[PART 1] Official BLF GT Group Buy thread. Group buy officially closed! Lights shipping.

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YouFunnyGuys
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JasonWW wrote:

Just check post #1 every now and then. Because of the small reflector batches, shipping the lights has been quite slow. The date for batch #3 of PM’s to go out keeps getting pushed back and back. We are in March now and the focus has shifted to sorting out missing shipments, damaged shipments, etc…

As far as when the last group of folks to buy can do so, that is up to Texas_Ace. Maybe Neal can get more stuff done now that “all” the lights have shipped. Emails to g_sintornillos makes it sound like there are still a few lights that have not been sent yet. I don’t know of that’s the case or not.

I hope the delay in this last buying group will motivate Neal and Lumintop to sort out the issues quickly. The $100k from the next group of buyers will pay a lot of bills for them. I thinks it’s good motivation to get issues sorted out and emails responded to. We might even get some lists of stuff. Thumbs Up

Thank you for the thoughtful and prompt response Jason.

Best regards,

/manny

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JasonWW wrote:
Are they actually selling it for $165? If so, then that must be seperate from the Aliexpress store where they are $399 and $479.

Look here: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1293396#comment-1293396

This is an update a few minutes ago

Sorry for my bad English (gogole transtorla)

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Thanks g sintornillos, that’s the one I was trying to find in this huge thread. Sorry to drop all that on you TA. I know that it’s really hard to find answers when your own questions go unanswered, same goes for MARTIN (m4d m4x). Hopefully Neal can get this all cleared up soon.

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g_sintornillos wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
Are they actually selling it for $165? If so, then that must be seperate from the Aliexpress store where they are $399 and $479.

Look here: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1293396#comment-1293396

This is an update a few minutes ago


I see that screen grab.

What I don’t understand is if the wholesale price is only for wholesalers such as Banggood or Gearbest (or are they retailers?) and then regular buyers like you and me have to pay the retail price.
Or is it a matter of you and me being able to buy it at the wholesale price? It’s confusing.

I’m going to assume regular people can buy at $165, but where did they get that price from? They could easily sell it for $200 plus shipping and start making some profit.

The Aliexpress price doesn’t make sense. Who is going to buy for $400? Maybe they are trying to find desperate people?

IDK, I really don’t care, either. I’m just mildly curious.

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They are making profit at $165. Gaurenteed.

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On Alixpress? Is it clone of GT? They can clone pretty fast.

cool i'll see you when you get there

kntx
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At 200$ there is more that some profit,i assume the cost of the GT &65$ – lets ne serious,the GT wont be the light for ‘everybody’/to have arround the house,it has a specific customers (lets call em flashaolics)and they have a max budget to pay probably max 200 – i expect to see the GT around 120$ with coupons during this year maybe less then that,besides that,in Europe there are other fees that sums up to another 100$ easily ,so don’t think that would workout good with DHL – time will say it

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Pulsar wrote:
They are making profit at $165. Gaurenteed.

Even at less than $100. I live in Asia, l buy agri equipment from China all the time, and you’d be surprised how low cost-of-production is in China, guaranteed.

They’ll ship to you a small farm tractor at only $150 more, CNF, by boat.

kntx
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Never mind ,wholesale in China not the same like USA or EU,is like : i’ll sell you as my interest is right now; in this case,lets say LT has lots of stock wholesale is every piece just to get cash and “pay bills” (just like Martin said)

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DENGOH wrote:
On Alixpress? Is it clone of GT? They can clone pretty fast.

This is at Lumintop Official Store, so I doubt it’s a clone. Besides, clones are usually cheaper in price not more expensive.

Are the links working for you?

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Pulsar
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tatasal wrote:
Pulsar wrote:
They are making profit at $165. Gaurenteed.

Even at less than $100. I live in Asia, l buy agri equipment from China all the time, and you’d be surprised how low cost-of-production is in China, guaranteed.

They’ll ship to you a small farm tractor at only $150 more, CNF, by boat.


