[UPDATE:v1.7.1,Q8&1chanOTSM]bistro-HD, bistro your way. OTSM, eswitch(devel), Vcc reads, safe_presses, turbo timeout...

245 posts / 0 new
Last post
KFulton
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 04/12/2017 - 12:31
Posts: 27
Location: Rochester, NY USA

LightRider wrote:
Thanks for the feedback! I was just wondering how people did what you describe in #6.

I wonder if there is a place to buy the convoy s3 retaining rings?

Why would you want to buy them separately? They don’t fit in anything else that I know of, and unless you lose one, any S3 host or complete light you buy should already have one.

LightRider
LightRider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: 08/05/2015 - 09:52
Posts: 2007
Location: U.P. MI, USA

KFulton wrote:
LightRider wrote:
Thanks for the feedback! I was just wondering how people did what you describe in #6.

I wonder if there is a place to buy the convoy s3 retaining rings?

Why would you want to buy them separately? They don’t fit in anything else that I know of, and unless you lose one, any S3 host or complete light you buy should already have one.

Well yes, if they don’t fit anything else there is then no need. I was assuming that they would fit the other convoy s-series lights but i guess they do not.

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Online
Last seen: 3 min 11 sec ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 5255
Location: Germany

this capacitor has the exact same specs and costs half of the Visay

https://www.digikey.de/product-detail/en/avx-corporation/F981A476MSA/478...

dont make the mistake and populate C1 with 10uF, costed me over 2 hours to find this mistake

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Online
Last seen: 3 min 11 sec ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 5255
Location: Germany

I tried to flash the Bistro HD OTC from the supplied HEX files

medium presses dont work
when I flash TA Bistro it works

can someone send me a hex that work OK?

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 9810
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

I have a bistro-HD driver for testing now. After building a light and running some tests, maybe I can merge the code into the repository.

DavidEF
DavidEF's picture
Online
Last seen: 7 min 33 sec ago
Joined: 06/05/2014 - 06:00
Posts: 7587
Location: Salisbury, North Carolina, USA

ToyKeeper wrote:
I have a bistro-HD driver for testing now. After building a light and running some tests, maybe I can merge the code into the repository.

That would be very nice. Thanks!

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

ZozzV6
ZozzV6's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 21 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 12:19
Posts: 2300
Location: Near to my soldering iron.

Can someone help me choose if there is an MCU on this list that will work with OTSM?

I think this is OK but I’m not sure. Can someone confirm that?
I can buy from this site locally so I hope one of them will be good.

RotorHead64
RotorHead64's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
Joined: 10/31/2015 - 02:49
Posts: 428
Location: United States

I'm pretty sure the one you listed will work but it's listed as no stock which seems to be the case everywhere for the 25V. I've used the 45V but it's also not in stock on that site. This is in stock and should work.

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 1 hour ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 8499
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

IIRC only the 45V has been tested to work. The 25v doesn’t offer the feature needed and the 85v is iffy on weather you get one that works but I have never tried HD myself so talking second hand here.

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 9810
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

Sorry for the delay. I’ve had some distractions lately…

Anyway, I have a bistro-HD driver with tiny25v 10ssu and it appears to work. There is nothing on the OTC pads, but it is still able to do short/med/long timings while disconnected from power.

I should know more details soon, but it does at least appear to work with attiny25v.

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Online
Last seen: 3 min 11 sec ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 5255
Location: Germany

I got problems to get 2S working with Attiny25V

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 9810
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

2S/3S/4S is always tricky on drivers created primarily for 1S. The MCU needs its VCC capped by a zener or LDO, the MCU needs to read voltage through a divider, the 7135 chip(s) tend not to work, LVP tends to be more temperamental, components need to be rated for higher voltage, capacitors tend to drain at a different rate, the battery is more sensitive to differences between cells, etc. The problems might not be specific to the MCU type.

tocirahl
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 10/18/2016 - 13:00
Posts: 110
Location: Austin, TX

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I think I’ve found a bug in the bistro-HD code.

