Hi, my first question in here and english is not my native language, so pls bear with me…
Thing is, I think I need, or just want, a big light. I am quite new to quality flashlights, in fact I have used only headlights until recently. Since I realized I needed a handheld light I bought a Convoy C8, XM-L2 U2-1A.
To light the path, finding things in the backpack, field dressing etc. I use an Armytek Wizzard, I also use a Fenix HP30 hl a lot, wich has a little throw but with a large hotspot and good spill. I use the Convoy C8 for occasions where I need throw, watching wildlife at 200+ yards, picking a route or searching for a dog that has wandered of the path. I also think it will be usefull on the water, sea and inland, to look for objects or find the shoreline. The C8 is perfect to me, with a nice sized hotspot, good throw and a spill that is very usefull without blinding me. But I simply want more of the same, a little brighter and perhaps 50% longer “reach” if that makes any sense, 50% morte throw I guess, than the convoy C8.
So I look hard at the Convoy L2 thinking this may be it. But then I wonder if this flashlight will be more “laserlike”, have a smaller hotspot and less/less bright spill. I do want to put light out to a spot way in front of me, not light a corridor of daylight from me and out to 300 yards, but still I want that spot to be rather wide, perhaps about the same size as my binoculars field of view, ca. 11-12 yards wide at 100 yards.
If my explanation of what I want is understandable, is there someone who can tell me if I can get this with the Convoy L2 or is there another flashlight I should be looking for? And what about the variants of the L2, should I choose XM-L2 like in the C8 og XP-L HI? Or buy a host and install something else? If there is another emitter/driver combination that would better for me then having to build it myself is not a problem (I think )but rather a nice challenge.
The L2 is like carrying a brick in comparison to the C8, as it’s meant for a pair of 26650s, vs a single 18650. But it’s a lightsabre, higher kcd than even an L6 without daylighting everything around you.
The C8 with an XP-L HI is a thing of beauty, lots of raw lumenage, and a fairly concentrated hotspot.
My favorite toy is an unstressed XP-E2 (only 1A), which is downright anæmic as far as lumens, but throws a nice tight beam that holds together way far out. 1-mode, wide-open only, and you can leave it on until the battery dies without having to worry about stepping down to a lower intensity.
Up close, the XP-L HI easily outshines it, but I’m not sure if the way tighter hotspot of the XP-E2 would outthrow it. Seems like it, though. The XP-L HI puts out lots more light, but it’s also spread out lots more. The XP-E2 is more “laserlike”.
The best compromise would probably be a dedomed XP-G(2 or 3), that’s small enough to hold together at a distance, yet you can put at least twice the current through it as through an XP-E2 (but not as much as through an XP-L or XP-L HI).
I admit I never used an XP-G of any flavor in my DIY lights, but probably have some in my Jetbeams or Foursevens or whatnot.
If you want a bit more throw (~50% more distance), that means the beam intensity needs to be 2.25x more. I assume your XML2 C8 has a 8x7135 driver, which means it has roughly 40-45Kcd of beam intensity. I would recommend getting as much throw as possible while still being a convenient size and acceptably large beam size.
Here are some options:
C8 with XPL HI and FET driver: 115Kcd
-the beam will be about 2/3 of the diameter of your current beam.
C8 with dedomed XPL V6 1A and FET driver: 150Kcd
-same beam size as C8 with XPL HI
,however, lots of XPL V6 LEDs do not dedome easily or well so this option might be difficult
C8 with dedomed XPG2 and FET driver: 165Kcd
-beam size will be about 1/2 of the diameter of your current beam
,and XPG2 S4 2B dedome easily
L2 with XPL HI and FET driver: 220Kcd
-beam will be about 1/2 of the diameter of your current beam
Lots of usefull information, I really appreciate it. Anyone with a Convoy L2 XM-L2 who would dare estimate diameter of the beam and throw compared to my Convoy C8 XM-L2 and, correctly assumed above, a 8x7135 driver?
Tonight the air was rather clear and I found a field at the back of the woods behind my town, away from the lights, and recorded some distances with a laser rangefinder. Its my hunting rangefinder, it has a range of 600yards and is quite accurate. With my C8 I have usefull light, so that I can observe wildlife through binoculars, out to max 250 yards. I would love to stretch that to 350 yards, but I do find the spill and rather large hotspot from the XM-L2 really usefull. This is why i am leaning towards L2 with XM-L2 right now, but I do not know if it will have the extra throw I’m after.