Im not surprised. They would not have sold it at $110 if they were loosing money. Yes, it was probably very slim profit, but there was some. Except the few countries that have exceptionally high shipping costs. I think that was one thing delaying the group buy. How to keep in the profit and make it seem they were actually loosing money the whole time.

All in all, they were given this light. No designing, or R&D. They got a light that was very well designed and top of its class.

Then on top of it, selling lights to people outside the group buy before it was complete. A huge slap in the face whether it was 1 or 1000 lights. We (The designers and the original 555 members) gave them this light and money for tooling to start production. “We need to make money” is not an excuse.

Then this most recent “we need more money to ship your light” to the member that posted recently… How could Neil honestly request that after it was already agreed that members that have already paid will not need to pay more to ship, and he claims his paypal is locked down?

I already have my light. I dont have a dog in this fight. But I have been keeping up on this thread anyway to see how it ends. The longer it goes the more I see Lumintop taking us for a ride. Every few days I see people claiming they got their GT direct from Lumintop outside the group buy, and about every mention of the GT on FB has Lumintop reps telling people how to get theirs direct from them outside the group buy.

TA, I admire your patience. At this point, if it was my project, I would tell Lumintop to *%$% off and bring the light to another manufacturer.

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Pulsar wrote:
They are making profit at $165. Guaranteed.

I know, but I’m pretty sure they were wanting to get away from these really low Group Buy prices so they can make some better profit margins. Let me crunch a few numbers.

If the average shipping cost is $40 then $157 – $40 = $117. Maybe they are making a tiny profit, but combined with the losses from the $115 price ($115 – $40 = $75), it equals out to practically no profit. That’s like 4 months of no profit from this light since it started rolling off the assembly line. Plus the months spent developing it. That’s quite upsetting for the company who had to invest a really huge amount of money to produce this new model.

At $165 plus shipping, that’s an extra $43 per light. I guess that is pretty decent profit, but still not enough to make up for the last 4 months. I assumed they would sell it for a higher price than that.

I guess if it were selling through Banggood or Gearbest then $200 plus shipping might be about right. I assume their Aliexpress store is factory direct, so they cut out a middle man and can still do okay at the $165 plus shipping price.

The bad thing is, they still have at least another 3 months of group buy orders to put out (650 lights) at this lower profit margin price. Lumintop execs might consider the GT a flop. They may not be able to pay off their investment until well after the Group Buy is finished and they can sell them to the public.

Sorry for the rambling.

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DENGOH wrote:
With quite a few damaged parcels lately, i think buyer have to bear the extra cost of shipping via DHL or bear the risk of damaged parcel via unknown shipper. It’s fair to everyone. It’s DHL setting the price and earn the shipping money, not Neal nor Lumintop.
Another option is request refund now and forget about it.

Earlier it was part of project GT 101 basic knowledge that alternative shipping(via a chain of mail organizations) to some countries was more expensive, and sometimes a whole lot more expensive which was supposedly the core of the whole problem.

It was also one reason for splitting the light in two boxes for alternative shipping, the other being even restrictions in maximum parcel maximum size and/or weight. These factors in turn probably caused the split-in-two shipments to have very little padding in the larger box to protect the more delicate head.

kntx
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You wrong: for Spain,LT used registered 2 boxes no padding at all and 1 box (DHL style perfectly protected) ; never there was a mention that would say that registered shipping doesnt deserve the least padding at all , more it seams they’ve done it so people would change their mind in future with registered shipping (even though in Europe, DHL means another 80-110€ fees)!,There is no excuse that registered shipping to be sent with no protection at all…..

Pulsar
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JasonWW wrote:
Pulsar wrote:
They are making profit at $165. Guaranteed.

The bad thing is, they still have at least another 3 months of group buy orders to put out (650 lights) at this lower profit margin price.

Sorry for the rambling.


They dont, because they have been hustling the GT direct threw FB and other channels for a while now.
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Pulsar wrote:
tatasal wrote:
Pulsar wrote:
They are making profit at $165. Gaurenteed.

Even at less than $100. I live in Asia, l buy agri equipment from China all the time, and you’d be surprised how low cost-of-production is in China, guaranteed.

