Can someone please make sense of this?

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BrianK
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Can someone please make sense of this?

I grabbed one of the TG06 lights that I have placed around my home in spots where I traditionally need extra light for fine work, and it didn’t work. I had recently charged the cell. I popped it into the charger to see what the voltage was as a double check. Yup, fully charged and still not working.

So I checked continuity of the switch. That was good. I put the cell back in and tried it again. No joy. BTW, after every troubleshooting step I put the cell back in and tried it. I unscrewed the brass ring to take the driver and led out. I have no idea how to get the LED out. The driver was free, but the LED wasn’t budging. Pushing on the glass did nothing. I still don’t know how to get that out (if anyone knows I’d like to have that knowledge). I reassembled everything and still no light.

Then I decided to take one that is working and test the resistance between the driver and the body and did the same with the dead TG06. I got a huge value that was somewhat close to the first. Then I reassembled the light and there was light. How can checking resistance get a light to work? Or was something going on that is unrelated to that? If I hadn’t been checking it right along with the cell I wouldn’t think it was the meter that did the magic.

Thanks!

Rufusbduck
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If the brass driver retailing ring was not tight in the first place then the light wouldn’t work, it grounds the driver but only if snug. Tightening it and the switch retainer are two of the first things to try in a torch that doesn’t light.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

BrianK
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Sorry, I failed to state that.

It was tight and tested it afterward. It still didn’t work.

Rufusbduck
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Something wasn’t making contact or changed on reassembly. Sometimes a switch button presses just enough to open the contacts on a reverse clicky, shaving the nub or slightly less torque on the retaining ring can fix that. Could be a cold joint in the solder somewhere that needs mechanical compression to make contact, could be a lot of things. Lights are more complicated than they used to be. Better designs and nicer beams but still lots of things to go wrong.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

BrianK
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Yeah, that’s what I was thinking too, and yet hoping against. I’d really like to trust this light, but it’s in a place where trust isn’t fully required.

Thanks Rufus! (But I didn’t want to hear that) Smile

I hate intermittent electrical problems.

Rufusbduck
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What I would do is look at all the non-solder mechanically accessible possibilities. Basically tear it down, clean it, and reassemble it paying attention to testing the switch both outside and in place and visually checking any solder joints accessible. The switch button is a surprisingly common culprit, a hair too much compression and the switch is partially depressed breaking contact. A hair trigger is nicer than slop but can be inconsistent in its own fashion. This would bug me to distraction, I hope you figure it out.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

DEL
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These make great little AA hosts. Most of mine have 219C emitters swapped in.

For access to the LED: Once you unscrew the driver retaining ring, you have to unscrew the emitter pill as well. There is probably a better way to do this, but I used a needle-nose poked into the emitter wire holes.

If it happens again, try to see if you have a short or open circuit. (Use a current meter at the tail.) I would take a hard look at the soldering of the inductor coil on the driver board. Unfortunately it is a surface mount package, so not obvious to check.

BrianK
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Del, there’s nothing for me to unscrew (that I can see) after the retaining ring is removed. The plate (I assumed it was the driver) just sorta hangs there blocking further access. I didn’t pull on it because I thought it was hanging by wires leading to the emitter. What am I missing? Should I just try to increase the angle it hangs at to gain access?

BTW, I have a habit of breaking things. That’s why I’m treading softly here.

Tom E
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Mine came apart pretty easy:

I think the LED/reflector come out when the pill comes out? I think the bezel does not unscrew, sorry it's been a while. Also the "new" design is different than the old one. Sometimes you gotta drill guide holes in the brass pill edge on lights like this, but can't recall bout the TG06. I have both new and old, but @work now - no access to them.

Or as DEL says - can use a needlenose in the wire holes.

Also refer to this thread for more info on the TG06, if you haven't already: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/39040

My mod details at post #53: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/792093#comment-792093, but that was the "old" design 

 

 

hank
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A retaining ring may feel tight and still have a chunk of grit under it so there’s a gap between it and the driver.
You need to get a clear picture of the pill— the brass thing that has the LED on one side, and the driver and retaining ring on the other.

The retaining ring screws into the pill. The pill screws into the flashlight tube.

BrianK
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OK, I was able to tilt the driver enough to use the wire holes to unscrew the pill from the light body. I used the straight probe that came with my ring plier set and only one hole. Actually I had more wire available between the driver and the emitter than I knew since the wires were sorta twisted to have them take up less space between the emitter and the driver. Next time I think the driver will nestle quite nicely between the plier jaws and I’ll be able to use both holes. Heck, it’s easy once one realizes that there’s more wire packed in there. Smile

It was working yesterday after I finished fussing with it and it is again today after the total disassembly and reassembly. I still don’t know what the problem was so I guess I’ll just wait for it to happen again, or not.

But I’m not above looking for problems at this point… modding…

DEL, question on the 219C emitters… same driver is used? More output? Different tint? What would I gain?

