Interesting: NITECORE TIP Parasitic Drain Thread

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Streamer
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Interesting: NITECORE TIP Parasitic Drain Thread
Edited by: Streamer on 09/17/2016 - 18:05
atbglenn
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Mine is definitely suffering from this problem. I put my fully charged Tip in the lockout mode around this time yesterday. I just checked it and the battery indicator flashes twice. Normally I can get 3 flashes after using it normally for a few days. I’ll call Illumination Supply and see if they heard from Nitecore about this problem

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somebody needs to do a fair test.
Put the light in lockout with NO use.
Wait until the low battery level lights start flashing and report how many days it took.

a lot of people report short battery life on lockout with “very little use”. That is very vague, for all we know they fired Turbo multiple times, and call that “very little use”.

Streamer
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If I have a fully charged TIP and I lock it out with no use whatsoever and 6 days later it is stone dead IT HAS A PROBLEM. It may have been dead at 4 or 5 days for all I know. But it DEFINITELY has a problem

I haven’t put it in lock out mode since full charged on Friday evening and so far it is fine. As long as it doesn’t come on accidentaly in my pocket I can live with it. But, lockout definitely has a PROBLEM.

RobertB
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OP, you’re not the only one complaining about this. One guy says “Can confirm. My TIP is dead in less than a week with no use and lockout on”

Reddit link to story

Streamer
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RobertB wrote:
OP, you’re not the only one complaining about this. One guy says “Can confirm. My TIP is dead in less than a week with no use and lockout on”

Reddit “link to story”:https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/53c8mc/nitecore_tip_confirm...

Bingo! Reddit has it pegged also. Something stinks at Nitecore.

atbglenn
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Fact, at least on mine, and several other owners, the parasitic drain in lockout is much higher than when it’s in the standby mode from my limited test

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Trevi_lux wrote:
I have for 3 days ago. Lockout most of the time, a little use and now I have 3 blinkies.

I have no trouble believing this ‘Trevi lux’. Thumbs Up
Three days, used little, sometimes locked out sometimes not. Battery still greater than 50%. (“3 blinkies”)
There are many variables in your report that makes it entirely believable.
  • Was it three whole days (72 hours) or just 49 hours or so?
  • How much is “used little”??
  • How much of the time was it actually in “Lock Out” and how much time was it not???

The above variables make it entirely believable that your report of battery still above 50%…. is 100% accurate. Thumbs Up

Just as the report below by ‘Streamer’ is entirely believable also.

  • Fully charged.
  • Locked out.
  • No use at all.
  • 6 days later… stone dead.

I mean “stone dead”, with zero use in Lock Out; is stone dead…. any way you slice the pie. Wink

Streamer wrote:
If I have a fully charged TIP and I lock it out with no use whatsoever and 6 days later it is stone dead IT HAS A PROBLEM. It may have been dead at 4 or 5 days for all I know. But it DEFINITELY has a problem

I haven’t put it in lock out mode since full charged on Friday evening and so far it is fine. As long as it doesn’t come on accidentaly in my pocket I can live with it. But, lockout definitely has a PROBLEM.

——————————————————————-
Nitecore TIP
Power Indication
Pressing the mode switch while the light is turned off to activate the built-in power
indicator, the number of flashes gives an approximation of battery level:
1… 3 flashes represent battery level above 50%.
2… 2 flashes represent battery level below 50%.
3… 1 flash represents battery level below 10%.

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will34
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Somebody needs to take one apart, measure voltage when full and then again after a couple days in lockout. Or desolder the battery and measure the current draw, if it discharges within a week or less it has to consume around 2mA. Then we report this to Nitecore and everyone gets a free replacement with this problem fixed Smile

I’m still waiting for mine but I’m pretty sure this problem is on every single unit, sounds like a firmware bug rather than hardware defect.

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So glad I have decided not to buy any Nitecore products anymore after checking their claim rails of D4 are made of “pure copper” yet no cope can be found there after my genuine D4 failed.
This type of light needs a long standby mode, there is only one smiley appropriate here Facepalm

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will34 wrote:
Somebody needs to take one apart, measure voltage when full and then again after a couple days in lockout. Or desolder the battery and measure the current draw, if it discharges within a week or less it has to consume around 2mA. Then we report this to Nitecore and everyone gets a free replacement with this problem fixed Smile

I’m still waiting for mine but I’m pretty sure this problem is on every single unit, sounds like a firmware bug rather than hardware defect.