They’ll ship to you a small farm tractor at only $150 more, CNF, by boat.


Im not surprised. They would not have sold it at $110 if they were loosing money. Yes, it was probably very slim profit, but there was some. Except the few countries that have exceptionally high shipping costs. I think that was one thing delaying the group buy. How to keep in the profit and make it seem they were actually loosing money the whole time.

All in all, they were given this light. No designing, or R&D. They got a light that was very well designed and top of its class.

Then on top of it, selling lights to people outside the group buy before it was complete. A huge slap in the face whether it was 1 or 1000 lights. We (The designers and the original 555 members) gave them this light and money for tooling to start production. “We need to make money” is not an excuse.

Then this most recent “we need more money to ship your light” to the member that posted recently… How could Neil honestly request that after it was already agreed that members that have already paid will not need to pay more to ship, and he claims his paypal is locked down?

I already have my light. I dont have a dog in this fight. But I have been keeping up on this thread anyway to see how it ends. The longer it goes the more I see Lumintop taking us for a ride. Every few days I see people claiming they got their GT direct from Lumintop outside the group buy, and about every mention of the GT on FB has Lumintop reps telling people how to get theirs direct from them outside the group buy.

TA, I admire your patience. At this point, if it was my project, I would tell Lumintop to *%$% off and bring the light to another manufacturer.


PS: Thanks for the rude mark for the above post… Thumbs Up Facepalm
Guessing by whose been active recently, I got a good idea who it was
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Pulsar wrote:

I’m not surprised. They would not have sold it at $110 if they were loosing money. Yes, it was probably very slim profit, but there was some. Except the few countries that have exceptionally high shipping costs. I think that was one thing delaying the group buy. How to keep in the profit and make it seem they were actually loosing money the whole time.

All in all, they were given this light. No designing, or R&D. They got a light that was very well designed and top of its class.

Then on top of it, selling lights to people outside the group buy before it was complete. A huge slap in the face whether it was 1 or 1000 lights. We (The designers and the original 555 members) gave them this light and money for tooling to start production. “We need to make money” is not an excuse.

Then this most recent “we need more money to ship your light” to the member that posted recently… How could Neil honestly request that after it was already agreed that members that have already paid will not need to pay more to ship, and he claims his paypal is locked down?

I already have my light. I dont have a dog in this fight. But I have been keeping up on this thread anyway to see how it ends. The longer it goes the more I see Lumintop taking us for a ride. Every few days I see people claiming they got their GT direct from Lumintop outside the group buy, and about every mention of the GT on FB has Lumintop reps telling people how to get theirs direct from them outside the group buy.

TA, I admire your patience. At this point, if it was my project, I would tell Lumintop to *%$% off and bring the light to another manufacturer.


Wow, there is some wrong information and some bad assumptions. Was it you who said all this same stuff a while back or was it someone else? I’ve heard all this same rhetoric before about how Lumintop and Neal are trying to scam us. Normally I would search the thread to find out, but it’s super slow recently. I’ll just write it fresh.

The $110/$115 price was definitely set too early, before Lumintop knew how much the light would cost to produce as well as ship. Texas_Ace has already confirmed they lost money on those orders.

High shipping costs was not the big delay in the group buy. It was the very slow reflector production. The stupid reflector company said “Yeah, give us the contract and we will crank them out lickety split.” Only they couldn’t. After rejecting the bad ones, it only came to 125 to 150 reflectors per week. This is still causing a slow down.

High shipping costs did push certain orders to the back of the list, like registered mail orders and remote area addresses. Were these 235 or so orders delayed? I think they did take an extra week or two so they could figure out the packages and how to best send them. So I guess certain orders did get delayed a little. Still, the biggest delay, by far, was the reflectors.

You really think we designed the whole light? Everybody here knows it was a joint effort. We came up with ideas, Lumintop was the one who actually had to go from ideas to reality. That is a huge amount of work we did not have to deal with.

Do you really think the $8,250 worth of deposits actually helped pay for tooling and to start production? That is a drop in the bucket compared to the huge financial investment to make these lights. That deposit money was simply to prove people wanted to buy this light. It helped persuade Lumintop to go forward with production. That’s all.

