Review: The new HaikeLite MT07 - Buffalo XHP70 thrower

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blueb8llz
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i think this light can very well compete with the acebeam k60 as far as performance. 5000 lumens and 132kcd is respectable. but i agree with what dbcustom said…its pretty much last years numbers. I would have liked to see 6000 or more lumens. considering the size of the heatsink, i would have expected longer runtime than 5 minutes on turbo. most lights can only run turbo for 2-3 minutes, but their head and heatsink is nowhere as large as this mt07. my modded tn36ut can run at 8000 lumens for 5 minutes, and its alot smaller.
i’m not sure if haikelite will be coming out with a smo reflector for this light, but if not, shaving the dome will be a good idea for a light like this. vinh said shaving the dome off of xhp70 on a op reflector makes the beam perfect and completely eliminates the donut hole effect. at least this is what happened with the k60.

i like the fact the light is under $100 and great value for what you get. the double switch and ui is great. and the easy to mod makes it even better.
but the thing i would like changed is the heatsink or the handle. im guessing its too late now to change the design up drastically. but i think the light should have been 1 inch shorter at the head. it seems very top heavy. and since i think the diameter of the reflector matters more than the depth for throw, it would have been very minimal decrease in the throw department. this way, the user can hold the light by the handle and the smooth surface where the switches are…instead of holding the light by the handle and to the heatsink.

ps. the price has been listed….its $95

Flashy Mike
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The Miller
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Very nice review of a very nicelight!
(nice they engraved Tom E on it, can we order them with a custom engraving too Wink Lol joking)

unknown00101
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Tom E wrote:

Yikes! If I tested all modes, that's 228 + 32 + 18 + 10 + 8 + 98*24 hours, or  2,648 hours.
Ok, without moon mode it's only : 296 hours, or 12 1/3 days - not bad surprised. I'd only lose 8 days of income, several $K there, (I only get paid for hours worked), and no sleep of course undecided.

Ok - maybe only turbo... Just one full work day or long evening... frown

Might have to figure a way to work @home while this goes on... Hhhmmm, or be able to bring everything into work and watch while typing away... Might be do-able laughing.

Just turbo would be nice. Not even the whole run would be necessary. It would just be good to be able to see how far they drop it down in order to achieve 8 Hours.

That has to be a ridiculously massive drop to squeeze out that much time.

Tom E
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For the runtimes, I'm getting curious now. I'll ask them as well, but still would like to do an independent test.

For the S/N, I was trying to figure it out. After the year it's a letter, 3 digits, letter... repeating... and the #'s are 0002, 0003, 0004, and the letters are: H-A-I-K-L. Interesting... There were a couple more review units sent out. I've been pm'ing with bluzie and he's getting the MT03, but got messed up in customs so still another couple weeks.

leaftye
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It might have extra data in it like a vin.

The low mode should be lower.

Reviews: Efan IMR18350 700mAh 10.5A, <a href="http://

Tom E
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Added a turbo mode discharge curve in the OP. About 7 minutes in, there's a big drop, then the rest is a slow drop off

unknown00101
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Thank you Tom, very much appreciated.

Couple more Q’s if that’s okay:

Can you bump it back up into turbo after the stepdown?

Does it always drop at the ~7 minute mark after activating turbo or is there thermal regulation?

Tom E
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unknown00101 wrote:
Thank you Tom, very much appreciated. Couple more Q's if that's okay: Can you bump it back up into turbo after the stepdown? Does it always drop at the ~7 minute mark after activating turbo or is there thermal regulation?

The bump up should work, but not sure exactly how - probably just a click on the mode change button but whether it goes into turbo or back down to lowest mode is the question. Cells are at 2.9V now and still getting the BLUE LED blinking, so according to the specs, that's at 9% or above - not sure if that's right.

Earlier I did a 6 minute test and it didn't drop down. In the run, it dropped at the 7 minute mark exactly. No time now to test - got an appt for the car, then to work. Think the best test to do would be run it again til it drops down, then turn OFF, back ON turbo, and being that it's hot, see if it drops at 7 minutes again (timed) or earlier (thermal sensor).

I gotta do some R&D on charting tools - Excel is very frustrating to control... I got external temperatures to plot too.

unknown00101
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Thanks for the info.

Yeah Excel can be a pain to get it to do what you want.

To get the axis right I believe in the axis format I changed to dates then did some minor tweaks to get proper spacing and numbers.