In the classic configuration (OTC, no OTSM, no E-SWITCH) , it seems that the wake_count_med and wake_count_short variables are being set to their OTSM values (as defined by wake_time_short and wake_time_med) instead of their proper OTC values (as defined by CAP_MED and CAP_SHORT). It seems the proper undefs / redefs appear in the code in the wrong place and aren’t getting picked up correctly and should be put at the top along with the other defines.

The result of this bug is that in the OTC configuration it is nearly impossible to “medium press,” since short press is set to ~6 and medium press is set to ~9. Short press works ok but is very short as a result.

I’d be more than happy to submit a patch if you guys accept those?

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 9810
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

Patches are awesome! If you have one, please send it. Big Smile

Also, thanks for the reminder. I think I forgot … again … to merge BistroHD into the main repository. I tested it on an OTSM driver KFulton sent me (thanks again for that!) and it worked, but then life happened and I don’t think I ever got back to it.

Edit: Bistro-HD is merged and uploaded to the trunk branch. If you don’t mind using Launchpad, merge proposals there are always welcome. Otherwise, I can also take pretty much any other type of patch.

tocirahl
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 10/18/2016 - 13:00
Posts: 110
Location: Austin, TX

I’m having trouble figuring out how to get Bazaar set up, so here’s a patch for bistro-HD.c instead.

Everything compiles that I’ve tested, but I can’t guarantee it doesn’t break other configs :P.

Google Drive Link

Flintrock
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 09/10/2016 - 20:29
Posts: 1544

Hey folks, I feel a little bad abandoning this thread.  It look like others have given it a little life, maybe even the originator of it all TK herself.  I'll see if I can catch up soon.

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Online
Last seen: 3 min 11 sec ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 5255
Location: Germany

I got one problem with 2S OTSM drivers with the 17mm TA board LDO I got it working
but with 22mm other LDO its not working at all

Flintrock
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 09/10/2016 - 20:29
Posts: 1544

Cool, I'm a little surprised someone tried to get 2S working at all, I mean it should have worked though. I wrote up some details in the manual didn't I? It's actually been awhile since I thought about it, but I think it needs pretty tight tolerances on the resistors.  Maybe tolerances and variation are the issue.  I wouldn't think there is any difference in the 17mm and 22m.  Do you know of any difference in the circuit for the two?  Is it just the number of 7135's?

Flintrock
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 09/10/2016 - 20:29
Posts: 1544

tocirahl wrote:
I'm having trouble figuring out how to get Bazaar set up, so here's a patch for bistro-HD.c instead. Everything compiles that I've tested, but I can't guarantee it doesn't break other configs :P. "Google Drive Link":https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzJSVvz59f4CdmE2UDBMSWpnbFE/view?usp=sh...

 

This is a good point for patching HD.  You mean you tested compiling all the provided build configurations, just not with every conceivable config permutation?  That's probably pretty good.  It's good with changes to HD to run the full build process to see if everything still builds.  If it does, it's some good assurance that the patch didn't break any of the config options permutations.  This was a big part of the work in HD actually was cleaning up a bunch of older config options that had become incompatible and making them all compatible again.

Flintrock
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 09/10/2016 - 20:29
Posts: 1544

Texas_Ace wrote:
IIRC only the 45V has been tested to work. The 25v doesn't offer the feature needed and the 85v is iffy on weather you get one that works but I have never tried HD myself so talking second hand here.

