Tesla Panasonic 2170 battery discussion thread

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Tacoboy
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Tesla Panasonic 2170 battery discussion thread

Thought it would be nice to get a thread going about the new Tesla Panasonic 2170 battery.
Wonder if the whole supply will be used in Tesla cars or will some become available on the open market?
Will a flashlight ever be designed to work with the 2170?

MILSPEC
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-04/tesla-flips-the-switc...
Just read this yesterday, very interested in discussing the new cell, potential ways of sourcing them in the long run, powerwall battery pulls and more!

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I think “3xAAA or 18650” lights will fit a 20700 or 21700.

Looking for:

5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

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Jerommel wrote:
I think “3xAAA or 18650” lights will fit a 20700 or 21700.

Yeah, that’s what I’ve been thinking too. And we all know there are “plenty” of those!

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Speed4goal
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Any light that can fit a 26700 or (protected 26650) can already run these cells with and maybe without a home made cardboard spacer

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Jerommel wrote:
I think “3xAAA or 18650” lights will fit a 20700 or 21700.

Jep, you are right. For 3 batteries, you need something like: D = 2.155 * d. (I skipped the bit with the square roots).
Where D is the inner diameter of the tube, and d is the diameter of the batteries you want to put in (AAA = 10.5mm).

Edit: Oops, forgot to mention the result: 22.62mm (to BLF-members in the UK I would say: One Hundred And Eighty Evil )

I always think long and hard before I say something really stupid.

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FWIW… Craig has them (Sanyo version) in stock…
http://www.illumn.com/20700-sanyo-ncr20700b-high-discharge-flat-top.html

Although I am not sure where they can be used. I wonder if the old MAG 2C incan will fit a pair of these? Probably not since they are longer then the 65mm length.

Jerommel
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Henk4U2 wrote:
Jerommel wrote:
I think “3xAAA or 18650” lights will fit a 20700 or 21700.

Jep, you are right. For 3 batteries, you need something like: D = 2.155 * d. (I skipped the bit with the square roots).
Where D is the inner diameter of the tube, and d is the diameter of the batteries you want to put in (AAA = 10.5mm).

Edit: Oops, forgot to mention the result: 22.62mm (to BLF-members in the UK I would say: One Hundred And Eighty Evil )


I was looking for 22500 for 3x AAA lights, but i gave up the search.
These 20700 newcomers will be better quality anyway, but will only fit if the 3x AAA carrier is a tall one with a top button.
Otherwise you have a 20mm sized problem…

Looking for:

5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

StandardBattery
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This short video clip they posted, a small part of the factory/manufacturing-process, looks pretty cool.
https://www.facebook.com/tesla/videos/10154876472132801/

I’ve been able to use the Sanyo 20700 batteries in several 26650 lights and they fit in all my recent chargers. So one can play with them a bit without resorting to custom stuff right away.

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I wonder if Tesla is going to pursue US government / military contracts ?

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I think that Tesla will go for 21700

Test by HKJ

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/51822

Orbtronic, small batch sold out

http://www.orbtronic.com/20700-panasonic-sanyo-ncr20700b-battery-recharg...

DIY folks are buying 20700 for DIY battery packs.

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SpaceCowboy wrote:
I think that Tesla will go for 21700

Test by HKJ

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/51822

Orbtronic, small batch sold out

http://www.orbtronic.com/20700-panasonic-sanyo-ncr20700b-battery-recharg...

DIY folks are buying 20700 for DIY battery packs.


This thread is about the 21700, or 21-70 as Tesla has decided to designate it. Yes Tesla has already said they are moving to 21-70, they are already making them in their Gigafactory.

I think the 20700 by Sanyo is essentially being cleared out. It’s a guess but it appears the industry will standardize on 21700; Tesla, LG, Samsung are all there. Panasonic is a strategic partner with Tesla and provided all the machines to make their batteries. I think their testing is over, 21700 is the future for eBikes, Electric Cars, and more EV products. Eventually other industrial uses will probably appear. Given this I can see Sanyo and Panasonic having 21700 cells (even if they are just reclassified 20700) cells Smile ) There is no doubt that the 21700 (Tesla 21-70) cells are a new standard cell in the EV Industry, and they are bound to expand into other industries.