Dual axis for outputs and temps is more complicated and very fickle. Should be some helpful vids on YouTube though.

hIKARInoob
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I’m a bit puzzled here. The light drops down to 2000 lumens after 30 minutes, even though this light has got huge heat sinking. Olight X7/Thrunite TN36-UT can produce 4000+ lumens continuously with much less mass…

unknown00101
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hIKARInoob wrote:
I’m a bit puzzled here. The light drops down to 2000 lumens after 30 minutes, even though this light has got huge heat sinking. Olight X7/Thrunite TN36-UT can produce 4000+ lumens continuously with much less mass…

Well the Mt07 does about 4800lm for 7 minutes and drops to a little over 2k lm.
The X7 does about 5500lm for about 10 minutes before dropping to a little under 2k lm due to thermal regulation.

Ambient temps and general settings can be a factor. I suspect the MT07 is a fair bit cooler at the time of the drop and the drop itself may be timed.

Tom E
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Where did you see the Olight X7 running 4000+ lumens continuously? If its not true, why would you make this claim?

What about the TN36-UT running 4000+ lumens continuously? Where is this tested, documented, claimed, proved?

Continuously is a bold statement without a time frame - minutes, hours, days, til the cells drain?

 

 

hIKARInoob
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Tom E wrote:

Where did you see the Olight X7 running 4000+ lumens continuously? If its not true, why would you make this claim?


What about the TN36-UT running 4000+ lumens continuously? Where is this tested, documented, claimed, proved?


Continuously is a bold statement without a time frame – minutes, hours, days, til the cells drain?


 


 

Thrunite TN36-UT: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/41087
Olight X7: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?423480-Olight-X7-Mara...(3x-XHP70-4x-18650)

The test were done cooled. However, without cooling the X7 does indeed stablise at 2000+ lumens. Although the efficacy of three XHP70 at 2000+ lumens is better than a single XHP, the MT07 does have so much more mass and surface area than the X7/TN36-UT

hIKARInoob
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unknown00101 wrote:

Ambient temps and general settings can be a factor. I suspect the MT07 is a fair bit cooler at the time of the drop and the drop itself may be timed.

True. But does it make sense to have a timed drop to ~2000 lumens? Indeed ambient temperature does make a lot of difference…

Edit: ok, another question related to this. According to Haikelite, this light has got “timed thermal” regulation. What is this? If a light is regulated by temperature, what do you need the timed regulation for?

EasyB
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hIKARInoob wrote:
unknown00101 wrote:

Ambient temps and general settings can be a factor. I suspect the MT07 is a fair bit cooler at the time of the drop and the drop itself may be timed.

True. But does it make sense to have a timed drop to ~2000 lumens? Indeed ambient temperature does make a lot of difference…

Edit: ok, another question related to this. According to Haikelite, this light has got “timed thermal” regulation. What is this? If a light is regulated by temperature, what do you need the timed regulation for?

I interpret “timed thermal” regulation as just a timed output drop. It probably does not have a temperature sensor. The driver is not as fancy as the X7. I don’t see this as such a big issue. In most use situations you can just pop it back into turbo mode if you want.

Tom E
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This light is very different from an Olight X7 in many ways - thrower vs. flooder, more efficiency from 3 XHP70's vs. one, etc. The X7 is comparable to the MT03 which is a smaller in size and weight from the MT07.

Checking my notes, there is a 4S variation of the MT07 - the one reviewed is 2S2P. I opted to review the 2S2P version. The 4S version is said to have full current regulation, shorter run times, and recommended to use protected batteries.

Also found in my notes this from HaikeLite:

Timed Thermal step-down
On turbo mode the light will detect the temperature after 5 minutes, when the temp is higher than 55 degree after 5 minute, it will step down to high. If the temp is not over 55 degree after 5 minutes, it will stay on Turbo without step-down.

So, I'll try to confirm it this evening. This explains why it lowered at 7 minutes, I had no extra cooling - fan or otherwise during the testing. Basically, if it steps down after 5 minutes, you can switch back to turbo and get another 5 minutes of turbo level output.

hIKARInoob
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EasyB wrote:
hIKARInoob wrote:
unknown00101 wrote:

Ambient temps and general settings can be a factor. I suspect the MT07 is a fair bit cooler at the time of the drop and the drop itself may be timed.

True. But does it make sense to have a timed drop to ~2000 lumens? Indeed ambient temperature does make a lot of difference…

Edit: ok, another question related to this. According to Haikelite, this light has got “timed thermal” regulation. What is this? If a light is regulated by temperature, what do you need the timed regulation for?