 

Exactly right for OTSM.  Somewhere I wrote the necessary versions, or you can find it in the attiny manual  under BODS.  In theory compatible versions exist for all three versions as I recall.  In the real world, only the 45V's seem to be selling with the needed version level.  You could call the 85v iffy, if by iffy you mean there are no known, to us, accounts of anyone ever receiving one of a late enough version to work. Presumably someday the early version stock will run out and that will change, but it could be years if ever.  The 45V is the way to go for OTSM. (see next post)

Flintrock
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 09/10/2016 - 20:29
Posts: 1544

You know I've confused myself on this now... been too long.  I'm pretty sure my 25V did work.  It's just the regular 25 that didn't.  Yes, half the point of the HD was to get it to fit in a 25.  I'm pretty sure this is right.  You do have to check the revision letter on the back though to be sure.   If it's a late enough revision, it will certainly work.

 

Edit, see post 69, yes I found the  attiny25V's I ordered working, and I think even attiny25 non V's actually (it's coming back to me, an attiny25 non-V was my original test chip in fact where I first got BODS working, just dug the board out of the drawer to check) , although non-V isn't good for OTSM anyway.

 

So it's just the 85's that don't work.  But do see post 69 for revision letters and be sure to check the revision code on your chip before wasting time soldering it.

 

As for stock, 25V's were listed on aliexpress last time I checked. Be sure to search for SSU to get the small footprint.  It's not always very cheap to order just one there though.

tocirahl
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 10/18/2016 - 13:00
Posts: 110
Location: Austin, TX
Flintrock wrote:

tocirahl wrote:
I’m having trouble figuring out how to get Bazaar set up, so here’s a patch for bistro-HD.c instead. Everything compiles that I’ve tested, but I can’t guarantee it doesn’t break other configs :P. Google Drive Link


 


This is a good point for patching HD.  You mean you tested compiling all the provided build configurations, just not with every conceivable config permutation?  That’s probably pretty good.  It’s good with changes to HD to run the full build process to see if everything still builds.  If it does, it’s some good assurance that the patch didn’t break any of the config options permutations.  This was a big part of the work in HD actually was cleaning up a bunch of older config options that had become incompatible and making them all compatible again.

Everything builds (at least all the default included configs) but I can’t test all the different builds.

RotorHead64
RotorHead64's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
Joined: 10/31/2015 - 02:49
Posts: 428
Location: United States

Glad to see you’re back Flintrock. I’ve successfully built a couple 26mm TA LDO 3s OTSM and several 1s 17mm OTSM drivers. They all used the 25V and 45V. I have some 85v 10su (have not tried them yet) that came from arrow and mouser.

RotorHead64
RotorHead64's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
Joined: 10/31/2015 - 02:49
Posts: 428
Location: United States

Oh yeah, I’ve been meaning to ask about the 47uf tantalum capacitors. The description for the p/n you gave says 47uf , 10 volts, 20%. If it’s rated for only 10volts what will be the long term effect of running it at 3+ cell voltage? Should we find one that’s rated higher for 3+ cell drivers?

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 9810
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

The patch is simple enough, but I can’t build the whole suite of hex files unless I rewrite the Makefile to make it unix-compatible. That will have to be a task for when I’m a bit more awake.

Flintrock
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 09/10/2016 - 20:29
Posts: 1544

RotorHead64 wrote:
Oh yeah, I've been meaning to ask about the 47uf tantalum capacitors. The description for the p/n you gave says 47uf , 10 volts, 20%. If it's rated for only 10volts what will be the long term effect of running it at 3+ cell voltage? Should we find one that's rated higher for 3+ cell drivers?

 

Well, if you built it right, the OTSM cap should be under the regulated LDO output voltage.  Yes, actually placing 12V on those caps would be risky at best, but that shouldn't be happening, even in 3S.

 

ToyKeeper wrote:
The patch is simple enough, but I can't build the whole suite of hex files unless I rewrite the Makefile to make it unix-compatible. That will have to be a task for when I'm a bit more awake.

