[PART 1] Official BLF GT Group Buy thread. Group buy officially closed! Lights shipping.

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Boots
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Well, it won’t make you feel any better but I’ve been emailing Neal since January with no reply until today.

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kntx wrote:
Seems there is more energy put on sales of outside groupbuy customers
I do not think so at all…. just the luck of the draw. Nothing more… nothing less.

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sp5it
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Tube arrived today but… because of damage from picture above I can’t put it in ffs!! Overlap 1mm.
I need new bottom part for replacement. Neal does not respond.
Mike

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kntx wrote:
Seems there is more energy put on sales of outside groupbuy customers

Not even slightly the case, why would they first off? He paid the same group buy price.

It is just a matter of his message happening to be in front of Neal first. Also in many cases Neal does not know the answer to a question and has to wait for a 3rd party to get back to him. Those obviously will be delayed over the ones he can answer himself.

kntx
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teacher wrote:
kntx wrote:
Seems there is more energy put on sales of outside groupbuy customers
I do not think so at all…. just the luck of the draw. Nothing more… nothing less.

With all my respect,this new member just signed up less than a day ago in this forum,and in few hours just received a positive answer – and i am waiting months for a reply that would never arrive – cannot call this “luck of the draw”

Boots
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Neal had no way of knowing whether I was on the list. I also did not get my answer via this forum. I got it via email. My first reply after several emails since I ordered my light on December 27th.

To Neal, he only knew that I was a paying customer and nothing more.

kntx
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Texas_Ace wrote:
kntx wrote:
Seems there is more energy put on sales of outside groupbuy customers

Not even slightly the case, why would they first off? He paid the same group buy price.

It is just a matter of his message happening to be in front of Neal first. Also in many cases Neal does not know the answer to a question and has to wait for a 3rd party to get back to him. Those obviously will be delayed over the ones he can answer himself.

Besides the emails i never received an answer,in 5th march sent the first surveyor through m4dm4x site and the second in 12 of march – all of them without an asnwer

Is there any time limit to fix issues of groupbuy ,or should we expect to wait months again?

kntx
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Boots wrote:
Neal had no way of knowing whether I was on the list. I also did not get my answer via this forum. I got it via email. My first reply after several emails since I ordered my light on December 27th.

To Neal, he only knew that I was a paying customer and nothing more.

You wrong : Neal has all the emails and users of the Groupbuy from this forum,that’s the way we all payed for the GT

Boots
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kntx wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
kntx wrote:
Seems there is more energy put on sales of outside groupbuy customers

Not even slightly the case, why would they first off? He paid the same group buy price.

It is just a matter of his message happening to be in front of Neal first. Also in many cases Neal does not know the answer to a question and has to wait for a 3rd party to get back to him. Those obviously will be delayed over the ones he can answer himself.

Besides the emails i never received an answer,in 5th march sent the first surveyor through m4dm4x site and the second in 12 of march – all of them without an asnwer

Is there any time limit to fix issues of groupbuy ,or should we expect to wait months again?

These are all things I’ve done as well with no answers. Again, Neal did not know that I was not on the group buy list.

Boots
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I paid through the m4dm4x site and contacted through email. There is no reason he would not have thought I was from the forum (technically I have been on the forum for years just not as long as on CPF) since I was using the purchase link.

kntx
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Boots wrote:
This is quite a mess. Sorry if I screwed anyone up. I was just doing what I was told to do.

Just leave it the way it is……. I told you I don’t blame you

Texas_Ace
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kntx wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
kntx wrote:
Seems there is more energy put on sales of outside groupbuy customers

Not even slightly the case, why would they first off? He paid the same group buy price.

It is just a matter of his message happening to be in front of Neal first. Also in many cases Neal does not know the answer to a question and has to wait for a 3rd party to get back to him. Those obviously will be delayed over the ones he can answer himself.

Besides the emails i never received an answer,in 5th march sent the first surveyor through m4dm4x site and the second in 12 of march – all of them without an asnwer

Is there any time limit to fix issues of groupbuy ,or should we expect to wait months again?

The surveys are just now being looked at since yesterday, so I would have been surprised if you got a response to that any sooner.

