New Noctigon M43 - no thermal paste & other issues...

[SPL15]

Not saying it’s a common issue, but you may want to verify that your M43 does in fact have heatsink compound under the MCPCB…
Got my Nichia 219C 80+ version a few days ago, brand new in box; no thermal compound under the MCPCB (one of several other manufacturing defects noted on my sample…)…
Noticed pretty significant tint shift during ‘button pressed’ turbo mode (70C limit), as well as noticeable dimming way before the light blinked to signal throttling; flashlight would get hot & throttle, eventually, but it took much longer than it should’ve (about 4 minutes), which I found pretty odd…
Luckily, I only did it once, before I took it apart to clean out random lint / hair behind the glass, as well as replace one of the Carclo optics that had a defect, which was also hiding a small soldering iron ding on one of the LED domes…
The annoying thing is, there was evidence that there was once thermal compound under the MCPCB (faint chalky residue in the fine machining grooves on the head), but it was obviously wiped off / removed & there was no evidence of thermal compound ever being on the bottom of the MCPCB…
Also had to clean the run-off of flux from the bottom of the MCPCB, as well as the front of it, before I added thermal compound… HUGE difference when I went to solder the leads back onto the MCPCB, had to use a 250 watt iron to get a good clean & quick solder joint without having to heat the entire MCPCB up; my pencil point regulated Hakko iron simply wasn’t up to the task after the thermal paste was added.

Also fixed the negative terminal plate, which had two cross threaded & stripped screws due to the holes in the battery tube being drilled slightly off center… Still need to remove the positive terminal plate in order to see why the driver PCB isn’t sitting flat, which is causing the battery tube to only make contact on one tiny small area of the driver… I 1st thought it was the battery tube not being cut perfectly perpendicular to the threads, but it’s actually due to the driver not sitting flat…
Design / Engineering quality wise, I give the M43 an 8.5 out of 10. The design makes sense for its intended purpose / market, the inherent compromises made for the desired package size make sense, and the industrial design works well. Would have preferred a 2S2P configuration for the efficiency benefit, a 1/2" longer battery tube to fit the hand better (as well as fit the 2S2P configuration), and a 55-60C ‘normal’ turbo temp limit. Would also like to see UI3 have more granularity between brightness steps, something like Lucidrv2 would be awesome!
Production / Manufacturing quality wise, my sample gets a 1… It would have been zero if the defects were not repairable, but it did turn on & the defects are fixable by me, so it gets a 1… Some folks may be a bit bent out of shape for me detailing all of the issues without 1st going to the manufacturer for resolution; however, my own experience having spent LOTS of time as an engineer in consumer products, shows that these types of complacent manufacturing defects are MUCH more prioritized when made public. Simply handing out replacement products behind the scenes does not fix the issue, & eventually will destroy the brand due to previous customers not buying your next product.

[djozz]

Welcome to BLF!

I think you are correct posting these issues here, not so much to press the manufacturer to get their stuff in order (even though you are presenting the issues in a thoughtful way, you do not give the manufacturer the opportunity to defend himself), but more to warn the flashlight community that something is going on with this flashlight, that from what I have read sofar was an example of perfect workmanship.

[mattjk]

I noticed before companies like banggood don’t really pay much attention to getting a good thermal path between the mcpcb and heatsink (have had to file the edge of one to get it to fit before/lack of thermal compound) would have expected better from a premium light though.

[lyse99]

@OP,
That made up for some pretty sad reading.
Waiting for the very same light to arrive.

But a noob question, with no thermal compound should it not drop quicker from turbo as a result?

Not to keen to open it as it arrives as first task, so what is the normal drop from turbo time?
My thought is if that time is about right it should be reasonable OK and if it “pass” a visual inspection.

-lyse99

[strango]

@lyse99

@OP,
That made up for some pretty sad reading.
Waiting for the very same light to arrive.

But a noob question, with no thermal compound should it not drop quicker from turbo as a result?

-lyse99

I guess no.
No thermal compound means worse heat conduction from MCPCB to pill/driver where I believe thermo sensor placed. So when MCPCB is already hot driver still thinks that temp is OK.

[hIKARInoob]

@lyse99

But a noob question, with no thermal compound should it not drop quicker from turbo as a result?

That is the case if the thermal sensor is placed on the led board, for example Thrunite does this. This is not the case with the Noctigon; the thermal sensor is (most likely) on the driver, which is physically separated from the the led board (heat source).

[Edness]

Where did you get the light from?

[lyse99]

@strango, hIKARInoob
Thanks for the explanations, makes sense.

But that means that if step down time do exceed with let’s say 30℅ that could indicate bad cooling compound. I guess the stepdown time can be found so I will look a bit for it and maybe a disasamble video as well

Well time will tell how it turns out

-lyse99

[Easyrr]

Is anyone aware that the M43 uses a special japanese thermal compound that dries totally when first hot and barely noticable even after the 1st hot session but it is THERE. Can be that OP has a real trouble case but keep this in mind.

[lyse99]

@Easyrr

Is anyone aware that the M43 uses a special japanese thermal compound that dries totally when first hot and barely noticable even after the 1st hot session but it is THERE. Can be that OP has a real trouble case but keep this in mind.

