XP-L2 V5 Output & Death test by Texas_Ace Over 2200 lumens! Still worked after 15 Amps!

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djozz
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Btw, TA, I stole your address from Clemence’s picture (a bit un-ethical, I know Innocent ) and have sent you a small flashlight with very constant measured output (after 10 seconds basically constant, within 1%), so you can compare your calibration to my ‘djozz-lumen’. Not because the ‘djozz-lumen’ is neccessarily any better than any other people’s standard (I never had it officially measured, it is just my own baseline that I keep as constant as possible over time), and not that I wish you to use it (your standard may well be closer to reality than mine), but just to get an idea on how your emitter tests compare to mine in the past.
I hope it arrives at some point.

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Great idea.

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djozz wrote:
Btw, TA, I stole your address from Clemence’s picture (a bit un-ethical, I know Innocent ) and have sent you a small flashlight with very constant measured output (after 10 seconds basically constant, within 1%), so you can compare your calibration to my ‘djozz-lumen’. Not because the ‘djozz-lumen’ is neccessarily any better than any other people’s standard (I never had it officially measured, it is just my own baseline that I keep as constant as possible over time), and not that I wish you to use it (your standard may well be closer to reality than mine), but just to get an idea on how your emitter tests compare to mine in the past. I hope it arrives at some point.

Thats a fantastic idea!

I was hoping at some point we could test the same emitter (perhaps the 219c’s we are getting from the same reel) but this would be even better. At the very least I could apply a multiplier to the emitter tests so that my test would be comparable to your back log of tests.

I see some PM’s I am guessing you are one of them, I will read them in a min.
Texas_Ace
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djozz wrote:
My theory: It is not the flipping of the die that does this, I think, but the type of phosfor, Cree used to have very fine-grained phosfor layers and was not very good in pleasant tints and better CRI, now their tints are improving and that coincides with rougher, more loose phosfor layers, that also are better in photon extraction at high angles (these angles in the old type of phosfor layer emitted much less light, photons were at the exit reflected back into the die, which was enhanced by dedoming the led) unfortunately that light at high angles has a higher proportion of longer wavelength photons and it creates the huge ugly yellow-ish corona around the hotspot (which is not spill light but light coming from the deepest part of the reflector).

The phosphor layer could be the cause as well, it is really hard to say since the phosphor change happened at the same time as the die flip.

Although it appears everyone is going to this new style, the nichia 319 looks interesting because it might have the high output without the tint shift.

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I really have some hopes for the 319A, not that it will beat the XP-L(2) in output but that it will produce very pretty beams, also under Carclo optics.

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I’m considering painting the deep part of the reflector matte white sometimes, so that it will mix with the spill.
Or just use a matte white spacer gasket with a high collar.
Not sure yet..

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Anyone tried slicing the dome on a G3? Does it improve things at all?

Paining the lower part of the reflector is an interesting idea. I have a ton of spare S2+ Reflectors from swapping in TIR’s lenses, I might try that if I can come up with a paint to use and a way to apply it.

djozz
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Texas_Ace wrote:

I was hoping at some point we could test the same emitter (perhaps the 219c’s we are getting from the same reel) but this would be even better. At the very least I could apply a multiplier to the emitter tests so that my test would be comparable to your back log of tests

The light has a 4000K 80CRI (Samsung LH351B) led which strictly spoken just gives a correct comparison for that that specific spectrum (can be translated as: colour temp/CRI) and does not see possible differences in wavelength sensitivity for our set-ups (which is dependent on the quality of the reflecting inner surface of the measuring device and on how correct the wavelength sensitivity of the luxmeter follows the agreed Vlambda curve). In other words, a cool white led and a very warm white led may have a somewhat different multiplier between us than the 4000K 80CRI led that we calibrate at.
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Texas_Ace wrote:
Anyone tried slicing the dome on a G3? Does it improve things at all?

Paining the lower part of the reflector is an interesting idea. I have a ton of spare S2+ Reflectors from swapping in TIR’s lenses, I might try that if I can come up with a paint to use and a way to apply it.