Up to this point issues have not been the priority. Getting all the orders shipped was the priority. There is simply not enough manpower to go around so some things have to get priority.

Now that the shipments are done, the issues get priority. So I hope they will be taken care of quickly. How quickly I can’t say since I am not involved with anything more then reminding Neal to take care of issues every chance I get.

You will be taken care of, not to worry.

keithober
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Same here…Neal’s only response to six emails since my order on December 10th was this one, afternoon of 12 March (China time): sorry I missed your order info I will let them ship tomorrow Regards Neal

Since it is now “the day after tomorrow” in China, and I still don’t have a tracking number or other indication of shipment, I can only assume that I’ll be waiting another 13 weeks for a 2nd response. With this kind of customer service, it would seem odd to me if any future orders of this light or any others would allow the same person to handle anyone’s money or customer service responsibilities. Millions of business and people around the world competently handle order placement and customer service at this kind of volume (which is very, very low); Neal, so far, is not one of them.

Long before manufacturing started, the exact order volume, the predicted number of customer service emails, and the worldwide holiday schedule were all well known to everyone; so, the root cause for the poor customer service and disorganized order processing/shipping all boil down to people agreeing to responsibilities that they either knew or should have known were beyond the capabilities of their processes.

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hey guys!

 

i am forwarding all mails to neal immediately

 

he took the money - he has the items

he is responsible to answer and fix the issues.

 

i got some lists and tried to help a bit by sending the tracking info (even if my data are outdated and some lines are mixed obviously)

 

i still trust Neal thaz he is no criminal.

but i have not gotten answers for days Sad

 

i hope that just “something bad happened“ amd not that he followed TheMiller...

 

i am investigating a way (which is legal for me) to manage future sales as middlesman.

i keep the money until the order has arrived, then pay towards the seller

 

otherwise we need to involve a shop for handling and shipping etc - but that step might raise the price 10 to 20 % Sad

 

already member of M4DM4X.com ?

the best deals are waiting for YOU!

BIG THANKS for helping me by using my REFLinks

before you buy elsewhere mail me: MARTIN@M4DM4X.COM - i will try to save you money!

Joey Adams
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In all seriousness Neal could also be having issues with the “Great Firewall of China”. I know Hank (Noctigon, Emisar) certainly has lots of issues in his business because of that very thing.

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I am sure the question about these issues is not IF or WHETHER, but WHEN they will be addressed. If Neal wanted to scam us, he would have already done that. He may be overwhelmed by hundreds of BLF GTs that are to be shipped and the ongoing lawsuit, but I believe everyone will get what they paid for eventually.

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I think the team here are great, and I trust Neal. Sadly I think he is overwhelmed by all emails and questions. As someone wrote earlier if he only had wrote here I think most of us would have accepted a delay. I am also waiting on one of my light payed in december. I hope we see a list of the last 50 flashlights sent.

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I need to let things straight ; besides my 2 issues that haven’t been taken care,this GroupBuy has all been built with alot of illusion and trust,things that lately have been touched for so multiple “afairs”(i hope don’t have to mention them right now) – there have been so many people just like me that all trusted the way the group was supposed to work,reason why we paid so hapily todo a single person, not even having any insurance that things would work out,but only trusting the group; i hope,just like Martín said,there would be a “right way” to fix things up before any others money show up,future groups cannot work just the same and i hope that the right persons would arrange it ; not fair for members to explain them : you know, the american orders were cheaper to send as 2 palets as a lot …… Or that now the logistic person is in honeymoon,or CNY or he is too overwhelmed by so much work ,as this isnt he’s primary job —++++common people,we are talking about 135k$ + other 100k or more that are ready to pay , i believe we deserve a profesional service ,even if3 that would cost us 10$ more ,no more excuses and excuses without the proper solution

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You are totally right kntx, the remaining orders and future GBs must be managed better. I know it is easier said than done, but if such problems continue, it could make the whole budgetlightforum look bad and untrustworthy.

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sp5it wrote:

Tube arrived today but… because of damage from picture above I can’t put it in ffs!! Overlap 1mm.
I need new bottom part for replacement. Neal does not respond.
Mike

That must be quite frustrating. Sorry to hear about it.
Lost as it is and needing replacement anyway… can’t you try to bang it back somehow? Using a hammer and a pair of wood blocks… idk. Some crafty people around may have some ideas.
sp5it
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About my issue I just want to get response: “Broken part you need will be shipped xx.xx.2018” I can cover shipping cost if needed.
Mike

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. George Carlin

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Have all paid orders actually been shipped?