That really do sound like one should change it anyhow or?
Strange they use such subpar product in a relatively expensive flashlight, also I thought I did read up in a decent way and got the feel that it was a pretty solid product before ordering, now I am not so sure of my investigational skills any more

Would like regular Arctic Silver that I use for my pc builds do the trick or is there better stuff to use in this case?

-lyse99

[emarkd]

Not trying to “fanboi” over here, but I trust Hank at Noctigon to design and spec a proper product, and the number of happy Noctigon customers on this and other forums would indicate the same. The M43, as designed, is a fantastic product. That’s not to say that something unusual couldn’t have happened during the construction of this one light - any factory-made item is subject to a certain (hopefully small) number of defective items. But I hope nobody reading this jumps to the conclusion that something is wrong with most/all M43s. That’s simply not the case.

On the thermal compound issue, there really should be very little of the stuff in any light. Even the best thermal compound is inferior to a perfect metal-to-metal connection. Unfortunately perfect metal surfaces are really hard to achieve, so thermal compounds are used to “fill in the gaps” so to speak, but there should be only the minimum required to achieve that goal, not gobs of the stuff running out of the edges, like the cream in the middle of an oreo cookie.

[djburkes]

@emarkd

Not trying to “fanboi” over here, but I trust Hank at Noctigon to design and spec a proper product, and the number of happy Noctigon customers on this and other forums would indicate the same. The M43, as designed, is a fantastic product. That’s not to say that something unusual couldn’t have happened during the construction of this one light - any factory-made item is subject to a certain (hopefully small) number of defective items. But I hope nobody reading this jumps to the conclusion that something is wrong with most/all M43s. That’s simply not the case.

On the thermal compound issue, there really should be very little of the stuff in any light. Even the best thermal compound is inferior to a perfect metal-to-metal connection. Unfortunately perfect metal surfaces are really hard to achieve, so thermal compounds are used to “fill in the gaps” so to speak, but there should be only the minimum required to achieve that goal, not gobs of the stuff running out of the edges, like the cream in the middle of an oreo cookie.

Just not Double Stuf.

[Easyrr]

@lyse99: no, it should be fine just the way it is. This kind of thermal conductor is like a glue. It’s there, makes the connection and bonds the surfaces, period. Once you open it the bonds crack and will not work as it should anymore. Clean surfaces with IPA and arctic silver will do the job, but as said before only in limited amount.

[djozz]

@PeterRamish

I like to try and read between the lines when reading troll posts to figure out what the mentality is … I assume you tiped it in your last line … trying to accomplish perhaps …“eventually (…) destroy the brand due to previous customers not buying (…) next product.”

If the OP is a troll post at least it is a clever one, the poster knows his flashlight stuff to compose a post like this.

[hIKARInoob]

@djozz

@PeterRamish

I like to try and read between the lines when reading troll posts to figure out what the mentality is … I assume you tiped it in your last line … trying to accomplish perhaps …“eventually (…) destroy the brand due to previous customers not buying (…) next product.”

If the OP is a troll post at least it is a clever one, the poster knows his flashlight stuff to compose a post like this.

The evolution from Rickrolling to Meteorrolling.

[Enderman]

@Easyrr

@lyse99: no, it should be fine just the way it is. This kind of thermal conductor is like a glue. It’s there, makes the connection and bonds the surfaces, period. Once you open it the bonds crack and will not work as it should anymore. Clean surfaces with IPA and arctic silver will do the job, but as said before only in limited amount.

The LED PCB is held in by screws, so no, that is not thermal adhesive it is just thermal paste.

[Easyrr]

Not said it’s thermal adhesive but it’s like a some kind of glue or something transparent totally dries and Hank applies it very carefully in a really small amount. watch my wording

Anyhow I have gone thru all the fonarevka forum topics of the Meteor (the M43’s original place of birth) read thousands of lines seen some issues and defects but not a single tint shift case. So either the OP got a real monday lemon or confused the M43 with any random Manker light…

[Enderman]

@Easyrr

Not said it’s thermal adhesive but it’s like a some kind of glue or something transparent totally dries and Hank applies it very carefully in a really small amount. watch my wording

In English adhesive is another word for glue, they mean the same thing.
You said “is like a glue. It’s there, makes the connection and bonds the surfaces”

No it is not, it is just thermal paste.
Good thermal paste like MX-4 does not have curing time and does not dry out.
Only thermal epoxies/adhesives or cheap thermal pastes dry out.

[Easyrr]

Hey, thanks for educating me :partying_face: It’s too late here in the east to go and look up the corresponding topic where it was described by Hank or Richard what that special thermal conductive stuff is, but will do later and send you. Best word I got for it is LIKE glue: once you open the light and separate the mcpcb from the shelf the thermal stuff will not work any more so it’s definetly not a thermal paste.

[Enderman]

@Easyrr

Hey, thanks for educating me :partying_face: It’s too late here in the east to go and look up the corresponding topic where it was described by Hank or Richard what that special thermal conductive stuff is, but will do later and send you. Best word I got for it is LIKE glue: once you open the light and separate the mcpcb from the shelf the thermal stuff will not work any more so it’s definetly not a thermal paste.

That’s exactly how thermal paste works…
When you separate the two surfaces you need to reapply it because otherwise air bubbles will get trapped and affect performance…