If you use flat white paint, that light is not lost but will be fairly evenly distributed in the spill.
Texas_Ace
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djozz wrote:
The light has a 4000K 80CRI (Samsung LH351B) led which strictly spoken just gives a correct comparison for that that specific spectrum (can be translated as: colour temp/CRI) and does not see possible differences in wavelength sensitivity for our set-ups (which is dependent on the quality of the reflecting inner surface of the measuring device and on how correct the wavelength sensitivity of the luxmeter follows the agreed Vlambda curve). In other words, a cool white led and a very warm white led may have a somewhat different multiplier between us than the 4000K 80CRI led that we calibrate at.

Yeah, my idea with the 219c’s was we would 100% know they were the same bin/tint for both of us and thus be the most accurate comparison.

This light is an even better idea though. I am curious to see what the results are.

Texas_Ace
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djozz wrote:
If you use flat white paint, that light is not lost but will be fairly evenly distributed in the spill.

Yeah, it should also scatter it into the main beam and could improve the main bean tint as well if it is a very matt finish. The issue is how to get a pure white, flat matte, paint that can be easily applied with precision.

Maybe a markout market for “erasing pen ink”? Any good ideas?

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Is Tipp-Ex something that is known over where you are?

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djozz wrote:
Is Tipp-Ex something that is known over where you are?

I believe it’s called “white out”
It’s very good for this purpose because little light penetrates it, but is reflected.
Iḿ only worried about how good it will stick to reflector surface and without cracking (crackling?) over time
Maybe ‘monodek’ latex wall paint is better
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Yes, white-out was what I was talking about, the brand name escaped me.

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Or it just hit me, what if I made an extra tall centering ring that covered the base of the dome, I could even make it too tall and sand it down as needed. Could this work basically the same? It would reduce total output more then painting the reflector obviously but would be a heck of a lot easier.

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That’s what i meant with ‘high collar spacer gasket’.
But how to get the nylon or plastic not translucent and matte / flat?
Or is that ‘splitting hairs’?

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Jerommel wrote:
That’s what i meant with ‘high collar spacer gasket’. But how to get the nylon or plastic not translucent and matte / flat? Or is that ‘splitting hairs’?

I print up my own spacers all the time, I have a choice of colors but I think white will work fine. I just have to make one extra tall.

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Ok, I just updated the OP with these updated charts, everyone think these are good?

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Looks good!

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Here is a thread on the PVC sphere for those interested, like I said it is really not all that different then a normal PVC setup, but the little things can make all the difference.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/51640

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Who has bought all the XP-L2 5000K from Kaidomain? Crying
I wanted to buy some too!

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Wieselflinkpro wrote:
Who has bought all the XP-L2 5000K from Kaidomain? Crying I wanted to buy some too!

Texas_Ace perhaps? Big Smile

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lol, wasn’t me, I was not even aware they had any in stock. Although I was not real impressed with the 5000k tint to be honest, it seemed a lot cooler then that so I want to go for 4000k when I order them. I have not been able to find any for sale other then mouser and digikey though and I don’t plan on making an order from them for a little bit.

I have my eyes on the 4000k 80cri 3 step binned versions I see floating around. They are V3 instead of V5 but usually the better CRI is well worth the drop in output for me.

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Dang! Just noticed that last night. V6 bin no less.... If it's real - no pic of the CREE labeling for those. Hhmm....

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Got in a dozen 4000K's (V5 E5) from Arrow. Installed one in a modded ThorFire JM07, OP reflector, 40 mm head diam. It's got a FET+1, SIR800DP, 20 AWG LED wires, UCLp lens, and updated the firmware to latest Narsil v1.2. It's pretty nice - yes, has a yellowish halo around the hot spot, but the hotspot and spill area look pretty nice. Just tried it outdoors a bit, and the yellowish area really isn't much of an issue, in fact not really bad.