Sanyo could be just trying to get out as many samples as possible to potential customers and hence they are showing up at smaller retailers. It also helps their name get recognition, because a few places can get you a Samsung SDI 21700 or LG 21700 unless you are a pretty big player then you can get smaller quantities as engineering samples. Although I hope some smaller wholesalers will have access to 21700 from more manufacturers, I’m very happy we can get our hands on the Sanyo 20700 for now. Still in any case there are obviously excess capacity which I believe is because they already have 21700 (or upgraded 20700) cells they are selling to the big boys.

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I would just follow Panasonic R&D for info about size.
Panasonic + Tesla = Gigafactory

Panasonic NCR20700C is under development.

We will see in very near future about size.
Don’t forget that power tools manufacturers are big customers too.

Samsung INR21700/30T

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This is very very cool. 26650 I have always found too big/bulky, even the smallest light designs. 18650 is a GREAT carry size IMHO… but its nice having another option. More choices can never be a bad thing.

I am curious to see how quality levels will vary on these new 21700 cells, since they come from the same factory (at least initially). Unlike ANY other battery… with GREATLY varying quality levels across each size from a half dozen reputable manufacturers and perhaps dozens more less reputable. Being an automotive standard I would assume 21700 would have to comply to very strict minimum standards for capacity and performance. IE… very minimal chance of getting a “dud” cell.

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kramer5150 wrote:
…I am curious to see how quality levels will vary on these new 21700 cells, since they come from the same factory (at least initially).

Right now, there are 3 manufacturers of 21700 cells, that I know of: Tesla, Samsung, BMZ

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I would be very interested in hearing from our coveted flashlight brands and OEMs who are participating on BLF:

- What is your opinion on the new form factor?
- Do you believe the 21700 cell would be a big enough factor for you to design/engineer and market a new generation of flashlights? Can a battery alone be a factor to change form factors in your processes? Or will the new cell potentially just co-exist next to all other sizes and flashlights?

I am assuming that previous/existing flashlights are engineered around batteries, so if 21700 will become commonplace as the next standard, change will be inevitable?

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Pretty sure most are waiting to see just how popular the 21700 will become, same as we the buyers are doing at this point.

You can rest assured that there will be lights released before long to support this size, the first ones to do so will sell quite a few if they are quality as well.

At this point I would not expect much more then the selection you get of 26650 lights.

That said if the 21700 does what I think it will and becomes the new standard I am 100% in favor of it. I think it will be far better for all but the subcompact lights, which can always use a 18350 or 18650.

For one thing it will give a more balanced look to lights like the C8 and the grip size will feel nicer in the hand. Not to mention the extra power.

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If it does become the new standard, it would be nice if the size was actually standardized itself also. With strict range of minimum & maximum measurements governing it.

I know that is a pipe dream, because manufacture compliance would be optional…. but might as well dream. Wink

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texas shooter
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I went with 26650 formats on a few lights. I wanted single cell lights with a bit more than the 18650 could do. 20700/21700 will replace it nicely. I’ll get output and duration far better than 18650. The Panasonic-Sanyo NCR20700A 3100 mah, 30amp perfect for turbo nuke modes. NCR20700B 4250 mah, 15amp for the rest of us.

REALLY WANT A P60 HOST IN 20700/21700.

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teacher wrote:
If it does become the new standard, it would be nice if the size was actually standardized itself also. With strict range of minimum & maximum measurements governing it.

I know that is a pipe dream, because manufacture compliance would be optional…. but might as well dream. Wink

That’s what makes this case interesting. The automotive industry supply chain is FIRMLY rooted in standardization… EVERYTHING either has a standard or has standards being developed / refined. There are standards for standards even, which sounds crazy but that’s what it is. If your part does not meet spec its scrap and can not ship. So I would be surprised if the 20700 cell length specs were as lose as 18650 and 26650. Especially with Tesla so deeply rooted in 20700 development. We will see though.

