[GB ended,discussion only] CRI > 80+ NICHIA 2000K-6500K [E21A/219B/219C/319A/144A/757GT-F1(Optisolis)]

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Texas_Ace
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illuminos wrote:
Good to know the 219c can handle the higher currents without killing it. I believe I read somewhere that the FET used on these drivers top out around 10A, but that could have been in a specific build with other factors. I’ll go see if I can dig up the source.

I think I’ll give this build a go and program with a weaker cell. It will only be on the FET for a short period of time while programming.

That 10A limit would be the max the FET can handle without melting, not the max it can deliver. Although on a single 219C the max would most likely be less then 10A as it will have more resistance then the normal FET’s we use around here.

illuminos
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Ah okay, thanks for the details. Does that mean these drivers shouldn’t be used on quads/triples that can pull a lot more than 10A?

This is what I have in a few of my builds but I rarely use the full turbo mode for extended periods.

Texas_Ace
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illuminos wrote:
Ah okay, thanks for the details. Does that mean these drivers shouldn’t be used on quads/triples that can pull a lot more than 10A?

This is what I have in a few of my builds but I rarely use the full turbo mode for extended periods.

That would be a question for the guy selling it (forgot who it was). He will know what the specs on the parts are.

You can be sure that they will pull more then 10A though with a triple or quad 219C.

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Currently, they are being sold by MTN. I’ve asked the question in the H17F thread.

On a more on topic note, I finished my s41 quad build with 2× 5000k and 2× 4000k and it does give a more balanced tint. Personally, the 5000k was a bit too cool for me and the 4000k a bit too warm.

This may be a bit subjective since I’m eyeballing it, but it appears there is a bit of green when mixing the 2 different LEDs. I’ll have to use it more, and also try it without the lens to see if anything changes.

Jerommel
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Strange, isn’t it?

It’s as if it’s like cool – cool – neutral – neutral – warm – warm, with only slight differences among the 2 of each main colour temperature.

2Q19

clemence
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Jerommel wrote:
Strange, isn’t it?

It’s as if it’s like cool – cool – neutral – neutral – warm – warm, with only slight differences among the 2 of each main colour temperature.

It is what it is. I’m about to post the complete tint shots (minus the 219B 9080) very soon. Still repairing the boost driver I kept for a long time.

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Jerommel wrote:
Strange, isn’t it?

It’s as if it’s like cool – cool – neutral – neutral – warm – warm, with only slight differences among the 2 of each main colour temperature.

To me it looks more like
cool – neutral – warm – warm – warm – warm

perception is individual

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Jerommel wrote:
Strange, isn’t it?

It’s as if it’s like cool – cool – neutral – neutral – warm – warm, with only slight differences among the 2 of each main colour temperature.

BTW, the sm303 and sm273 gets almost the same as the current increase. Also notice the red really pronounced in very low current. This also validate Maukka’s statement somewhere in BLF.

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My power supply reached it’s limit at 51,02 watts (52,13 V & 0,98 A)

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Got my 219C 353’s in today… I think 3 of them and 1 219C 403 will go into a quad X5. Maybe it will be 2 and 2 not sure yet. Will be driven by a CC LD3 at 12 amps! Going to be a fun Hi CRI build that is for sure.

EDC rotation:
FW1A, LH351D 4000k (second favorite)
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (favorite light!)
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k
S2+, XM-L2 T6 4C

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Hmmm… The 503 and 573 have higher Vf than 403, 353, 303 and 273, don’t they?
So inparallel the ones with lower Vf will draw the most Amperes.

2Q19

mattlward
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Yes, lower Vf=more amps. I have 1 triple build with 219C’s and it can get into crazy amps if you use a good cell and do bypasses. My hope is to get good performance and maintain control with any battery by using the LD3.

EDC rotation:
FW1A, LH351D 4000k (second favorite)
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (favorite light!)
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k
S2+, XM-L2 T6 4C

Jerommel
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Sorry, i misread your comment, but now i see you want to combine 353 with 403.
(i somehow read / thought you meant 503 Facepalm )

2Q19

clemence
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I didn’t have too much play time to test each types separately, hence the non uniform brightness.

Ran them all in series. Different Vf is always a problem especially in ultra low current.

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Jerommel wrote:
Sorry, i misread your comment, but now i see you want to combine 353 with 403. (i somehow read / thought you meant 503 Facepalm )

No problem… 5000k is a little to cool for my liking. I really like between 4500k and about 3750k. Thus the mix of the 2 leds.

EDC rotation:
FW1A, LH351D 4000k (second favorite)
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (favorite light!)
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k
S2+, XM-L2 T6 4C

Texas_Ace
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mattlward wrote:
Yes, lower Vf=more amps. I have 1 triple build with 219C’s and it can get into crazy amps if you use a good cell and do bypasses. My hope is to get good performance and maintain control with any battery by using the LD3.

I highly doubt that the LD-3 will handle a quad build.

At 12A it will have to dissipate roughly 6W+. It is only rated for 3W with thermal cubes IIRC. Same issue I have ran into with the Texas commander.

Although you should be able to get away with a normal FET driver in a quad. I have an S41 quad 219C 4000k and it works fine. It pulls around 21-22A in turbo but that is ok as it is around 5A per LED which is about perfect.

