The GT, Proto V2 arrived!, the BLF special giga thrower

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staticx57
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Tripod socket please Big Smile

Barkuti
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Hello!

Fellows, thinking in putting some bucks in a bigass reflector?

Did anyone dared to try a triple lens setup before?

This is my idea (v2):

  1. Stage one. Pre-collimator: a narrow angle TIR.
  2. Stage two. A convex/plano-convex lens, converging the beam to some point up front: 
  3. Stage three. A concave/plano-concave lens gives us our final result. Check the following pic borrowed from Lens (optics) at wikipedia.

 

Cheers Party

Original post date: Tue, 11/01/2016 - 14:12; edited: refined idea.

  

mdeni
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That is very interesting indeed. Especially considering the ludicrous TN42 price. If it is considerably cheaper people will buy it, but it must be cheap. And it mush have at least 1mcd.

Very good idea since no Chinese cheap manufacturer has gotten around to trump the TN42 for a quarter of the price, yet. And it is very easy and possible, all you need is a bigger reflector. And you have found it.

Also it is very nice to use a reasonable amount of batteries, like 4×18650. And to be able to use pulled cells, and not only INR. Since the XHP35 will pull ~4A, any battery can do that. No need for more than 4 batteries. High CRI is also not needed in this kind of light. Yes i love high cri, but in this particular situation every possible lumen and cd counts. And maximum output should be crucial.

emarkd
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Personally I never would have considered doing a “box-style” light, like those plastic “spot lights” linked earlier, but now that its out there I really like the idea. I think most of us have shelves full of lights at this point and probably nobody in this thread actually needs another one, so lets do something very different. I’m in either way, but I really hope y’all go forward with a fantastic “box spotlight” style.

KawiBoy1428
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I purchased 4 TN42’s for $161.00@ so whats a TK61 cost $122.00-$130.00? Not that bad after all in my book! Everybody loves it, one guy wanted me to mod his with a XHP70, he has changed his mind since he has been using it in the field! The relector is the Heart of this Beast good luck with that part of the project!

I purchased a fifth TN42 for modding. Keeping the other one stock to test against, Winters coming got to have something to do! Smile

KB1428 “Live Life WOT”

ImA4Wheelr
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Tom E wrote:

ImA4Wheelr wrote:

Tom E wrote:

Wow, might be worth building a light around that reflector. The quality issues are compounded the bigger the reflector is, just like aspherics, so size I'm sure comes with a cost.

Oh yeah, I agree.  I had negotiated them down to a great price way back when, but they would not budge on quantity.  To give you an idea of its performance, here is a quote from what they told me about it:

"Yes, we have a special Luminus CST90 reflector which achieves >100cd/lm and is an ultra-specular reflector with no facets for military spot light applications."

I think it's worthwhile to re-investigate.

 . . .

Agreed, I especially like that the reflector would be provided by an American Company and, I think, manufactured here too.  On the other hand, I would also be interested in hearing about other big reflector options.  Especially, shallow reflectors as I do like wide spill if possible.  I would prefer throw over spill if I had to chose though.

Barkuti
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Hi! Smile

Updated my previous idea on #63. In fact, I know think it may be the perfect recipe for incredible performance zoomies. Of course I may be wrong, yet check it out!

 

Über-cheers Party

  

djburkes
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I prefer throw over spill any day…

The Miller
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Barkuti wrote:

Hi! Smile


Updated my previous idea on #63. In fact, I know think it may be the perfect recipe for incredible performance zoomies. Of course I may be wrong, yet check it out!


 


Über-cheers Party

Yes several well focussed lenses would make a very interesting light for sure.
This is about reflector based throw.
A wide reflector to get the throw.

Also a zoomie with two lenses and now even three, wow, this needs a real good manufacturer that is very actively working with us and can deliver extreme build precision
Let’s see how the Q8, possible future Q4 and this giga thrower (maybe a manufacturer feels compelled to step in seeing this thread) pan out first to see how far we can come with projects relatively easy (yet challenging in itself Wink ) compared to three or double lensed zoomies.

djozz
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I have no idea what optical lay-out you are proposing Barkuti? At least your posts are so unclear that I can not figure anything out.

maukka
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mdeni wrote:
High CRI is also not needed in this kind of light. Yes i love high cri, but in this particular situation every possible lumen and cd counts. And maximum output should be crucial.

I’m with mdeni. I’d gladly sacrifice some CRI towards longer throw on a light like this. It’s not like you can actually see the color of things very well a kilometer away anyways.

Just sourcing some D4 4A/4D (XHP35A-H0-0000-0D0BD445E) emitters should be enough. Too bad Cree doesn’t offer 3 or 2 step ellipse bins on these, so we could get less tint variation between samples.

edit: emitter model added

Caleb
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Awesome! Many more months of education and fun. I would like at least one.

EasyB
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In our quest for more throw, I think beam angle needs to be considered. When increasing reflector size and keeping the emitter the same size, at some point the beam will become just too narrow to be useful. The point at which this happens will be different for different people and for different uses.

If a 120mm reflector and XHP35 HI is used, the beam will be a bit smaller than that of the TN42 with its ~92mm reflector. I don’t have the TN42, but based on the sizes of the emitter and reflector, I think its beam size should be similar to (or a bit smaller than) a UF1504 with XPL HI. In my experience, this is a usable beam, especially at greater distances (300-400m) where it illuminates a larger area. But much smaller than this I think is bordering on too small.

