Convoy L2/L6 modding thread

972 posts / 0 new
Last post
Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 16 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 12408
Location: LI NY

4% (@start) to 6.5% (@30 secs) loss for the UCLp that supposed to have a 97% translucent rating. Hhhmmm. It's a fairly big difference - the 4% to 6.5%. I assume the cool down time was pretty long between trials because of the battery re-charging.

What's the thickness of the stock glass lens? The UCLp is 2.25 mm - wonder if that's factor, and if measuring without the lens is somehow measuring differently in the pipe light box, if that's what you are using - or a sphere. I know the pipe light box is position sensitive, but dunno of a lens/distance effect - dunno, maybe not a factor.

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 28 sec ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20396
Location: Heart of Texas

Tom, have you ever built one and then taken readings, used it, charged it up, taken readings again? It’s really rare to see the readings stay constant. I once thought it should always do the same thing, every time you tried it, but it just doesn’t work that way.

I think flashlights are female.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 16 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 12408
Location: LI NY

Yea, of course - lots of variations and still can't explain them all. Yep, been there... Technically I think there's an explanation somewhere - really think'n sometimes it's the cells since our typical DD FET builds are so dependent on them. Seems like charge cycles effect the cell resistance - whether a full charge or topping off, etc...

I got a lot of confidence in our pipe light box and luxmeters though - seen really good consistency there, when keeping the geometry consistent.

J-Dub74
J-Dub74's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 03/14/2015 - 17:17
Posts: 2231
Location: Michigan

Tom, for the record Dale uses a calibrated light sphere. His comments may not always be P.C. Facepalm but his data is quite solid. Thumbs Up

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 16 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 12408
Location: LI NY

Dale and I have the same pipe light box, made by the same person. I know he's been using it for years like I do, but I also know he more recently built a light sphere - I just dunno if he transitioned to using it. Good if he has. I have no clue what is going on why you have to be so defensive, I'm as curious as Dale is - I don't get your defending him because I'm not questioning anything, except trying to figure it out, same as I think he is.

Boy... calm down. I'm done - unsubscribed. Don't worry, you won't hear from me anymore on this.

 

will34
will34's picture
Offline
Last seen: 20 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 12/18/2012 - 00:12
Posts: 3673

I think the 97% rating from UCLp taken when the light is shining perpendicularly to the glass, with a reflector and lights going in many directions there could be some additional loses in the edge. Maybe due to the large diameter and reflector combination on the L6 somehow the stock glass happens to be more efficient.

I have never taken any measurements like Dale did but was always confident of the UCLp and believed it to be much better than a regular AR glass, although not as good as a a real optical grade glass.

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 44 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 8569
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

It is nice that it only drops about 10% output even with the FET driver. Makes me glad I decided to go ahead with the TA driver for the L6. Particularly that narsil now supports thermal management.

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 28 sec ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20396
Location: Heart of Texas

I couldn’t get used to the sphere, gave it away and am still using my P Trap from manxbuggy and rdrfronty. Me, Tom and Richard, as well as manxbuggy and rdrfronty, all use the same P Trap design light box.

I learned over the past several years to not rely so heavily on the numbers but to enjoy the beam profile and actual output/throw/spill when in use. That is, after all, why I build em and push em (ok, I push em cause it’s just fun)

No worries Tom, it’s all good.

J-Dub74
J-Dub74's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 03/14/2015 - 17:17
Posts: 2231
Location: Michigan

Tom E wrote:

Dale and I have the same pipe light box, made by the same person. I know he’s been using it for years like I do, but I also know he more recently built a light sphere – I just dunno if he transitioned to using it. Good if he has. I have no clue what is going on why you have to be so defensive, I’m as curious as Dale is – I don’t get your defending him because I’m not questioning anything, except trying to figure it out, same as I think he is.


Boy… calm down. I’m done – unsubscribed. Don’t worry, you won’t hear from me anymore on this.


 


Tom, I’m quite confused here. Perhaps something came across different than I intended? I wasn’t being defensive and I’m not in the least bit worked up about anything said here. Dale doesn’t need defending as far as I know. I just remember him telling me he was using a calibrated light sphere so I stated that. It most definitely was not intended as any slight towards you or anyone else for that matter.

I certainly don’t want you to unsubscribe as I have a huge amount of respect for your work and want your input just like I want that of all those here. Particularly those like yourself, Dale and many others who are much more experienced than I am.