I interpret “timed thermal” regulation as just a timed output drop. It probably does not have a temperature sensor. The driver is not as fancy as the X7. I don’t see this as such a big issue. In most use situations you can just pop it back into turbo mode if you want.

Funny, after reading your post it made sense to me: it’s time controlled (and if it steps down, the temperature will drop). This makes sense. Thanks.

hIKARInoob
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Tom E wrote:

This light is very different from an Olight X7 in many ways – thrower vs. flooder, more efficiency from 3 XHP70’s vs. one, etc. The X7 is comparable to the MT03 which is a smaller in size and weight from the MT07.


Checking my notes, there is a 4S variation of the MT07 – the one reviewed is 2S2P. I opted to review the 2S2P version. The 4S version is said to have full current regulation, shorter run times, and recommended to use protected batteries.


Also found in my notes this from HaikeLite:


Timed Thermal step-down
On turbo mode the light will detect the temperature after 5 minutes, when the temp is higher than 55 degree after 5 minute, it will step down to high. If the temp is not over 55 degree after 5 minutes, it will stay on Turbo without step-down.


So, I’ll try to confirm it this evening. This explains why it lowered at 7 minutes, I had no extra cooling – fan or otherwise during the testing. Basically, if it steps down after 5 minutes, you can switch back to turbo and get another 5 minutes of turbo level output.

Alright let me explain. Yes the X7/TN36-UT are different beasts. The reason I brought these lights up was of the much higher output it can sustain when cooled (I interpret this as just walking outside), although the amount of mass/heat sinking is much less. Yes, efficacy difference is present. How much I don’t know; not calculated… But initially, it seems (no proof here) that the step down to 2000+ lumens for the MT07 is drastic.

So the MT07 seems to be checking temperature after 5 minutes. The sensor for the temperature is not part of a feedback control system; the light just reduces to 2000+ lumens if the temperature exceeds a certain fixed (55 degrees) value. Two scenarios for simplification:

1) You’re walking outside with this light, meaning heat transfer via hands and via air due to light breeze ==> cooling

2) Light is being used as a lantern inside / runtime test without cooling ==> no cooling

The manufacturer, in this case Haikelite, is not able to know the scenario, as the light is not using the temperature sensor in a feedback controlled system. Therefore the manufacturer must assume the worst case to prevent over heating of the light; meaning there is no cooling. This means that output must be reduced as if there is no cooling even though in reality there might be cooling. An output of 2000+ lumens is the outcome. It is possible that with a feedback control thermal regulation, the MT07 is capable of an output of 4500 lumens (example) while keeping temperature constant. The MT07 has got more heat sinking (I think)than the single XHP70 competitors, like the L6 and K60, but is not able to exploit this to the fullest due to a semi rigid control system, i.e. fixed time with fixed temperature (if this is true). Of course you can switch off and on, but either temperature will exceed 55 degrees (which you don’t want), or it steps down dramatically… With a feedback control thermal regulation, you can truly benefit the massiveness of the MT07.

For the record, I have absolutely no criticism of the MT07 or Haikelite, not to mention that the price is amazing IMHO. This is just food for thought.

unknown00101
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Tom E wrote:

This light is very different from an Olight X7 in many ways - thrower vs. flooder, more efficiency from 3 XHP70's vs. one, etc. The X7 is comparable to the MT03 which is a smaller in size and weight from the MT07.

Checking my notes, there is a 4S variation of the MT07 - the one reviewed is 2S2P. I opted to review the 2S2P version. The 4S version is said to have full current regulation, shorter run times, and recommended to use protected batteries.

Also found in my notes this from HaikeLite:

Timed Thermal step-down
On turbo mode the light will detect the temperature after 5 minutes, when the temp is higher than 55 degree after 5 minute, it will step down to high. If the temp is not over 55 degree after 5 minutes, it will stay on Turbo without step-down.

So, I'll try to confirm it this evening. This explains why it lowered at 7 minutes, I had no extra cooling - fan or otherwise during the testing. Basically, if it steps down after 5 minutes, you can switch back to turbo and get another 5 minutes of turbo level output.

Oh nice I did not know there was a 4S version as well. Very interesting. I look forward to seeing what you find out. It sounds like the 4S might be more my kind of light though.