Assuming the Group Buy is finished by June(?) and they release it to the public at $165 plus shipping, they might have their initial investment paid off by 2019. (This is based on facts and figures talked about in private in case someone is going to ask me how I came to this conclusion) This really sucks for them. At this point in time I’m sure they consider the GT a failure. They just have you stick it out and eventually it may prove a success.

I does suck that they sold some lights before the GB was finished, but it definitely makes a difference whether it was 1 or a 1000. If they sold a 1000, it would push back the GB by 7 to 8 weeks. If it was 1 light, it would have no effect at all.

A slap in the face? Emotions and business do not go together. They are running a business. I don’t think we have a written contract preventing them from selling to the public before the GB is over. It is all a handshake deal as we try and work together. Technically they can sell them if they want. We can’t sue them to stop. When they sold them on the side in the past, we found out, told Neal or Lumintop management and they stopped it. If they are starting to sell again, let’s see if management will stop them again. Lumintop management “seems” to be honoring the deal of not selling until the GB is over even if some of their employees do not.

The request for more money from g_sintornillos is indeed strange. We need to get more info before we assume the worst.

TA has already said why our partnership with Lumintop is so important. We definitely could not just switch to another manufacturer like you’re suggesting.

I also have my light and don’t work for Neal, Lumintop or BLF Forum. I’m trying to be neutral about things.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

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Pulsar
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And there is the one that gave me the rude mark for speaking my mind in a civilized manner

“I also have my light and don’t work for Neal, Lumintop or BLF Forum. I’m trying to be neutral about things.”
Yet has not been involved in the team from the beginning, yet speaks as if he was one of the original team members

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Pulsar wrote:
JasonWW wrote:

The bad thing is, they still have at least another 3 months of group buy orders to put out (650 lights) at this lower profit margin price.

They dont, because they have been hustling the GT direct threw FB and other channels for a while now.

Eh, I’m not even phased any more.

That is not even close to the 650 orders ($100,000) they will get over about a weeks time when the last batch of PM’s go out.

The sooner they can get all the issues sorted from the first 850 sales (missing or damaged items, etc…), the sooner they can get serious money rolling in.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

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Pulsar wrote:
And there is the one that gave me the rude mark for speaking my mind in a civilized manner.

It wasn’t me who gave you a rude mark.
Pulsar wrote:

JasonWW wrote:
I also have my light and don’t work for Neal, Lumintop or BLF Forum. I’m trying to be neutral about things.

Yet has not been involved in the team from the beginning, yet speaks as if he was one of the original team members

Thank you?

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

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alex1234
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Finally got my Gtvn with CFT-90. I measured 1.535m cd. This thing is insane




kntx
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JasonWW wrote:
Pulsar wrote:

I’m not surprised. They would not have sold it at $110 if they were loosing money. Yes, it was probably very slim profit, but there was some. Except the few countries that have exceptionally high shipping costs. I think that was one thing delaying the group buy. How to keep in the profit and make it seem they were actually loosing money the whole time.

All in all, they were given this light. No designing, or R&D. They got a light that was very well designed and top of its class.

Then on top of it, selling lights to people outside the group buy before it was complete. A huge slap in the face whether it was 1 or 1000 lights. We (The designers and the original 555 members) gave them this light and money for tooling to start production. “We need to make money” is not an excuse.

Then this most recent “we need more money to ship your light” to the member that posted recently… How could Neil honestly request that after it was already agreed that members that have already paid will not need to pay more to ship, and he claims his paypal is locked down?

I already have my light. I dont have a dog in this fight. But I have been keeping up on this thread anyway to see how it ends. The longer it goes the more I see Lumintop taking us for a ride. Every few days I see people claiming they got their GT direct from Lumintop outside the group buy, and about every mention of the GT on FB has Lumintop reps telling people how to get theirs direct from them outside the group buy.

TA, I admire your patience. At this point, if it was my project, I would tell Lumintop to *%$% off and bring the light to another manufacturer.