I also ordered a C8 with XP-L HI since I figure its a really inexpensive way to get a feeling for how I like the light pattern with XP-L HI diode. Then maybe try a FET driver in it, hmm…
I can’t give you exact numbers right now but I can share my experience which in the Convoy category is quite a lot. I can honestly say that when the first L2 was made (XM-L2 dome-on single cell version) the stock light absolutely smoked the C8 in my opinion in every way. The hotspot is brighter, it throws further and the spill is wonderfully usable. While the XPL-HI version of the L2 has a tighter hotspot and a bit more throw, in my opinion the original XM-L2 version has an overall more useful beam. It’s only slightly more power than the C8 at 3.0A but the larger reflector and just better overall design leaves the C8 in the dust. This includes a very nicely modded XinTD C8 putting out 1500+ lumens as well as a handful of other excellent C8 models in both modded and stock forms. Opinions vary of course but in my personal opinion the XM-L2 version of the L2 is fantastic. If you have the ability to do nothing more than install your own driver the L2 can do things the C8 can only dream of. That said, the L2 is not quite as pocket friendly as the C8 but either can be carried in a jacket pocket. The L2 without the extension is only about 2 cm longer than a C8 though it is fatter particularly at the head by around 18 mm. Neither light is going to fit comfortably in a pants pocket but a jacket pocket is doable. I don’t know if that helped but I felt compelled to speak as I often do.
I got a C8 army, lots of variations on a theme. If I want a mild thrower, it’s the XP-E2. If I want lots more lumenage and a wider hotspot, it’s the XP-L HI. If I want a flashlight equivalent of a sniper rifle, out comes the L2.
And that’s not even counting the C8s in various tints.
’Though I’d reflash the L2 to 1-mode only, wide open. For me, it’s a dedicated thrower, so don’t care about (and don’t want) multiple modes. All my DIY C8s are 1-mode. C8 ≠ EDC.
If your looking at the L2 take a look at the convoy L6. Yes it’s big, but it makes a lot a light and as far as big lights go it’s a bargain. Get a coupon code from m4dm4x and some 26650’s
Nah, I gotta disagree. The L2 is a dedicated thrower. I don’t believe in “usable spill” on a light like that.
To me, the L2 is what you drag out when the tightest C8 still doesn’t “reach”. I can’t think of anything that can beat it.
And the C8 is what you use when your EDC doesn’t have enough “reach”.
I’ve got a variety of C8s, even older XM-Ls, but the ones I go for are the XP-E2 and the XP-L HI. Tightest hotspots I could get, just different brightness levels. Thinking of dedoming an XP-G/-2/-3 to see how that fares.
A C8 with wider hotspot, OP reflector, etc., just washes away what makes the C8 special, and makes it more of a general purpose light (but not general-purpose enough). Kinda like adding rear seats and a towing hitch to a F1 racecar. It might be more “useful”, but it’s not really a F1 racecar anymore.
My ’502 EDC (XP-L, SMO reflector) has a decent hotspot and lots of spill. That does most of what I need for an EDC light. If I need something floodier, I got my S2+ in my bag. And the S2+ has very little “reach” beyond a few yards. It’ll light up most of my yard, but not very brightly at all, even on high. If I want to see what’s Out There, out comes Mr C8.
I had 2 identical Thorfire C8’s , modded one of them and left the other stock for comparison.
You can get the pretty much double the distance , with less spill using a Dedomed emitter like the XM-L2 U4 1C on a Noctigon board. Add a FET driver and a spring bypass at each end and in mine I am getting 4.91 amps at the tail at start and leveling off at about 4.8 amps after 30 to 45 seconds. Getting 500 plus yards of throw from the modded one now.
Here are the comparison pictures of those at 175 yards , the STOCK light didn’t even come close to making the 500 yards in the other shot of the modded one. The U4 1A actually gives a little better tint than the 1C when Dedomed for a thrower as it does not get quite as warm a tint.
EDIT: if you are wanting something that will far surpass the C8’s , you might consider the Maxtoch 2X. It cost a little more than the L2 , but it is also 200 grams lighter than the L2 and has better throw than the L2 in stock form does by far.
Here is the link to the Group Buy I did on it awhile back with the review of the light in there also. Just scroll down slightly and you will see the video and right below that is the link to the light.
Daytime Control shot 175 yards
Stock C8 175 yards
( Thorfire)
Modded C8 175 yards
Daytime Control shot 500 yards
Modded C8 …. 500 yards to far trees in center
Thanks for sharing all your experience and knowledge. I just ordered a Convoy L2 XM-L2 U2 1A. I also have a Convoy C8 host coming, and plan to experiment a little with different emitters to see the difference for myself.