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Ohh - I knew it, than forgot it... frown Now that I see the run time with the dropping output, I'd probably be more interested in the 4S version as well, with current regulation. I guess my thinking though was for modding, and I'd rather mod a 2S2P XHP70 light rather than a 4S light.

will34
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Two versions… now I’m really interested in the 4S one

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I do wonder what the runtime curve of the 4S will be like. Theoretically it can give a flat output, but your’re still stuck with the thermal regulation if it is the same as this 2S2P variant (at least they way we think it is). Meaning, you will have flat output of 5000 lumens, but after 5 minutes, temperature is checked, and if temperature of 55 degrees is exceeded, then output drops to flat, constant 2000+ lumens. So overall, performance will be similar with a 4S variant compared to the current 2S2P variant. Of course, it may have a different timed/temperature control as well resulting in a different runtime curve… Who knows…
Nah, my guess is that the thermal regulation of both 2S2P and 4S are more sophisticated than what we’ve seen so far. With cooling, you probable get something between 2000 and 5000 lumens.

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Here's thermal test results I just ran. From being cold, it took 6 mins, 26 secs to step down. Pass #2 was run immediately following Pass #1, so the temperature remained fairly high. It stepped down at exactly 5 mins, but got 12C higher on the outside. Temperature readings were measured with an IR thermometer.

After it stepped down, mode change cycled to the 1st mode, so it appeared to think it was still on turbo mode.

I would say it worked as described - minimum of 5 minutes on turbo, then over temperature causes a step down.

Note: the lux value is what's read off the lux meter, and a conversion factor of 0.34 is applied (this is the calibrated value I use for the PVC light box).

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Looks very promising.This is what a xhp70 single led thrower should be(4×18650 compact design, deep reflector and fully powered ) which really defeats the need for multi led alternatives whom had higher led light efficiency that is wiped out by reflector light losses from smaller reflectors yet retains increased complexity cost from manufacturing. My only complaint is the tail cap design which seems to be jutting out and looks kinda weird.

If U R reading this, U R also a Flashaholic. Pfft <3

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Tom E wrote:

This light is very different from an Olight X7 in many ways – thrower vs. flooder, more efficiency from 3 XHP70’s vs. one, etc. The X7 is comparable to the MT03 which is a smaller in size and weight from the MT07.


Checking my notes, there is a 4S variation of the MT07 – the one reviewed is 2S2P. I opted to review the 2S2P version. The 4S version is said to have full current regulation, shorter run times, and recommended to use protected batteries.


Both of the 2S2P and 4S1P configurations should offer the same runtime. You get lower overall capacity with 4S1P but the current draw from each battery is lower than the 2S2P configuration and it can also offer the flat output although with 4S1P there is a higher chance to go “Note 7” if the batteries voltage are not balance lol.
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will34 wrote:
Two versions… now I’m really interested in the 4S one

+1
leaftye
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Mine came in today, and I’ve just barely started using it. The ergonomics feels weird. I’d like it if the handle were half an inch longer, and if the step to the head were smaller or progressive. It’s okay once it’s fully gripped, but getting there doesn’t quite feel right. I love the output. Until I point it at something far away, I wouldn’t think of the light as a thrower. The moonlight is good enough. The packaging isn’t fancy at all. When you buy this light, you’re buying the light. Forget about a flashy Apple-esque unboxing. That’s not a problem for me, but for those that have issues with it, they can mod a Convoy or spend about twice as much or more on something else. The UI is intuitive for me. I played around with it and quickly figured out how to access everything but strobe and instant turbo. I think I’m their first actual full price customer, and I’d buy it again.

The low mode should be lower.

Reviews: Efan IMR18350 700mAh 10.5A, <a href="http://

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leaftye wrote:
I love the output. Until I point it at something far away, I wouldn’t think of the light as a thrower.

That is why I’m not interested. The lux figures aren’t in the realm of real throw as far as I’m concerned.
You may get lumens, but if they don’t go down range from a ‘thrower’ – what is the point? May as well buy an L6 for less cash, or other high lumen monster.

will34
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JockRobbins wrote:
The lux figures aren’t in the realm of real throw as far as I’m concerned. You may get lumens, but if they don’t go down range from a ‘thrower’ – what is the point? May as well buy an L6 for less cash, or other high lumen monster.

Not real throw!? There are hunters in this forum who uses dedomed XPG in C8s with about 160kcd and less than 1,000lm. The MT07 is very close to that number at 130kcd and delivering many times the hotspot size.

A thrower is not purely how much peak kcd it makes but how it manages to deliver usable light at long distances.

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