It pulled 7.8A on a LK 26650 @4.17V, 1,910 lumens on turn-on, 1,820 @30 secs. The output is about the same as the U4 1C it replaced when it was new, lower just before the mod on the same cell, but of course the tint is way better.

The JM07 is like a UltraFire F-13 as it should have been - tailswitch, side switch, real SS bezel, uni-body, good tailstander, nice anodizing. Exactly the same as the Shadow here: http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/goods.php?id=1690, but got the Amazon deal on it - real cheap, think about $12.

Interesting - got an email from Arrow, say'n they'll send me a free Arrow hoodie - filled out the form, looks good, we'll see.

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Great thread! This could be amazing in a 2-cell host like the ZY-T08 with an LD-2/3 that can crank out stable high current.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

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Tom E wrote:

Got in a dozen 4000K’s (V5 E5) from Arrow. Installed one in a modded ThorFire JM07, OP reflector, 40 mm head diam. It’s got a FET+1, SIR800DP, 20 AWG LED wires, UCLp lens, and updated the firmware to latest Narsil v1.2. It’s pretty nice – yes, has a yellowish halo around the hot spot, but the hotspot and spill area look pretty nice. Just tried it outdoors a bit, and the yellowish area really isn’t much of an issue, in fact not really bad.


It pulled 7.8A on a LK 26650 @4.17V, 1,910 lumens on turn-on, 1,820 @30 secs. The output is about the same as the U4 1C it replaced when it was new, lower just before the mod on the same cell, but of course the tint is way better.


The JM07 is like a UltraFire F-13 as it should have been – tailswitch, side switch, real SS bezel, uni-body, good tailstander, nice anodizing. Exactly the same as the Shadow here: http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/goods.php?id=1690, but got the Amazon deal on it – real cheap, think about $12.


Interesting – got an email from Arrow, say’n they’ll send me a free Arrow hoodie – filled out the form, looks good, we’ll see.

Very nice results!

The tint shift is something that doesn’t really bother me as well, unless inside white wall hunting. Outside it is a non-issue for most things.

Also good to see your numbers lining up with mine, minus the ~10% reflector/glass losses it is pretty darn close.

I wish there was a true standard we could all use to calibrate our spheres to to make the numbers truly comparable. I fully admit that mine is simply the best guess I could come up with based on the lights I had access to. I am really curious what the light from Djozz compares on my sphere.

Texas_Ace
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Rufusbduck wrote:
Great thread! This could be amazing in a 2-cell host like the ZY-T08 with an LD-2/3 that can crank out stable high current.

It is possible it could regulate the entire range but it would be very close due to the low Vf pushing the heat dissipation right to the limit.

Although since we do not have a viable buck or boost driver it is the best option.

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Thanx! In the JM07, the LED centering piece is the stock XM size, but the XPL2 is sitting nice in the middle. Should file down the top - might pick up a few lumens. It usually works, not always. Could also try filing down the backside to get it more into the reflector. The reflector is nice for wiring - no flat bottom, like an EE X6.

I do have qty 4 of the XPL2 V6 3B's on order from KD since Dec 24th. They show stock but my order still hasn't shipped, so suspect they really don't have them on hand. They are displaying the V6 3B CREE label now.

In output, figure the V5's are about equal to XM-L2 U2's, and the V6's are equal to U3's, while W2's are same as U4's, but of course you get a whole lot more amps out of the XPL2's and they won't fry, plus they seem to run cooler and lower overall watts because of the lower Vf.

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I just ordered a few different XP-L2’s from arrow, gonna give them a go to see how they look and see which version looks the best.

I am also going to try a taller centering ring that might block/diffuse the tint shift around the edges, no idea if it will work but even if it looses a few lumens if it can reduce or eliminate the tint shift it would be worth it.

It is a good thing these latest gen LED’s can handle more power, otherwise FET drivers would not longer be an option.

This does leave us in an interesting place for future options though as the Vf will keep dropping as time goes on and sooner or later the LED will not be able to handle the current it can draw. The 219C already is past that point but luckily it survives the abuse.

It does mean that we should be able to maintain regulation much longer though.

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