You can easily reach that with a c8 I have one with a dedomed xml2 u4 1c thats in a light sphere makes 1400+ lumens and over 715 yards of throw. Actually got that one from robo above. Now when a light says reaches 300 yards etc that is equivalent to .25lux or moonlight. I always subtract around a 1/3 for useful light
I have a old emitter xpg2 s4 2b that will throws further than that. Even the new style s4 2b can get 165k only 10-15% difference from when Cree changed production methods some older ones reached 180k. I highly recommend this for your use. This thing is nothing but throw. Very intense hot spot.
One of my favorites is my c8 xpl hi v3 3c roughly around 1800 lumens and it will reach out and touch you over 300 yards away. The xml2 and xpl share the same die size a dedome xpl v6 0d is a good led as well. I know tom on here has successfully dedomed one of the new xpl2 emitters and it would do even better. But honestly a direct drive xpl hi would meet your 350 yard needs. A xpg2 or dedomed xml2 will easily pass that barrier as you see from the photos above. Next c8 is going to be the xpl2 w2 2b emitter dbcustom built one with 2024 lumens. 2k lumen c8 gotta add to the c8 collection
I have a few x6s that will reach out the distance. I’ll use them to light up a water tower few hundred yards away. Have one with dedomed xpg2, xpl hi, dedomed xml2 u4 1c, triple xpl v6 3d, xpl2 w2 2b. In a week or two will have one with a 219c 4000k nichia as you cab tell c8/x6 are my favorite lights hand down cheap all around solid build and out throw just about anything out there. But for a stock light the 2x shooter is the best for the price range its in. Uses a dedomed xml2 and get 1000 yards of throw stock. Just put a couple 18650s in and your good to go. Its on my list this year just out of my price range. When a c8 host and parts is only around $20-25 and can reach 2/3 of the 2x distance
I can’t argue with your logic one bit. I would have never chosen to build an L2 with a domed emitter if I were a modder which I’m not. I’m slowly gathering equipment and knowledge but I don’t build lights yet. All I can report is my own experience. Having the first production model of the newer generation L2 which came with a standard XM-L2 I was shocked at how much I liked it and how much better it performed than my collection of modded C8s. Now this is based on eye alone but in that regard it seemed to at least match the best of my FET driven dedomed C8s in throw while adding an impressive amount of useful spill.
In the next L2 revision we added the extension tube and changed the stock emitter to XPL-HI. It was a different driver too but as far as power it was the same. Side by side I preferred the original. My rev.02 L2 that I was comparing it to didn’t impress me as much. To be fair my original single cell XM-L2 L2 was the standard CW and my rev.02 I ordered in the U6-3A XPL-HI and the U binned XPL emitters while having a nice tint are lower in output so that certainly factors into my previous statement. I have a few cells charging now to give me a better side-by-side comparison and I also now have a current production L2 with the now standard XPL HI V2-1A. Based on a quick comparison with the XM-L2 CW vs. the XP-L2 CW I may have been comparing oranges to clementines and may be forced to retract my previous statement of preference. I don’t know if I’ll have time to complete this experiment tonight but I’m quite happy to wait until tomorrow to eat my words if that’s what it comes to.
Since I got so much good information in this thread i would like to add my own experiences, now that I have aquired a few lights and used them for a little while.
I got a convoy L2 XM-L2 U2-1A. The tint turned out to be very white for my use, where I live there is almost always some mist or humidity in the air in winter, and the reflection was quite bad. I loved the throw, the hotspot and the spill of the L2 with the XM-L2 though. So I changed the emitter to XM-L2 U3 3C.
I also played a little with two Convoy C8’s, one with the same emitter as above (XM-L2 U2 1A) and the other I bought as a host, installed a Convoy 8x7135 driver with new software + XP-L HI V2 3A.
Comparing the C8 with the XP-L HI and the L2 with the XM-L2 they give, to the naked eye (no measurements) the exact same size hotspot and spill, but the L2’s hotspot and spill is slightly brighter and more defined. In field use the L2/XM-L2 simply gives a bit more light than the C8/XP-L HI. I measured distances to both thick forest and some open meadows a cross a frozen lake with a laser rangefinder, and it seemed I only got ca. 20-30 yards more range with the L2, but at the same time the spill was brighter and more useful.
So EasyB was spot on in the post above: “Very approximately, the L2 with XML2 will have similar beam size and throw to the C8 with XPL HI.”
With my L2 I can study terrain and wildlife through my binoculars out to ca. 320-350 yards, on a clear night. This is really all the “throw” I need, so I am very happy with both lights. I will use the L2 when I need a brighter spill for more general use. like when I’m on a lake, and for more runtime. I use the liitokala 26650’s and the light run for a long time, much longer off course than the c8.
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)but rather a nice challenge.
Thorfire)