As I posted in another thread about this, it’s just super sloppy firmware writing. It’s trivial to have the same standby current in lockout as normal off. If they can’t figure out how to do that, they shouldn’t be putting MCU’s in their flashlights.
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will34 wrote:
Somebody needs to take one apart, measure voltage when full and then again after a couple days in lockout. Or desolder the battery and measure the current draw, if it discharges within a week or less it has to consume around 2mA. Then we report this to Nitecore and everyone gets a free replacement with this problem fixed Smile

I’m still waiting for mine but I’m pretty sure this problem is on every single unit, sounds like a firmware bug rather than hardware defect.

Nitecore wrote:

“The standby time for TIP in non-lockout mode is actually more than a year. The buttons have also been specially designed to prevent most accidental activation. The so called “Lockout” function is only recommended to use when one requires absolutely no light output. However, the lockout is controlled by the microchip and consumes battery power. This reduces the standby time to no more than a week depending on the current battery level.”

Which implies Nitecore knows about this problem, and in fact was by design. Unbelievable. Especially when many are reporting the light turning on in their pockets in non-lockout mode.

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RobertB wrote:
Nitecore wrote:

“The standby time for TIP in non-lockout mode is actually more than a year. The buttons have also been specially designed to prevent most accidental activation. The so called “Lockout” function is only recommended to use when one requires absolutely no light output. However, the lockout is controlled by the microchip and consumes battery power. This reduces the standby time to no more than a week depending on the current battery level.”

Which implies Nitecore knows about this problem, and in fact was by design. Unbelievable. Especially when most everyone is reporting the light turning on in their pockets in non-lockout mode.

If it was by design, as in intentional, they’ve got the most clueless people in the world writing firmware for them. The idea that the microcontroller has to stay awake while in lockout, but can only be put in a standby mode when off is laughable.
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Stereodude wrote:
RobertB wrote:
Nitecore wrote:

“The standby time for TIP in non-lockout mode is actually more than a year. The buttons have also been specially designed to prevent most accidental activation. The so called “Lockout” function is only recommended to use when one requires absolutely no light output. However, the lockout is controlled by the microchip and consumes battery power. This reduces the standby time to no more than a week depending on the current battery level.”

Which implies Nitecore knows about this problem, and in fact was by design. Unbelievable. Especially when most everyone is reporting the light turning on in their pockets in non-lockout mode.

If it was by design, as in intentional, they’ve got the most clueless people in the world writing firmware for them. The idea that the microcontroller has to stay awake while in lockout, but can only be put in a standby mode when off is laughable.

Totally agree, which leads me to believe they rushed the design, shoved it out the door knowing about it, and now issued the statement so people can’t return them. Had they stated this “design feature” on their website in the first place, nobody would have purchased them.

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RobertB wrote:
Totally agree, which leads me to believe they rushed the design, shoved it out the door knowing about it, and now issued the statement so people can’t return them. Had they stated this “design feature” on their website in the first place, nobody would have purchased them.
It’s not a bug it’s a feature! Facepalm
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Stereodude wrote:
It’s not a bug it’s a feature! Facepalm

Lol. truism.. How hard would it have been to have a mechanical slider which kept the switch from being depressed? Especially if the “The standby time for TIP in non-lockout mode is actually more than a year”

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RobertB wrote:
Lol. truism.. How hard would it have been to have a mechanical slider which kept the switch from being depressed? Especially if the “The standby time for TIP in non-lockout mode is actually more than a year”
I bet they still fix the “feature” on the next run of lights or make a v2 shortly.
will34
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They will fix this in the next gen TIPGT now with XP-L HI

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Ok… you guys are NOT going to believe this… it is just plain STUPID!! No other word to describe this.

Got my Tip from AA today, ordered gray and got black, no big deal as it looks good to me. Turbo mode is impressive for this size and the light feels great overall. I like it. But that’s about it, because when I opened it up, unsoldered a battery lead and took measurements with my DMM, I got a nasty surprise.

Moonlight is nice and low as it should be… 4.34mA

But when you enter lockout… 6.49mA!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?