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 28 sec ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20396
Location: Heart of Texas

Just went back to the Black L6 to test amp draw at the tail. Cells haven’t been recharged, it’s showing 11.38A with the clamp meter. If I remember correctly (which would be a small miracle) it was making 11.7A on fresh cells which goes a long way towards explaining the rapid drop on the 4500mAh cells. Wink Thought I’d toss that out there…

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 39 sec ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 11900
Location: Houston Texas

DB Custom wrote:
I sold my modified black L6 with the de-domed XP-G2 emitter, it’s 439Kcd was needed in Greece. Wink

My XHP-35 L2


Dale, did you do any kind of write up on these 2 lights? I looked through your started threads and didn’t see them. I was thinking of the L2 with xhp35 myself to make a cheap version of the Acebeam K70 since it’s got a pretty steep price.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 28 sec ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20396
Location: Heart of Texas

I just used 4 of the fat 26350 cells in the L2, used one of Neven’s LD-2 drivers set up for ~3A with moon as I recall. I think it’s making some 326Kcd and almost 3000 lumens.

Configuring the led4power LD-2 driver can be a bit tricky as some of those components that have to be added are super small.

TexasAce is about ready to go with his own driver that will do this, you should probably give him a shout out for this mod of yours. Wink

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 44 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 8569
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

I should actually be running some XHP35 tests with the Texas Avenger drivers in the next week or so, just got to clear a few hours of time to sit down and do it. I also have an L2 standing by for an XHP35 mod if it works.

J-Dub74
J-Dub74's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 03/14/2015 - 17:17
Posts: 2231
Location: Michigan

JasonWW wrote:
DB Custom wrote:
I sold my modified black L6 with the de-domed XP-G2 emitter, it’s 439Kcd was needed in Greece. Wink

My XHP-35 L2


Dale, did you do any kind of write up on these 2 lights? I looked through your started threads and didn’t see them. I was thinking of the L2 with xhp35 myself to make a cheap version of the Acebeam K70 since it’s got a pretty steep price.

If you’re going for big throw you should go with the L6 and smooth reflector as opposed to the L2. Both are very good throwers but the L6 will hit higher numbers thanks to the larger reflector. I think Dale’s best L6 thrower build is hitting around 100 Kcd higher than his best L2 thrower build. Thumbs Up
giorgoskok
giorgoskok's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 31 sec ago
Joined: 11/13/2015 - 10:46
Posts: 2670
Location: Greece

L2 can also hit hard with dedomed xp-g2 . More than the xhp35.

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 39 sec ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 11900
Location: Houston Texas

3000! I thought the xhp35 peaked at around 2200 lumen at around 3 amps.

Did you have to cut out the aluminum base and drop in a copper slug or was it pretty straight forward?

Heres my plan:
Get a good quality xhp35 on as big a copper PCB as will fit and drop it in.
What centering ring did you use?
Use 4 26350 batteries.
Then focus on the driver, their 22mm I believe. Is TxAce making a boost driver for single battery use or still for 4 batteries?

Sound about right, or am I overlooking something?

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 39 sec ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 11900
Location: Houston Texas

giorgoskok wrote:
L2 can also hit hard with dedomed xp-g2 . More than the xhp35.

I like this idea because you can use the short battery tube and a single 26650 for a more compact light. Plus the driver is simpler, I could probably use a 7135 based driver and adjust the current very precisely. Might be cheaper to build as well.

I wanna keep costs down as I don’t really need a mega thrower, it’s just the novelty of it. Lol.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

J-Dub74
J-Dub74's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 03/14/2015 - 17:17
Posts: 2231
Location: Michigan

giorgoskok wrote:
L2 can also hit hard with dedomed xp-g2 . More than the xhp35.

Definitely. I have one built as you describe. I’d have to look back through a a bunch of old messages but it’s hitting somewhere between 320 and 350 Kcd with a crazy pencil thin beam. Very lightsaber-like. Big Smile
JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 39 sec ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 11900
Location: Houston Texas

J-Dub74 wrote:
giorgoskok wrote:
L2 can also hit hard with dedomed xp-g2 . More than the xhp35.