Wow, so much wrong information and bad assumptions. Just wow. Was it you who said all this same stuff a while back or was it someone else? I’ve heard all this same rhetoric before about how Lumintop and Neal are trying to scam us. Normally I would search the thread to find out, but it’s super slow recently. I’ll just write it fresh.

The $110/$115 price was definitely set too early, before Lumintop knew how much the light would cost to produce as well as ship. Texas_Ace has already confirmed they lost money on those orders.

High shipping costs was not the big delay in the group buy. It was the very slow reflector production. The stupid reflector company said “Yeah, give us the contract and we will crank them out lickety split.” Only they couldn’t. After rejecting the bad ones, it only came to 125 to 150 reflectors per week. This is still causing a slow down.

High shipping costs did push certain orders to the back of the list, like registered mail orders and remote area addresses. Were these 235 or so orders delayed? I think they did take an extra week or two so they could figure out the packages and how to best send them. So I guess certain orders did get delayed a little. Still, the biggest delay, by far, was the reflectors.

You really think we designed the whole light? Everybody here knows it was a joint effort. We came up with ideas, Lumintop was the one who actually had to go from ideas to reality. That is a huge amount of work we did not have to deal with.

Do you really think the $8,250 worth of deposits actually helped pay for tooling and to start production? That is a drop in the bucket compared to the huge financial investment to make these lights. That deposit money was simply to prove people wanted to buy this light. It helped persuade Lumintop to go forward with production. That’s all.

Assuming the Group Buy is finished by June(?) and they release it to the public at $165 plus shipping, they might have their initial investment paid off by 2019. (This is based on facts and figures talked about in private in case someone is going to ask me how I came to this conclusion) This really sucks for them. At this point in time I’m sure they consider the GT a failure. They just have you stick it out and eventually it may prove a success.

I does suck that they sold some lights before the GB was finished, but it definitely makes a difference whether it was 1 or a 1000. If they sold a 1000, it would push back the GB by 7 to 8 weeks. If it was 1 light, it would have no effect at all.

A slap in the face? Emotions and business do not go together. They are running a business. I don’t think we have a written contract preventing them from selling to the public before the GB is over. It is all a handshake deal as we try and work together. Technically they can sell them if they want. We can’t sue them to stop. When they sold them on the side in the past, we found out, told Neal or Lumintop management and they stopped it. If they are starting to sell again, let’s see if management will stop them again. Lumintop management “seems” to be honoring the deal of not selling until the GB is over even if some of their employees do not.

The request for more money from g_sintornillos is indeed strange. We need to get more info before we assume the worst.

TA has already said why our partnership with Lumintop is so important. We definitely could not just switch to another manufacturer like you’re suggesting.

I also have my light and don’t work for Neal, Lumintop or BLF Forum. I’m trying to be neutral about things.

Now that’s interesenting point of View of a fellow member or a business partner? So many words ,but let’s assume that you would of payed on 2december and by now,instead the light that you got,you would have a shipping number dated on 7february that ever since, is saying : preregistered,pending of deposit ,and there is nobody capable to give you a proper answer where your light is it……yes,i was about 200 on the list and payed right away but of course,you were luckier than me to have the3 light and now only see how good Lumintop/Neal has done everything (and nobody really payed you to do so)

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kntx wrote:
You wrong: for Spain,LT used registered 2 boxes no padding at all and 1 box (DHL style perfectly protected) ; never there was a mention that would say that registered shipping doesnt deserve the least padding at all , more it seams they’ve done it so people would change their mind in future with registered shipping (even though in Europe, DHL means another 80-110€ fees)!,There is no excuse that registered shipping to be sent with no protection at all…..

Yes, that’s how it went. Why does that imply “You wrong”?
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kntx wrote:

Now that’s interesenting point of View of a fellow member or a business partner? So many words ,but let’s assume that you would of payed on 2 december and by now instead the light that you got, you would have a shipping number dated on 7 february that ever since, is saying : preregistered, pending of deposit and there is nobody capable to give you a proper answer where your light is it……yes, i was about 200 on the list and payed right away but of course you were luckier than me to have the light and now only see how good Lumintop/Neal has done everything (and nobody really payed you to do so)

Me or Pulsar? You quoted us both.