Oh by the way… normal standby current draw? 0.00mA, so low my DMM doesn’t even read it. But I suppose it has to be around 0.1-0.5mA

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Thank you for the Science Based info!:-)

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So essentially, turning on lockout is like leaving the light turned on in moonlight mode nonstop? No wonder it’s dead after a few days.

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will34 wrote:
Ok… you guys are NOT going to believe this… it is just plain STUPID!! No other word to describe this.

Got my Tip from AA today, ordered gray and got black, no big deal as it looks good to me. Turbo mode is impressive for this size and the light feels great overall. I like it. But that’s about it, because when I opened it up, unsoldered a battery lead and took measurements with my DMM, I got a nasty surprise.

Moonlight is nice and low as it should be… 4.34mA

But when you enter lockout… 6.49mA!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?

Oh by the way… normal standby current draw? 0.00mA, so low my DMM doesn’t even read it. But I suppose it has to be around 0.1-0.5mA

Why are you complaining? That’s the new feature Nitecore was talking about! lol..Seriously, that’s completely unacceptable. I hope we all get replacements.

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EyeballFryer wrote:
So essentially, turning on lockout is like leaving the light turned on in moonlight mode nonstop? No wonder it’s dead after a few days.

Nitecore site says the Tip can last up to 46 hours on Low of 1 lumen
Above photo shows 1 lumen draws 4.24mA
Lockout consumes 6.49mA, or 50% More than the Low mode, or as if the LED was producing 1.5 lumens of power drain.
Theoretically, Lockout should take 30 hours to drain the battery, but Ive seen reports of it lasting twice as long before going dead.. Sick

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What a lovely feature Flat Stare

I’ve had mine in the pocket and out of lockout for 6 days now. So far NO accidental turn ons and battery check light still gives three blinks. Thumbs Up

Now that we know. Sick

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atbglenn wrote:
I hope we all get replacements.
dont hold your breath..
repeat after me There IS No to Lockout
Streamer wrote:
What a lovely feature Flat Stare
dont despair, you can get a replacement with the same wonderful design
Streamer wrote:
So far NO accidental turn ons
Now That’s good to hear, seriously Smile
Streamer
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jon_slider wrote:
atbglenn wrote:
I hope we all get replacements.
dont hold your breath.. just say No to Lockout
Streamer wrote:
What a lovely feature Flat Stare
dont despair, you can get a replacement with the same wonderful design
Streamer wrote:
So far NO accidental turn ons
Now That’s good to hear, seriously Smile

Y ou betcha….that was the final test for me. If it turned on in pocket (like that dammed TUBE) back it would go.

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Streamer wrote:
If it turned on in pocket (like that dammed TUBE) back it would go.

this is actually Very Good Info!
I was wondering exactly that, whether the exposed buttons on the Tip were stiff enough to prevent premature activation..
Since There IS No Lockout.. Wink
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will34 wrote:
Ok… you guys are NOT going to believe this… it is just plain STUPID!! No other word to describe this.
Moonlight is nice and low as it should be… 4.34mA

But when you enter lockout… 6.49mA!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?


That’s some good, (bad Facepalm ); info will34! Your descriptive word pretty well sums it up too. Thumbs Up
Reckon what they were thinking when they did that???? Shocked .. Never mind, they weren’t thinking obviously….. Wink
I have a DMM just like yours too.

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

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I read at other places where some TIP users said it turned on erroneously numerous times for them. But I don’t know if they were fumbling with it or what. Mine is on my keychain EDC..so far (6 days) it’s been 100%.

will34
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I measured 6.49mA for a solid 20 seconds, does it drop after a while? probably, it was tricky to mantain the DMM lead steady in that position. Maybe I’ll take it apart once more and solder wires for a longer measurement.

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teacher wrote:
Reckon what they were thinking when they did that???? Shocked .. Never mind, they weren’t thinking obviously….. Wink .

If I had to guess, it could have been them trying to rush the TIP to market, so proper and thorough testing wasn’t done. I remember there was confusion early on about the TIP CRI, whether it came in just one color temperature or two. It also could have been someone making a last second design change to the circuitry or whatever thinking it wouldn’t introduce any problems, so no thorough testing was done again.

But yeah, someone wasn’t thinking at Nitecore – they took a shortcut somewhere and ended up with a messed up lockout mode.

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