Although it gets VERY hot. If you use long thin wires you could drop that down a bit. 24AWG is about the thinnest I would go.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
but that is ok as it is around 5A per LED which is about perfect.

Isn’t that a bit too high for 219C?

Texas_Ace
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RollerBoySE wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
but that is ok as it is around 5A per LED which is about perfect.

Isn’t that a bit too high for 219C?

Nope, they make peak lumens at around 6A, so 5-6A is perfect. I tested them to 12A and they lived just fine, they just put out the same lumens at 12A as they do at 2.5A except with a ton more heat.

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Just curious, are there any multi output (3-4 outlet) drivers small enough for flashlight applications? That would be a good option.
How about RGBW drivers? We can use 1/2/3/4 output or even combine them all.
There are some great branded multi colour flashlights, right?

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Texas_Ace wrote:
RollerBoySE wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
but that is ok as it is around 5A per LED which is about perfect.

Isn’t that a bit too high for 219C?

Nope, they make peak lumens at around 6A, so 5-6A is perfect. I tested them to 12A and they lived just fine, they just put out the same lumens at 12A as they do at 2.5A except with a ton more heat.

Interesting.
So why does Nichia state the max current at 1.8A?
https://www.nichia.co.jp/specification/products/led/NVSW219C-E.pdf

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For the same reason the Cree says that an XP-L2 max is 3A but we run them at 8A+. They rate them first off for non-DTP mcpcb which makes a massive difference. Then they also need a safety factor built in.

Heck I tested the XP-L2 to 15A and it still worked! These latest gen LED’s without bond wires are super tough when mounted on a DTP star and have a good heat path.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
For the same reason the Cree says that an XP-L2 max is 3A but we run them at 8A+. They rate them first off for non-DTP mcpcb which makes a massive difference. Then they also need a safety factor built in.

Heck I tested the XP-L2 to 15A and it still worked! These latest gen LED’s without bond wires are super tough when mounted on a DTP star and have a good heat path.

What driver are you using in your S41?

Jerommel
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RollerBoySE wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
but that is ok as it is around 5A per LED which is about perfect.

Isn’t that a bit too high for 219C?

I think it is.
Efficiency suffers considerably.
Up to some 2 Amperes they’re 100 Lumen per Watt though (iirc)

2Q19

Texas_Ace
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RollerBoySE wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
For the same reason the Cree says that an XP-L2 max is 3A but we run them at 8A+. They rate them first off for non-DTP mcpcb which makes a massive difference. Then they also need a safety factor built in.

Heck I tested the XP-L2 to 15A and it still worked! These latest gen LED’s without bond wires are super tough when mounted on a DTP star and have a good heat path.

What driver are you using in your S41?

Using a TA driver in almost all of my lights.

Texas_Ace
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Jerommel wrote:
RollerBoySE wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
but that is ok as it is around 5A per LED which is about perfect.

Isn’t that a bit too high for 219C?

I think it is.
Efficiency suffers considerably.
Up to some 2 Amperes they’re 100 Lumen per Watt though (iirc)

It is perfectly fine, it produces more heat naturally but that is the only drawback.

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Jerommel wrote:
RollerBoySE wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
but that is ok as it is around 5A per LED which is about perfect.

Isn’t that a bit too high for 219C?

I think it is.
Efficiency suffers considerably.
Up to some 2 Amperes they’re 100 Lumen per Watt though (iirc)

Sheer output vs efficiency, it is a matter of perspective. Generally over here at BLF the perspective is: sheer output Evil
Jerommel
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Texas_Ace wrote:
Jerommel wrote:
RollerBoySE wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
but that is ok as it is around 5A per LED which is about perfect.

Isn’t that a bit too high for 219C?

I think it is.
Efficiency suffers considerably.
Up to some 2 Amperes they’re 100 Lumen per Watt though (iirc)

It is perfectly fine, it produces more heat naturally but that is the only drawback.

Yes, they can handle it.
It’s a matter of opinion and preferences etcetera.
I just don’t like the idea of a modern LED doing less than 100 Lumen per Watt.

2Q19

clemence
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By moving to any higher CRI LEDs,we already sacrifice efficiency. There are always compromises

Jerommel
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djozz wrote:
Jerommel wrote:
RollerBoySE wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
but that is ok as it is around 5A per LED which is about perfect.

Isn’t that a bit too high for 219C?

I think it is.
Efficiency suffers considerably.
Up to some 2 Amperes they’re 100 Lumen per Watt though (iirc)

Sheer output vs efficiency, it is a matter of perspective. Generally over here at BLF the perspective is: sheer output Evil
5 Amperes is excessive i.m.o.
3 Amperes is still okay for a 219C, maybe 3.5 Amperes.
But with a linear driver you run into problems when the battery can not provide the Vf at such currents.
The party is over pretty soon, even with modern low Vf LEDs.
DD FET drivers and how they’re usually implemented makes matters even worse.
Folks are limiting the current by means of thin wires and what not…
Sure, that’s what you would want when the battery is fully charged, but that’s only a short while..

2Q19

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The battery has to drop REALLY low in order to get down to your “ideal” 3A, so that is not an issue.

Plus with the TA drivers you get a regulated 2.5A output + the FET for max power. Best of both worlds.

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