 

Hmm.. I've written more Makefiles in linux than windows, and didn't particularly notice the syntax difference, but usually I start with something and make changes, so easily could have missed it.  It might be that all that is needed is to define the paths correctly though (like the batch file does), and/or a couple of command aliases.  I'm not sure.  I like linux, but for this atmel stuff, I don't know how anyone can do as much developing as you do without the gdb interface/simulator in atmel studio.  It's just too great for understanding the machine state and finding bugs, and seems completely indispensable for embedded code like this where the only other testing option is to flash it and test things one blink and re-flash at a time.  Is there a simulator for linux?

 

 However, while I didn't provide a linux-tested Makefile, I did provide one that works without atmel studio from the command-line, which might at least make a linux person a little more comfortable.  Still if you're not using windows then you're not.

 

 

 

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 9810
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3
Flintrock wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
The patch is simple enough, but I can’t build the whole suite of hex files unless I rewrite the Makefile to make it unix-compatible. That will have to be a task for when I’m a bit more awake.

Hmm.. I’ve written more Makefiles in linux than windows, and didn’t particularly notice the syntax difference, but usually I start with something and make changes, so easily could have missed it.  It might be that all that is needed is to define the paths correctly though (like the batch file does), and/or a couple of command aliases.  I’m not sure.  I like linux, but for this atmel stuff, I don’t know how anyone can do as much developing as you do without the gdb interface/simulator in atmel studio.  It’s just too great for understanding the machine state and finding bugs, and seems completely indispensable for embedded code like this where the only other testing option is to flash it and test things one blink and re-flash at a time.  Is there a simulator for linux?

Oh, it looked like I just need to remove the hardcoded paths and .exe extensions, and rewrite the shell portions for Bourne shell instead of DOS. It shouldn’t be hard, but I haven’t slept much lately because I’m trying to be diurnal and that doesn’t come naturally for me.

OTOH, programming without a debugger? That’s pretty natural for me. I haven’t even looked to see if there’s a simulator, because I’ve never really needed one. I can generally figure out what’s happening by simulating in my head. The main parts I need hardware for are to blink out measurements from the sensors, which the emulator can’t do anyway.

Flintrock
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 09/10/2016 - 20:29
Posts: 1544

Yeah, ok, there might be some slashes that need to be rotated 90 degrees.  Sure even simple things require making time to do it.  It would be nice if there's a way to generalize it to work.  Dos might even accept the linux slashes these days and I'm not sure the command syntaxes are different other than the .exe's.  There may be some other details though.   

Flintrock
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 09/10/2016 - 20:29
Posts: 1544

Lexel wrote:
this capacitor has the exact same specs and costs half of the Visay https://www.digikey.de/product-detail/en/avx-corporation/F981A476MSA/478... dont make the mistake and populate C1 with 10uF, costed me over 2 hours to find this mistake

 

It may be fine.  I didn't base that selection just on the label specs though.  I looked for something with good DC bias curves and good temperature derating curves.  Neither are shown for that.  I didn't take any chances on the prototype because I wanted to make it work, not leave myself wondering why it didn't.  Of the two I'd be more worried about DC bias.  Even if it's worse it will still work, it may just struggle more for example with very low batteries and/or higher timing resolution settings.  Or, it may work just as well.  10V is pretty high, most DC bias curves don't fall too much before 30% of rated voltage, so it's likely to be ok.  Half price is certainly nice.

Flintrock
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 09/10/2016 - 20:29
Posts: 1544

Trying to catch up on a few questions:

 

Lexel wrote:
I tried to contact flintrock over PM I got a question if 2S OTSM works with zener diode or if the LDO is nessesary

 

I'm not going to say it's impossible to get a zener working, but... I think usually you use a balast resistor to set a bias current on the zener right? If you skipped that and if the zener had low enough reverse leakage, maybe it could work, maybe (or I'm wrong and it's not even maybe).  Anyway, I'm not taking credit for that mod.  At your own risk.

 

Someone asked about blf emu issues... I can't say.  I don't have any attiny13's and actually I never tested it on one.  I think I did test an attiny25 version of it and had it working, possibly with a modified board layout to match my test board.  Not sure what's going on there.  hmm... 

Pages