So, I think XHP35 HI should be used rather than dedomed XPL or XPG2. Or multiple emitters, but this increases complexity and cost.

Barkuti
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djozz, take a look at the Encyclopædia Britannica picture I posted before:

0K. Imagine the “eye” corresponds to the TIR mounted emitter in our setup. Now, after the short focal distance convex lens (or 2 in series lens team), a sliding concave lens finishes the job:

Well, hope you can see it. Not an expert in optics, you may guess.

Should allow zooming, and should allow to tune the “track” width somehow, while caring little to none about the emitter setup as long as the focusing is well done (TIR + convex selection).

By the way, any known good TIRs for XHP70s? All those old XR-E ones by any chance? 

 

maukka, take a look at this beautie:

XHP35A-H0-0000-0D0UB40DT @ Cutter Electronics 7000K, 90+CRI

Cheers my dears Party

  

maukka
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Barkuti wrote:

maukka, take a look at this beautie:


XHP35A-H0-0000-0D0UB40DT @ Cutter Electronics 7000K, 90+CRI

Cheers my dears Party

There’s really no point in a very cool white high CRI emitter on a thrower. The blue light will wash out colors (and the blue beam in the air disguises what ever you wanted to look at anyway). Also the output is a third lower than with a lower CRI neutral one, that will look much better regardless of CRI.

Barkuti
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maukka wrote:

There's really no point in a very cool white high CRI emitter on a thrower. The blue light will wash out colors (and the blue beam in the air disguises what ever you wanted to look at anyway). Also the output is a third lower than with a lower CRI neutral one, that will look much better regardless of CRI.

Mmmkay.

Well, time to figure out how to make my proposed setup with an XHP70. Party

A short, threaded tube above the TIR would allow us to finely adjust the convex lens position (with a threaded lens, of course). This should allow us to adjust the beam width… shouldn't it? Of course this middle lens would need to be of a short focal distance, as I said before. Correct me if this sounds wrong.

Sounds fun? 

 

Cheers Party

  

johny723
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I want one!

thijsco19
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Super simple design. 130 mm head. 50 mm battery tube (4s2p setup)

Big SmileBig SmileBeer
The Miller
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thijsco19 wrote:
Super simple design. 130 mm head. 50 mm battery tube (4s2p setup)
Big SmileBig SmileBeer
nice! yeah this was what I had in mind too (and I do remember Old Lumens say this would be the kind of light he would want to see produced, so I am thinking about adding some $ on each to give to Justin and Valerie)
blueb8llz
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I know this will add a lot more complications, but I much prefer if this light will have a side switch. It just makes it so much easier to turn the light on/off with these bulky lights. Changing grip position is not too big of a deal with the smaller lights, but cigar or a tactical grip on these bulky lights then changing grip to your standard grip, may lead to a drop on the floor potentially or eventually. Haha

ImA4Wheelr
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^

+1 on the last 3 posts.   Smile

The Miller
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Ehm yeah BIG light + Narsil = side switch (IMHO)

Xandre
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In the tailcap please a clicky for totally off.

Behind the head an electronic switch.

Regards Xandre

Caleb
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I’ve never had the need for a super thrower, but with this development team…

Whenever there is an interest list, please put me down for one.

Nicolaas
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Djozz wrote: “The debate is lumen vs throw. It will be a big light so will we be happy with a 1400 lumen XP-L HI and try to hit 1Mcd?, or will we settle for 700kcd with a 2000+ lumen XHP35?, or go 4000 lumen / 300kcd with a XHP70? (numbers are a very fast guess)”

Throw please, and lots of it!!

700Kcd with a 2000+ lumen XHP35? – no thanks, I already got the TN42 (680Kcd & 2500 lumen)
300Kcd with a 4000+ lumen XHP70? – no thanks, there’s already lights that to exactly that

1000Kcd + 1400 lumen XP-L HI? YES YES YES

Grtz
Nico

Gerrh
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I'm in

staticx57
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Nicolaas wrote:
Djozz wrote: “The debate is lumen vs throw. It will be a big light so will we be happy with a 1400 lumen XP-L HI and try to hit 1Mcd?, or will we settle for 700kcd with a 2000+ lumen XHP35?, or go 4000 lumen / 300kcd with a XHP70? (numbers are a very fast guess)”

Throw please, and lots of it!!

700Kcd with a 2000+ lumen XHP35? – no thanks, I already got the TN42 (680Kcd & 2500 lumen)
300Kcd with a 4000+ lumen XHP70? – no thanks, there’s already lights that to exactly that

1000Kcd + 1400 lumen XP-L HI? YES YES YES

Grtz
Nico

Why not 4000+ lumen 1000Kcd? Wink

Nicolaas
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NOT because a thrower with that much output would blind you to an extend that the throw would be useless.
Throwers that need to light something up, FAR AWAY should have minimum spill and max throw.

This would not be an EDC or even an allround light but a dedicated thrower, outhrowing the TN42.

Just my 2 cents….

Grtz
Nico

Xandre
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But with this big size you would not get so much spill.

I believe that with XHP 35 is best and we get more than 700Kcd

Or take the new Oslon Black Flat Square we tested with 3,5A on a
copper star ~230 cd/mm²

Regards Xandre

Nicolaas
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Oslon Black Flat might not be a bad idea – with a reflector that big and 230 cd/mm² we could get over 1,5Mcd……..with a pencil beam still, fun and reach!

Grtz
Nico

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