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kramer5150 wrote:

That’s what makes this case interesting. The automotive industry supply chain is FIRMLY rooted in standardization… EVERYTHING either has a standard or has standards being developed / refined. There are standards for standards even, which sounds crazy but that’s what it is. If your part does not meet spec its scrap and can not ship. So I would be surprised if the 20700 cell length specs were as lose as 18650 and 26650. Especially with Tesla so deeply rooted in 20700 development. We will see though.
Very good points ‘kramer5150’, I had not even thought of that.
And your exactly right, every certifying agency right down to the ASTM will have standards for a ‘21700’ to adhere to in order to be classified a ‘21700’. Wink
It probably will get interesting as we see how it impacts our chose addiction… err, hobby. Wink
————————————————————————————-
Edit to fix typo…. 20700 changed to 21700

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Another nice thing about the automotive world driving these cells is that they have needs very similar to ours, the need for both high drain AND high capacity batteries and/or with a good balance of both. Thus it should press forward the higher drain version of cells.

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I don’t see the 21700 replacing smaller cells, but if it’s performance comes close to or exceeds the 26650, then that may signal the closing of that chapter in LiIon cells. Bigger is only useful if it’s also better Wink

What I’m most curious about is whether the first crop of 21700 lights will be expanded body 18650’s, shrunken body 26650’s, or an entirely new size of light with a balanced design to match. Interesting times are ahead however it happens Cool

Phil

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You need to buy another charger with these new 21700cells
BT-C3100 software seem don’t support this new format

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Alen wrote:
You need to buy another charger with these new 21700cells BT-C3100 software seem don’t support this new format

Why would you need a new charger?, as long as it fits, if the voltage is supported by the charger, and the needed charging algorithm is not too different, it should work.

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ggf31416 wrote:
Alen wrote:
You need to buy another charger with these new 21700cells BT-C3100 software seem don’t support this new format

Why would you need a new charger?, as long as it fits, if the voltage is supported by the charger, and the needed charging algorithm is not too different, it should work.

Yep, all lithium 3.7V cells use the same 4.2V charge cutout and that is all that matters for charging (well and they you don’t try to charge too quick but few chargers could do that anyways).

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Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat , French economist(1801-1850)

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My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

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Alen wrote:
You need to buy another charger with these new 21700cells BT-C3100 software seem don’t support this new format

That’s like saying since the opus chargers 18650 it can’t charge 14500 or 26650. All current 4.2 chargers will charge them if they fit which they should in most chargers. Especially the outer slots of every 4 bay charger. This cell wasn’t out when opus printed their owners manual but it will charge them no problem just like xstar, liito Kala, nitecore, efest and any charger that can slide to 70mm and charger a 26650 will take them

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Well…. here are some Sanyo NCR20700A & Sanyo NCR20700B batteries, right here in the USA; ready to be sold. Wink

EDIT: Ooops, this was nothing new. I had a brain fart and read this as “21700” my bad, Facepalm

http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1066014#comment-1066014

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I’ve already mentioned the NCR20700B from Sanyo is fitting all my recent charges OPUS 3100, XTAR VP2, SV2, and the Lii 500. They can also fit in a few of my 26650 lights so one can do some basic playing with these until we get a light made for them. I didn’t check them all, but I don’t see any issue, they also fit some of the recent XTAR single slot chargers. A couple old ones they won’t fit in, but those have issues with long protected 18650 cells and that is why they have been retired.

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10$ for a 20700 …well…some time will pass till those became popular i guess
The ball is in the Samsung /LG field now i presume, lets see if they`ll follow or continue developing 18650

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texas shooter wrote:
I went with 26650 formats on a few lights. I wanted single cell lights with a bit more than the 18650 could do. 20700/21700 will replace it nicely. I’ll get output and duration far better than 18650. The Panasonic-Sanyo NCR20700A 3100 mah, 30amp perfect for turbo nuke modes. NCR20700B 4250 mah, 15amp for the rest of us.

REALLY WANT A P60 HOST IN 20700/21700.

P60 host is probably possible solution.
You can contact these guys http://www.oveready.com

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