Definitely. I have one built as you describe. I’d have to look back through a a bunch of old messages but it’s hitting somewhere between 320 and 350 Kcd with a crazy pencil thin beam. Very lightsaber-like. Big Smile

Just out of curiosity, was the beam still usable or does it get too narrow? I’ve never seem beam shots of the little xpg2.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 28 sec ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20396
Location: Heart of Texas

A few corrections… The L6 thrower I did was a buck driver to an de-domed XP-G2 at 5.5A. The L2 thrower is an XHP-35 at 3.13A with the LD-2 driver. Different creations.

A short tube L2 with XP-G2 will not pull the amperage that it takes to really make it hit hard. This is why we are using buck drivers and two cells to push 5.5A. It’ll still be nice, just not maximum.

The XHP-35 does around 2200 lumens at some 1.87A or thereabouts. Max current is supposedly 2A. At some 2.8A it makes 2600 or so lumens. And when pushed right up against the wall at 3A or a bit more, I’ve seen 2986 lumens. I’ll say again that every time I use this one at 3.13A I expect it to go poof.

J-Dub74
J-Dub74's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 03/14/2015 - 17:17
Posts: 2231
Location: Michigan

JasonWW wrote:
J-Dub74 wrote:
giorgoskok wrote:
L2 can also hit hard with dedomed xp-g2 . More than the xhp35.

Definitely. I have one built as you describe. I’d have to look back through a a bunch of old messages but it’s hitting somewhere between 320 and 350 Kcd with a crazy pencil thin beam. Very lightsaber-like. Big Smile

Just out of curiosity, was the beam still usable or does it get too narrow? I’ve never seem beam shots of the little xpg2.

That’s a matter of opinion really. In my experience it’s quite poor for anything up close (50 feet or less). It’s not that you can’t use it, it’s just not very practical. When I took it up to my mom’s place in the dark woodlands of northern Michigan is where I REALLY fell in love with it. From my mom’s deck down to the bottom of the valley is around 800 feet or so. Deer come out to the edge of the woods at night to feed on some of the greenery growing there. Lighting them up from her deck at 800 feet and more is no problem though I had to look through binoculars to tell if they were deer or coyotes. They’re so small at that distance that they’re just tiny moving brownish shapes with glowing eyes. Grad
JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 39 sec ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 11900
Location: Houston Texas

DB Custom wrote:

A short tube L2 with XP-G2 will not pull the amperage that it takes to really make it hit hard. This is why we are using buck drivers and two cells to push 5.5A. It’ll still be nice, just not maximum.

Okay, so if I were to use an L2 host (cheaper than an L6 + smo reflector) and put a dedomed xpg2 in it, a single battery would have too much voltage drop at 5.5 amps and reduce output?

I know a 26650 can put out good amps, so it must be the voltage drop that’s reducing power, right?

So 2 big 26650 and a buck driver must keep the voltage higher and give you that maximum punch.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 39 sec ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 11900
Location: Houston Texas

J-Dub74 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
J-Dub74 wrote:
giorgoskok wrote:
L2 can also hit hard with dedomed xp-g2 . More than the xhp35.

Definitely. I have one built as you describe. I’d have to look back through a a bunch of old messages but it’s hitting somewhere between 320 and 350 Kcd with a crazy pencil thin beam. Very lightsaber-like. Big Smile

Just out of curiosity, was the beam still usable or does it get too narrow? I’ve never seem beam shots of the little xpg2.

That’s a matter of opinion really. In my experience it’s quite poor for anything up close (50 feet or less). It’s not that you can’t use it, it’s just not very practical. When I took it up to my mom’s place in the dark woodlands of northern Michigan is where I REALLY fell in love with it. From my mom’s deck down to the bottom of the valley is around 800 feet or so. Deer come out to the edge of the woods at night to feed on some of the greenery growing there. Lighting them up from her deck at 800 feet and more is no problem though I had to look through binoculars to tell if they were deer or coyotes. They’re so small at that distance that they’re just tiny moving brownish shapes with glowing eyes. Grad

Have you seen any pictures or videos of a light with a similar hot spot size? I was surprised by how usable the Acebeam K70 beam appeared. It got me thinking a max thrower is not so bad.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

J-Dub74
J-Dub74's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 03/14/2015 - 17:17
Posts: 2231
Location: Michigan

JasonWW wrote:
J-Dub74 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
J-Dub74 wrote:
giorgoskok wrote:
L2 can also hit hard with dedomed xp-g2 . More than the xhp35.