If me, I think I know what you are asking. It’s just worded strangely:

If I got tired of waiting, I would ask for a refund and move on.

If the paypal protection deadline got close and I still got no response about a refund, I would move to make a dispute. Maybe a week before the protection runs out. If the light showed up during paypal dispute, I would close the dispute.

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samnavy
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  1. on list.

Paid $14 the day I got the PM.

Paid in full Jan 12th:
Thank you for your purchase! You ordered the following item(s):
8pcs Samsung 35E x 1 – $40.50
BLF GIGAThrower (DHL) x 1 – $101.78
IMPORTANT:
Please reply to this email and send me your phone number AND the BLF username
I will ship as soon as possible or contact you if i need anything else
greetings
Neal

Got email from Neal Jan 29th requesting phone number.

Today received a TEXT MESSAGE for shipping via DHL from Hong Kong with a tracking number that says it’s already in Los Angeles, but is still also in Hong Kong.

The DHL tacking page also does not show my full mailing address in Hawaii, it only shows my name/state/zip/USA… but no street address? Is that ok?

I am hopeful!

KawiBoy1428
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alex1234 wrote:
Finally got my Gtvn with CFT-90. I measured 1.535m cd. This thing is insane




!https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4771/40830177222_6cfc6b8649_b.jpg!


Must of been a Bitch centering/focusing that LED. The emitter is offset to the pad and the whole board is offset to the emitter hole in the reflector, to put the emitter in the center of the reflector, WOW!

KB1428 “Live Life WOT

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samnavy wrote:

Today received a TEXT MESSAGE for shipping via DHL from Hong Kong with a tracking number that says it’s already in Los Angeles, but is still also in Hong Kong.

They gave you a link via the Schrödinger Tracking service? Big Smile That’s kind of bad; when they locate or actually physically handle it in either one of those locations, it ceases to exist in the other. You better hope someone sees or touches it in LA first!
Keisari
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KawiBoy1428 wrote:

Must of been a Bitch focusing that LED. The emitter is offset to the pad and the whole board is offset to the emitter hole in the reflector, to put the emitter in the center of the reflector, WOW!

There’s gotta be a smart method to do this. Perhaps you could just set up a camera or microscope stand and or a laser, then eyeball center things, add reflector+window to test it. Lots of work anyway, but then again the stock emitter is not and can not be perfectly centered either. There’s only so much you have to do or even can do. Perfect x,y centering is not even needed to achieve maximum throw, but of course good for efficiency, practicality, appearance, decent beam profile, everything else. Perfect z centering is kind of independent of x,y and several methods could be used. No way to make use of any regular centering ring part, obviously. Not as more than a shim.

I mean it’s hard to properly focus but not necessarily any harder than swapping in anything more typical if you can’t use the stock MCPCB and centering ring. It’s asymmetrical package preinstalled on an weird rectangular board, but that’s it. Shocked

I don’t mean to say any less wow, that’s a definite success and some beautiful work.

Enderman
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The die is centered on the holes, so if you use screws to mount it then it doesn’t matter that the board is offset.
Or you could simply read the datasheet and do some measurements and use math to center the LED properly on the shelf.

Franz
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Pulsar wrote:
PS: Thanks for the rude mark for the above post… Thumbs Up Facepalm Guessing by whose been active recently, I got a good idea who it was

So it seems like a Neal’s crush or a just a sensitive personal without empathy……

I got some “rude” too when I posted the print of the sarcastic reply of this guy I think I’m the wrong here and I did should thanks neal for his outstanding work here….

I understand that,I’m very ungrateful personal and another one was G_sintornillos how he can expected a better reply than “its expensive to send to Uruguay, so it sent to usa”…..

For those who are getting problems with the shipping I will share my experience: both paypal and credit card have 180 days protection and after that you cannot place a dispute or charge back anyway, so keep an eye in this, paypal requires time and not affect the charge back which is your last attempt to get your money back!

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