Sorry for my bad English (gogole transtorla)

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johny723 wrote:
You are totally right kntx, the remaining orders and future GBs must be managed better. I know it is easier said than done, but if such problems continue, it could make the whole budgetlightforum look bad and untrustworthy.

If future group buys are indeed managed ‘better’, that would be great, but with all the complexities of dealing with China (different interests, language barriers, cultural barriers, other side of the world with just the internet for contact) I do not neccesarily expect any future BLF group buy to be managed ‘better’. Every new group buy had its own ‘flavour’ of complications and with the next project there’s new unique complications ahead of us.

These type of Group buys in which completely new flashlights are developed are not a straightforward seller/customer deal in which you pay and then the seller has to come up with a perfect light in the standard expected time. There is risks involved and you know it. That the first run of lights has design flaws, that there are delays, in short that things are less perfect than planned/hoped and even promised.

I really hope for a good ending of the GT-project and I’m looking forward to the next awesome flashlight developed by the bad and untrustworthy budgetlightforum! Wink

kntx
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djozz wrote:
johny723 wrote:
You are totally right kntx, the remaining orders and future GBs must be managed better. I know it is easier said than done, but if such problems continue, it could make the whole budgetlightforum look bad and untrustworthy.

If future group buys are indeed managed ‘better’, that would be great, but with all the complexities of dealing with China (different interests, language barriers, cultural barriers, other side of the world with just the internet for contact) I do not neccesarily expect any future BLF group buy to be managed ‘better’. Every new group buy had its own ‘flavour’ of complications and with the next project there’s new unique complications ahead of us.

These type of Group buys in which completely new flashlights are developed are not a straightforward seller/customer deal in which you pay and then the seller has to come up with a perfect light in the standard expected time. There is risks involved and you know it. That the first run of lights has design flaws, that there are delays, in short that things are less perfect than planned/hoped and even promised.

I really hope for a good ending of the GT-project and I’m looking forward to the next awesome flashlight developed by the bad and untrustworthy budgetlightforum! Wink

I I don’t really agree with you on the complexities and i am talking to you as a person that is dealing daily with multicultural surrounding ; long time ago i’ve learned that the.customer is always right and the only thing that is tying the seller with the buyer are the money (chinese mentality,even though is international) business first – before the GT was produced, there were some big heads and hearts of people that allowed GT to be true,and all these months not much mentioned – there were people that paid much for telling the truth and ,even though i respect your opinion or point of view,i still believe that there is always space for improvement,meantime that’s the real interest (besides the money of course) – there is definetely a real need of an oficial rep. capable to inform correctly every buyer ,and i am sure LT might have them ; besides that, Martin’s idea to protect the money for the future buyers might help also,not fair a person (to wich could happen so many things) to be an intermediate of 100k $ or whatever – in europe or usa ,that would be imposible to work like this without having Sam behind

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Yawn

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Nev wrote:
Yawn
Big Smile . Big Smile . Big Smile . Big Smile . Big Smile . Big Smile . Big Smile . Big Smile . Big Smile .. Thumbs Up .. Wink

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

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kntx wrote:
djozz wrote:
johny723 wrote:
You are totally right kntx, the remaining orders and future GBs must be managed better. I know it is easier said than done, but if such problems continue, it could make the whole budgetlightforum look bad and untrustworthy.

If future group buys are indeed managed ‘better’, that would be great, but with all the complexities of dealing with China (different interests, language barriers, cultural barriers, other side of the world with just the internet for contact) I do not neccesarily expect any future BLF group buy to be managed ‘better’. Every new group buy had its own ‘flavour’ of complications and with the next project there’s new unique complications ahead of us.

These type of Group buys in which completely new flashlights are developed are not a straightforward seller/customer deal in which you pay and then the seller has to come up with a perfect light in the standard expected time. There is risks involved and you know it. That the first run of lights has design flaws, that there are delays, in short that things are less perfect than planned/hoped and even promised.

