case. Also pushing batteries harder will generally get the worse performance from that battery, i.e. pushing a battery to 75% of it’s rated draw will normally result in lower runtimes and probably reduce the number of times you can recharge it.

Anyone who is familiar with the RC world, be it planes or cars, will know the discharge C rating of batteries is crucial for performance and is generally much easier to see than it is with flashlights. e.g. a plane may require a 20C battery for it’s rated specs. They supply a 25C as standard. It goes fine. You buy some new batteries which are 45C rated, so logic would say over the top and not needed. But low and behold the plane will be far more punchy and usually fly longer, even for the same mAh rating.

igeigeige
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 13 hours ago
Joined: 08/07/2016 - 09:50
Posts: 213
Location: Philippines

akhyar wrote:
Which Keeppower high drain batteries?

If the black 3200 IMR, which I also have, it is basically a rewrapped of grey Panasonic NCR18650BD, which is rated for 10A continuous discharge.

If that is the case, the Samsung 30Q, LG HG2, Sony VTC6 are theoretically better for high drain usage as they are rated for around 20A continuous

Thank you for your clarification regarding keeppower, so they are rebranded. Okay, ill just buy the Samsung 30Q first, anyway, does the flat top 30q fits perfectly with the Astrolux S1/BLF A6? or it should be the button top?

akhyar
akhyar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 07/19/2015 - 23:48
Posts: 706
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Basically batteries brands such as Keeppower, Obtronics, Efest, AW are just rewrappers, and same goes for torchlight branded batteries such as those made for Nitecore, Olight, Fenix, etc.
For 18650 batteries, they are normally just rewrapped of cells made by Panasonic/Sanyo, Samsung, LG or Sony.

Flat top works fine, as I’m using the stock 30Q or HG2 for my BLF A6

igeigeige
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 13 hours ago
Joined: 08/07/2016 - 09:50
Posts: 213
Location: Philippines

akhyar wrote:
Basically batteries brands such as Keeppower, Obtronics, Efest, AW are just rewrappers, and same goes for torchlight branded batteries such as those made for Nitecore, Olight, Fenix, etc.
For 18650 batteries, they are normally just rewrapped of cells made by Panasonic/Sanyo, Samsung, LG or Sony.

Flat top works fine, as I’m using the stock 30Q or HG2 for my BLF A6

Okay, so basically which performs better 30Q or HG2 or they are just virtually the same? Thanks for the tip akhyar!

akhyar
akhyar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 07/19/2015 - 23:48
Posts: 706
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

I couldn’t notice any difference through my naked eyes.

igeigeige
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 13 hours ago
Joined: 08/07/2016 - 09:50
Posts: 213
Location: Philippines

Did you also spring bypass mod your BLF A6?

akhyar
akhyar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 07/19/2015 - 23:48
Posts: 706
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Nope. Mine is stock config

Chicken Drumstick
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 week ago
Joined: 08/27/2012 - 05:00
Posts: 2387
Location: UK

igeigeige wrote:

Thank you for your clarification regarding keeppower, so they are rebranded. Okay, ill just buy the Samsung 30Q first, anyway, does the flat top 30q fits perfectly with the Astrolux S1/BLF A6? or it should be the button top?


I use flat tops in mine, although I see no reason why a button top wouldn’t work too and would allow it to work in lights that require them. That said, batteries are fairly cheap, so don’t sweat it too much. Just buy for now and worry about later when it happens.

Likewise, the 30Q might or might not be the best battery, really depends on what you consider as best. But it is a good battery for the money and ones that exceed it in performance for this type of light are only going to be marginal. And something you’d only be able to tell by measuring it with a DMM or lux meter, not with the naked eye.

igeigeige
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 13 hours ago
Joined: 08/07/2016 - 09:50
Posts: 213
Location: Philippines

Chicken Drumstick wrote:
igeigeige wrote:

Thank you for your clarification regarding keeppower, so they are rebranded. Okay, ill just buy the Samsung 30Q first, anyway, does the flat top 30q fits perfectly with the Astrolux S1/BLF A6? or it should be the button top?


I use flat tops in mine, although I see no reason why a button top wouldn’t work too and would allow it to work in lights that require them. That said, batteries are fairly cheap, so don’t sweat it too much. Just buy for now and worry about later when it happens.

Likewise, the 30Q might or might not be the best battery, really depends on what you consider as best. But it is a good battery for the money and ones that exceed it in performance for this type of light are only going to be marginal. And something you’d only be able to tell by measuring it with a DMM or lux meter, not with the naked eye.

Yeah, will definitely buy 30Q flat tops. I am just wondering why did the Astrolux S1/BLF A6 is advertised as “1600 lumens (use 18650 battery)” I saw it on several websites, whereas here in our precious blf forum it should be the higher Amp/discharge rate / high drain, whatever you call it therefore go for the unprotected high Amp rating batteries for the maximum output. So for a newbie like me, It makes me so confused. Smile

Pages