Definitely. I have one built as you describe. I’d have to look back through a a bunch of old messages but it’s hitting somewhere between 320 and 350 Kcd with a crazy pencil thin beam. Very lightsaber-like. Big Smile

Just out of curiosity, was the beam still usable or does it get too narrow? I’ve never seem beam shots of the little xpg2.

That’s a matter of opinion really. In my experience it’s quite poor for anything up close (50 feet or less). It’s not that you can’t use it, it’s just not very practical. When I took it up to my mom’s place in the dark woodlands of northern Michigan is where I REALLY fell in love with it. From my mom’s deck down to the bottom of the valley is around 800 feet or so. Deer come out to the edge of the woods at night to feed on some of the greenery growing there. Lighting them up from her deck at 800 feet and more is no problem though I had to look through binoculars to tell if they were deer or coyotes. They’re so small at that distance that they’re just tiny moving brownish shapes with glowing eyes. Grad

Have you seen any pictures or videos of a light with a similar hot spot size? I was surprised by how usable the Acebeam K70 beam appeared. It got me thinking a max thrower is not so bad.

I don’t know about video but there are some beam shots of it in the L2 thread.

I can try to find them later unless Dale has them handy… He built it. LOL Thumbs Up

It’s the one with the copper ring spacer between the head and bezel. Pictured right here in the OP. Smile

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 28 sec ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20396
Location: Heart of Texas

With a hard pushed de-domed XP-G2 the hot spot is really tight and the spill is really dim. Most of the ~1100 lumens is going downrange. As such, it’s not great for walking because the hot spot is about 8” around in front of you and the spill is really insufficient to illuminate the surroundings. That’s where the “pencil beam” effect causes a gap in real world usage. It’s doable, but not preferable.

sidecross
sidecross's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 5 months ago
Joined: 10/31/2015 - 18:55
Posts: 711
Location: North America

This is an outstanding thread with good information; my appreciation to everyone. Smile

“You must have a plan, if you don’t have a plan, you will become part of someone else’s plan.” Terence McKenna

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 39 sec ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 11900
Location: Houston Texas

DB Custom wrote:
With a hard pushed de-domed XP-G2 the hot spot is really tight and the spill is really dim. Most of the ~1100 lumens is going downrange. As such, it’s not great for walking because the hot spot is about 8” around in front of you and the spill is really insufficient to illuminate the surroundings. That’s where the “pencil beam” effect causes a gap in real world usage. It’s doable, but not preferable.

I’ve got plenty of walking lights, I just wanted to make sure that the hotspot at 300 feet wasnt so small that you can’t tell a tree from a bush. When it’s too laser like, well, it’s like a laser. You can’t tell what it’s illuminating. Smile

I took up to much space here. I’ll do some more reading in the forums. Thanks

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

giorgoskok
giorgoskok's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 31 sec ago
Joined: 11/13/2015 - 10:46
Posts: 2670
Location: Greece
DB Custom wrote:
A short tube L2 with XP-G2 will not pull the amperage that it takes to really make it hit hard. This is why we are using buck drivers and two cells to push 5.5A. It’ll still be nice, just not maximum.

I still remember a great C8 Mitko made using xp-g2 s2 2b , about a year ago , using fet driver and single cell, running @ 5.5amps for ~175kcd .
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/42183

Higher binned xp-g2 s4 2b (old production) needs less current (4.3-4.5) to achieve a better result in the same host (around 192kcd). I have some of the old s4 leds running @ 4.3amps (single cell) without an issue .

I’m using C8 because i know the numbers for sure.

Flashy Mike
Flashy Mike's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: 01/14/2016 - 16:38
Posts: 1187
Location: Germany

My most useful thrower currently is a L2 with XP-L V6 1A dedomed and FET+1 driver. It pulls almost 6 amperes of a single fresh Liitokala 5200 for 280 kCd and 1400 lumens. The light is very handy with its short tube, the spot has a reasonable size and runtime is suffizient.
The only thing I miss is a reverse clicky, haven’t found any yet in the size needed.

pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 13 min ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6420
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA

Flashy Mike wrote:
The only thing I miss is a reverse clicky, haven’t found any yet in the size needed.

Huh? I’m using a little omten 1288 in mine, it works great. I don’t remember having to do anything special to make it fit.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

Pages