TomE, yeah I read about your mod of this light. That’s just insane output from this light!

DEL
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BrianK wrote:
DEL, question on the 219C emitters… same driver is used? More output? Different tint? What would I gain?

Nice going on the disassembly. It is a peculiar one, no removable bezel and the driver ring screws to the body directly, rather than to the pill.

There are worse stock tints out there, but I found mine too cold. Went with the 219C for the tint, and because I had a bunch spare. Output is probably slightly less, assuming the driver is regulating LED current. Nothing noticeable though. Run-time should be slightly longer, again assuming current regulation.

It is an easy swap, no driver or LED centering gasket issues.

hank
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Quote:
Different tint? What would I gain?

More realistic color appearance of whatever you’re lighting up.

Rufusbduck
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CRI stands fir color rendering index so high CRI LEDs tend to illuminate more true to daylight colors. The 219 C is a Nichia brand emitter with the same footprint as XPE, XPG, XPL, etc. some have 80 CRI which is decent and they have a somewhat low forward voltage so they draw pretty high current with direct drive fet drivers but also have slightly lower output than the XPG-2. Tint is a personal thing, some don’t mind a green or blue tint in the corona or a bluish cast overall and others prefer something easier on the eyes. Also, cooler tints show contrast a bit better and can obtain higher output because they have less of the layered phosphors that make the warmer tints.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

BrianK
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Thanks guys.

BrianK
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Arrggghhh! The first TG06 (above) is still working fine, now my nightly EDC TG06 light isn’t working. I was using it last night and it just quit working while it was in use.

So here’s what I did.

I wasn’t going to do a lot of troubleshooting last night at zero dark thirty, but I did some. I took the working TG06 to check parts of the non-working one. I put the tail of the non-working light (nwl) onto the working light (wl). It worked in the wl. So the switch is OK. To double check I took the tail from the wl and put it in the nwl. Nothing. So the problem is somewhere between there and the emitter. BTW, it’s a freshly charged cell. Then I checked the rings and everything was snug. The freshly charged cell from the nwl works fine in the wl.

Today I took the light apart and looked things over as best I could. Everything appears to be OK, but that stuff is tiny! I cleaned things up checking for a piece of crud and reassembled it. Still nothing. Then I tried to adjust the snugness of the switch retaining ring. Again, nothing. I checked for resistance between the body and center of the driver. With the meter set to 20M I got a reading of 6.16. Nothing in the other direction. When I had the pill out and was looking at the connections on the LED I noticed that the heat paste under the LED was dry so I added a tiny dot of fresh heat paste. Could the emitter have gotten fried from the dry paste? I almost never use the light above the dimmest output but the light does come on in its highest output and I switch it to low after a brief flash.

I’m using an AWT 14500 button top cell with a magnet to make contact.

Guys, I don’t know a lot about these lights and frankly I’ve done what I know to do, and I even did some of what I didn’t know to do.

I’m open to suggestions.

Rufusbduck
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You can test the emitter directly by applying leads from the cell directly to the solder bumps on the mcpcb even still connected to the driver but without the cell in the light. Be careful not to short the wires. A couple of paper clips taped to the ends will serve in a pinch but squeeze them to be sure of contact. Flux on the solder can inhibit current so clean with alcohol first(it won’t harm anything else). If the led flunks you need to replace it and if it passes then you need a new driver.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

BrianK
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Thanks!

Well, it’s easy when you know how Smile . The emitter is dead.

You think that was due to the heat paste being dust?

Edit 1: OK, new emitter. Will this work?

It came with an xp-g2 (R5). Measuring the pill tells me it’s either 15 or 16mm.

Edit 2: I just checked the working light and the heat paste appeared dry so I added a dot to it. Does heat paste normally dry out? FWIW, I’m using arctic alumina. I thought heat paste remained pasty, yes/no? Was I correct in adding a bit?

Lexel
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Get a warmer tint the 3D or 3A are really nice
http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_62...

You can use XP-G3, XPL HI or Nichia 219 as well

You can sand or file the board to a smaller diameter, just make sure the base has no short to the solderpads

BrianK
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What do those other LEDs offer? Hey, I’m a noob, it needs to be explained, but I do appreciate what you’ve given.

Rufusbduck
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That led will work fine. In fact, 1D is my favorite of the cooler tints. The XP G3 offers a bit more output with a more robust die(no bond wires to melt or break), the XPL is an XML die on an XP footprint substrate(the HI means instead of a dome it is flat giving slightly less output but a tighter beam than non HI versions of XPL), and the 219C is another XP size emitter with a bit less output but low forward voltage and a very robust die(tough to kill and has a nice tint too)

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

BrianK
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Thanks. I like the idea of more rugged with more output.

Rufusbduck
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Hard to go wrong with the current crop of emitters but it is fun to try different ones to see which set of plus/minus’s pleases you most.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott