New VirEnce MCPCB for E17/E21/119/144/233U

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The_Driver
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Any updates?

clemence
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The last update was that the proto should be shipped within 5 weeks. That means it’s still 3 weeks to go

The_Driver
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Ok, thanks.

Jensen567
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Looking forward to those quad boards. Plan to use 4 of them with a quad optic, 16 total emitters, then put a large diffuser over the front to make a high CRI lantern. Host is a JKK36 from Kaidomain.

Will be a nice emergency lantern since it uses 3×18650 for good runtime, and has a built in power bank function in the cell holder. So I can charge my devices with it at night, and charge the lantern with a solar panel during the day.

clemence
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Update: 171016:

- 60 pcs prototypes shipped!

Sirius9
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clemence wrote:
Eye candy


Not any more…

 

clemence
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Meaning?

-X3-
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clemence wrote:
Meaning?

The pic can’t be seen

"-X3-, is there any place in your house without a flashlight ?" 

My Flashlight public album (mods, emitter swaps, eye candy)

My reviews channel (French language, Olight, Thorfire, Sofirn, Lumintop : 60+ lights tested)

My personal channel (including Olight SR mini, S1, S2, S1A and S-mini disassembly)

M4DM4X blog, saves you $$$ 

clemence
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Ah sorry about that. I changed the privacy policy of my albums…. accidentally in batch. Fixed many but I posted like hundreds of pictures, missed this one too. That was stupid, changed the policy back to it’s original state didn’t fix it. I have to do it manually one by one.
As for the picture, it’s not relevant anymore since the final designs are those in the OP. I’m still making my own test rig so don’t have to always overload Djozz with my test requests.

- Clemence

Sirius9
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Yes, I would like to see final product. I enjoy nice pics so when someone says “Eye candy” but the pic is not available that is kinda let down Wink

 

clemence
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Shipment released from the custom! LOL

clemence
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  1. Prototypes received, OP updated with the preview
Jensen567
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They look Great! Sorry to hear they are super expensive. Once they are up on the store I’ll be picking up a few regardless as I have some projects that could benefit.

steel_1024
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16mm single 144

There is no space to place the insulating gasket?

Sorry for my poor english.

clemence
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steel_1024 wrote:
There is no space to place the insulating gasket?

With such flexible options in 16mm you don’t have much room left. You better use kapton, electrical tape, or epoxy to make needed insulation.
djozz
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They look very attractive! I will surely be in for some, no matter what price they will be, more of course when they are affordable Smile

clemence
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djozz wrote:
They look very attractive! I will surely be in for some, no matter what price they will be, more of course when they are affordable Smile

Just when we though they couldn’t be more pricey, then the custom added some 40% more to the bill….. Flat Stare
I’m still trying to simulate your Djozz test here. The only datum to your test is the S3030 VirEnce board, 144AM sm653 R70, and the TASI meter test. Will report the test ASAP.

- Clemence

clemence
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Amazing #1 test result! Check the OP

- Clemence

maukka
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They’re so pretty. Can’t wait to order some!

clemence
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maukka wrote:
They’re so pretty. Can’t wait to order some!

Final touch by Texas_Ace Wink
Jensen567
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Awesome results, really excited to finally have a good option for 144A and E21A!

djozz
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Great results!
These boards are also nice for an Oslon version, because the thermal pad of Oslon Black’s (that is connected to led-minus) can then be electrically insulated from the body of the flashlight.

clemence
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Created many centering/positioning jigs, spent two VR16SP4 boards, some E21As (fortunately the R70), and one full day without success. Only later, I remember I didn’t stir the thermal paste after left in the fridge for weeks. Now the reflow works flawlessly. No gimmicks, just simple drops of solder paste and light tapping using flexible bamboo stick…..and voila! The said to be difficult to solder E21A moved themselves to the correct position. The ultra thin solder mask do works. Perfect quadtrix board!

Many manufacturers gave up on E21A because it has very little to no self aligning behaviour during reflow. Thus requires very accurate PNP and solder dosing machine. But with very thin solder mask the self align effect restored back, even at very little solder paste applied. Thinner solder bond line, easier manufacturing, at the expense of fragile solder mask.

I use Sn96,5Ag3Cu05 (max. 260C @30seconds), with Sn63Pb37 reflow should be far easier.

I still have few hours before my flight, will post later.

- Clemence

clemence
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OP updated with the latest test results of E21A

- Clemence

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I’m still wondering how in parallel config those E21As performed significantly far more efficient. I’ve never seen anything like this before. Tested some XPGs 219Cs in single and quad parallel, but the difference between the parallel vs single config were never as high as E21A.
In parallel, the current divided into 4 lower current paths hence the boost in efficiency. But look at the chart below. It’s not lumen, just measured lux from my lux meter. At the same power level (near 3A), the output already doubled. My guess is E21A is super inefficient above 2A, while in low current its the other way around. To the eye 4p was indeed much brighter than the 1s config (at the same power).
The lower voltage also a good thing, most likely due to the lower resistance not only due to the hotter 4 cramped LEDs. The voltage reduced from as low as 100mA where heat is unlikely to affect the output.
Any idea?

- Clemence

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I will have to read it all a bit closer (at work now) but that looks like a ton of good work! (it is not often that development work for new products is just published like this Smile ) And the boards work very well, that should make them, regardless of the cost, at least worthwhile for niche aplications where performance is critical (flashlights! Big Smile ), and who knows how cheap you can get them eventually. And these boards probably makes Nichia happy as well Smile

clemence
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Hi All,

I’m still waiting for the other testers to confirm about VR16SP4. This far no single complaints about the VR16S1. Looks like the VR16S1 prototype leftover is ready for sale. This board is ready to use for 144Ax, 233x, 119x. The next upgrade would be smaller pads gap to better accommodate E17A and E21A (after some scrap-mod). And perhaps better guide markings for any LED other than 144Ax. I haven’t measured the output with 233A/B Nichia UV LED, but judging from the 144A results, I’m more than sure VR16S1 is the best non DTP UV board available.

I see no strong reasons to use E17 and E21A in a single setup on VR16S1 other than they have very wide high CRI selection available. But hey, you can solder two E21As or three E17As on VR16S1 to get oval beam (2p or 3p config). If you interested in doing so then please remember to space the LEDs as far as you can to make the phosphors cooler. Unlike common flashlight practices, photon cross talk is a big problem here. Anything escaped from the side will heat the neighboring area. This problem is what actually limits E series from high power single LED use. I will explain this phenomenon later in the OP.

The VR16SP4 should work excellent with E17A. Paired with quadtrix E21A it’s limited to only 20 watt before the phosphors start to burn.

VERY limited quantity working prototypes available for sale. PM me if you’re interested

- Clemence

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It is interesting that 4p config starts to drop at just 1.2amps per led. The heat is still really limiting these leds. So in 4p it only gains the ability of 4 more watts but the efficiency is significantly better and results in much higher outputs regardless of the heat sharing.

clemence
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LightRider wrote:
It is interesting that 4p config starts to drop at just 1.2amps per led. The heat is still really limiting these leds. So in 4p it only gains the ability of 4 more watts but the efficiency is significantly better and results in much higher outputs regardless of the heat sharing.

Tested in 2s2p (6V) last night. Peaked at around 22 watt @3,8A. The lumen output was very close to 144AM up to 3,8A, only ~ 8% less at peak current. Not bad for such a domeless LED. I expect even higher efficiency and more total power in 4s config, would probably beat 144AM/AR. This is a strange breed of Nichia

- Clemence

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Strange and interesting indeed Smile

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