What is more important to you, AA compatibility, LiIon compatibility, or dual chemistry AA and 14500, with or without PWM?

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jon_slider
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jf_smm wrote:
Dual chemistry is much more important to me than a little flicker

May I suggest a Pineapple?:-)

an observation about the poll, flawed though it is
as of today
51 people would buy dual chemistry with NoPWM
10 people would buy dual chemistry with YesPWM

from this I conclude that the Pineapple has only captured 16% of the polled market for a dual chemistry AA/14500 light. Smile

This suggests that NoPWM is a more limiting Sales variable overall, than dual AA/LiIon compatibility

Dreaming of a Constant Current Copper Pineapple Smile

jon_slider
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kramer5150 wrote:
jon_slider wrote:
if your goal is to have more than 200 lumens, you are getting into CR123 territory, or LiIon

I don’t think this is true, with the latest emitters and brightest flux BINs there are 350L capable lights from just a single eneloop. My TH20 headlamp does ~230-250 and its not a barn burner at all, its more about cool running efficiency.

I agree with you, and disagree with my earlier comment, I was not accurate. Thanks for keeping me honest.

The Mi7 and Zebra SC5 can also do more than 200 lumens on an AA, since they don’t use a Nichia.

zak.wilson
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An Mi7 wouldn’t lose much going from an XP-L HI V3 to a 219C D320, but those only guarantee 70 CRI. If the limiting factor is the input current, it might lose nothing at all since the 219C’s forward voltage is lower. The 219C’s beam profile is nearly as throwy as the XP-L HI as well.

Higher CRI and warmer tint, however both usually require giving up some output, and the 90 CRI, 4000K 219C used in the Pineapple has a Flux bin of D240, which only has 75% of the brightness of the D320. Note that this would still be about 250 lumens.

The Mi7 could have about 420 lumens if it used an XP-L HD W2.

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WalkIntoTheLight
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ToyKeeper wrote:
WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
… with 1xAA lights now getting 500 lumens out of an Eneloop, there’s really not much need to go with 14500 cells anymore.
500 lumens is impressive, but there are 14500 lights which do 1300 lumens (BLF X5).

Wow! Okay, that is impressive from a 14500. I’m guessing no protection circuit allowed for that. The run-time must be about 5 minutes?

StorminMatt
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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
EyeballFryer wrote:
If all other features are assumed equal, I don’t get why you would pick 14500 only or AA only instead of dual chemistry AA/14500.

Single-chemistry lights usually have slightly more efficient drivers. For example, my Zebralight SC5w (AA only) is about 10% more efficient than my Zebralight SC52w (AA and 14500).

Besides, with 1xAA lights now getting 500 lumens out of an Eneloop, there’s really not much need to go with 14500 cells anymore.

I disagree. 14500s have their advantages over AA in certain situations. Camping/backpacking is one. If you are out in the middle of nowhere, it is MUCH easier to charge Li-Ion with a solar panel than it is NiMH. For one, since solar charging is often at low current, a charge at a given current (like .5A) puts energy on a Li-Ion cell about three times faster than NiMH (due to the higher voltage). This means that it takes MUCH less time to charge a battery of a given energy content (or, looked at another way, more runtime for a given amount of time on the charger). Also, because Li-Ion terminates based on voltage, there is less of an issue with termination than with NiMH with less than steady power sources (like solar panels in certain situations). Finally, 14500s are lighter than AA, which reduces pack weight (although 18650 would be even better here).

Another issue here is that, although the SC5 CAN produce 500 lumens from AA, it just doesn’t do a super good job at it. The SC5, for instance, will only produce 500 lumens from good quality cells that are fairly new and at a fairly high state of charge. It just doesn’t take much before a cell cannot support the 500 lumen turbo, and the light dims rapidly while it can be sustained. In other words, 500 lumens on a single AA is somewhat more gimmicky than truly useful. But 500 lumens on a 14500 is MUCH more sustainable.

Without lamps, there’d be no light.

WalkIntoTheLight
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StorminMatt wrote:
WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
Besides, with 1xAA lights now getting 500 lumens out of an Eneloop, there’s really not much need to go with 14500 cells anymore.

I disagree. 14500s have their advantages over AA in certain situations. Camping/backpacking is one. If you are out in the middle of nowhere, it is MUCH easier to charge Li-Ion with a solar panel than it is NiMH. For one, since solar charging is often at low current, a charge at a given current (like .5A) puts energy on a Li-Ion cell about three times faster than NiMH (due to the higher voltage). This means that it takes MUCH less time to charge a battery of a given energy content (or, looked at another way, more runtime for a given amount of time on the charger). Also, because Li-Ion terminates based on voltage, there is less of an issue with termination than with NiMH with less than steady power sources (like solar panels in certain situations). Finally, 14500s are lighter than AA, which reduces pack weight (although 18650 would be even better here).

I’ll agree with you on all that, partially. While 14500 allows you to charge them more easily than NiMH, if you’re going for energy density and weight, 18650 is a far better option than 14500. So I think the real comparison when backpacking is between AA lights and 18650 lights, not AA vs 14500.

But, yes, if your only choice is between carrying a bunch of 14500 cells or carrying a bunch of AA cells, then you should probably choose the lighter option and go with 14500.

For regular everyday use, I still think there’s no advantage for 14500 over quality AA cells (like Eneloops).

Quote:
Another issue here is that, although the SC5 CAN produce 500 lumens from AA, it just doesn’t do a super good job at it. The SC5, for instance, will only produce 500 lumens from good quality cells that are fairly new and at a fairly high state of charge. It just doesn’t take much before a cell cannot support the 500 lumen turbo, and the light dims rapidly while it can be sustained. In other words, 500 lumens on a single AA is somewhat more gimmicky than truly useful. But 500 lumens on a 14500 is MUCH more sustainable.

I don’t agree. If you look at Selfbuilt’s output graphs on the SC5, you’ll notice that it has very flat regulation until it drops down to medium after about 45 minutes. There is the 3-minute step-down in output that is programmed into the light, but that is the case regardless of battery chemistry. It’s designed to stop the light from over-heating. The SC52 on a 14500 cell (again 500 lumens), steps down after 1 minute.

I haven’t noticed any issues with the SC5 losing output when I use Eneloops many years old. It seems to be fine, until the cell is almost drained.

A couple of years ago, it used to be the case that max output couldn’t be maintained except on fresh cells. For example, my SC52’s on an Eneloop only give their 280 lumens max output for a few minutes, before it slowly drops off to about 200 lumens for most of the run-time. For that light, 14500 clearly has a benefit, as it maintains a solid 280 lumens for the entire run-time after the 1-minute step-down.

I think Zebralight’s driver for the SC5 solved that problem. I can get a little over 20 minutes of 500 lumen output (by turning it up again after the 3-minute step-down), on a regular 1900mAh Eneloop. And, unlike with lithium-ion, I never have to worry about the light shutting off due to low voltage protection. On a drained Eneloop, it will continue to run on low levels for hours, without damaging the battery.

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