I really hope for a good ending of the GT-project and I’m looking forward to the next awesome flashlight developed by the bad and untrustworthy budgetlightforum! Wink

I I don’t really agree with you on the complexities and i am talking to you as a person that is dealing daily with multicultural surrounding ; long time ago i’ve learned that the.customer is always right and the only thing that is tying the seller with the buyer are the money (chinese mentality,even though is international) business first – before the GT was produced, there were some big heads and hearts of people that allowed GT to be true,and all these months not much mentioned – there were people that paid much for telling the truth and ,even though i respect your opinion or point of view,i still believe that there is always space for improvement,meantime that’s the real interest (besides the money of course) – there is definetely a real need of an oficial rep. capable to inform correctly every buyer ,and i am sure LT might have them ; besides that, Martin’s idea to protect the money for the future buyers might help also,not fair a person (to wich could happen so many things) to be an intermediate of 100k $ or whatever – in europe or usa ,that would be imposible to work like this without having Sam behind

The customer is not always right. Sometimes they’re right. Usually they’re in the ballpark. Often they’re wrong. Once in a while they’re complete morons.

In this case we’re probably more participants than true customers. Unfortunately, adding an official company rep sounds like a retail transaction involving cost. It seems that this light will be commercially available at revised retail pricing. That’s the best option for those looking for paid company reps and more assurances.

I’m the meantime I’m happily and patiently waiting for round 3. I think the volunteers in this GB have done an outstanding job of managing the situation as it exists.

teacher
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kntx wrote:
teacher wrote:
kntx wrote:
Seems there is more energy put on sales of outside groupbuy customers
I do not think so at all…. just the luck of the draw. Nothing more… nothing less.
With all my respect,this new member just signed up less than a day ago in this forum,and in few hours just received a positive answer – and i am waiting months for a reply that would never arrive – cannot call this “luck of the draw”
OK…..
BUT with the same respect I cannot for the life of me think this is some plot against you or anyone else to answer your email or PM last or not at all.

I think Boots PM/email just happened to be at the top when Neal happened to check them. Therefore he just happened to get a timely reply.

THAT…. is why I call it the “luck of the draw”.

With some people emailing or sending multiple PM’s to Neal it has done nothing but to continue to overload an already overloaded situation.

That is why TA has asked (several times) people to refrain from trying to contact Neal multiple times. It only slows down an already slow process even more.

And all the pertinent information has been posted in this thread as it has been available. So multiple emails/PM’s to Neal ain’t gonna change it.

Just like the survey M4DM4X sent. There is no need at all to send it in more than one time. To send it in more than once just complicates things even more.

You did not get a reply in a day or two or 10? So what?

Is it better for Neal to try & continue to sort things out and get them taken care of with no email/PM replies….. OR ……. DO you want Neal spending all his spare time responding to hundreds of emails or PM’s a day???

Can’t have it both ways.

Could Neal probably have communicated things a bit better on a general basis by a short weekly post on this thread?? YEP…. Thumbs Up

But that didn’t happen…. so no use crucifying him now when he is probably working his tail off trying to get everything sorted out. Wink

Just my .02…. YMMV. Smile

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

teacher
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Hugh Johnson wrote:

The customer is not always right. Sometimes they’re right. Usually they’re in the ballpark. Often they’re wrong. Once in a while they’re complete morons.

In this case we’re probably more participants than true customers. Unfortunately, adding an official company rep sounds like a retail transaction involving cost. It seems that this light will be commercially available at revised retail pricing. That’s the best option for those looking for paid company reps and more assurances.

I’m the meantime I’m happily and patiently waiting for round 3. I think the volunteers in this GB have done an outstanding job of managing the situation as it exists.

Very well put Hugh Johnson!! Thumbs Up

In my business, the customer is always right……
……………….. right up until that time they are NOT.

THEN…. they fall right into one of the categories you mentioned.
With outright wrong & moron receiving less & little mercy……. Wink
Especially if they are or get belligerent.

And yeah…. I think “participants” is a good way to describe us. I like how you put that. Thumbs Up

If someone would rather have all the bells & whistles of immediate readily available customer service they should definitely wait to be a customer & not join a Group Buy.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

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Leo (Shirley) answered me …

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