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Venom
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@teacher That was my plan. I was going to do a little research to see want kind of flaws the ut61e has and to see if I kind find more info on MM600. I was going to use them for auto and around the house beside checking battery.

While I was at Walmart I pick up the ONN charger they had in stock.

Venom
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I have to give a BIG thanks to teacher for answering all of my question and to everyone else that answer my question. It’s much appreciated.

teacher
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Venom wrote:
@teacher That was my plan. I was going to do a little research to see want kind of flaws the ut61e has and to see if I kind find more info on MM600. I was going to use them for auto and around the house beside checking battery.

While I was at Walmart I pick up the ONN charger they had in stock.

That sounds like a good plan my friend. Glad they restocked the ONN USB charger for you. They have been & are working well for me.

Venom wrote:
I have to give a BIG thanks to teacher for answering all of my question and to everyone else that answer my question. It’s much appreciated.
Your welcome Venom… thank you, it was my pleasure. I’m glad we could be of assistance my friend.
Looking forward to seeing you around here. Smile

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Venom
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Doing a little more research on DMM. Is it worth getting a DMM if it can’t be calibrated?

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Venom wrote:
Doing a little more research on DMM. Is it worth getting a DMM if it can’t be calibrated?

Depends on return policy.

If you can return it for a full refund without a hassle, then it may be worth trying. When you get it, compare it against a known reference and if it’s pretty close, then you can keep it. Otherwise, return it.

Venom
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If I go through Home Depot it has a 30 days return policy. None of the Klein Tool DMM can be calibrated. My concern is after the warranty period if the calibration goes out i’m stuck with a expensive paper weight. I’ve been reading on different forums and it seems like the calibration goes off a little in about a year (not sure if it’s true).

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I see. Well, there are other DMMs out there in the same price range as Klein that can be calibrated.

If I didn’t already have a DMM, I would have gotten a Uni-T UT61E.

But let’s face it, we are splitting hairs here. Majority of these DMMs, even if they’re off, they’re off only slightly. For what we do here, these differences in readings would not be significant. So I would not go as far as calling them “paper weight”.

Venom
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Pete7874 wrote:
I see. Well, there are other DMMs out there in the same price range as Klein that can be calibrated.

If I didn’t already have a DMM, I would have gotten a Uni-T UT61E.

But let’s face it, we are splitting hairs here. Majority of these DMMs, even if they’re off, they’re off only slightly. For what we do here, these differences in readings would not be significant. So I would not go as far as calling them “paper weight”.

Since I’m not the only person using it I like to get one that is quite accurate without going over board on the price. It’s going to be used for more than checking batteries.

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Then get a Fluke.

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Pete7874 wrote:
Venom wrote:
Doing a little more research on DMM. Is it worth getting a DMM if it can’t be calibrated?
Depends on return policy.

If you can return it for a full refund without a hassle, then it may be worth trying. When you get it, compare it against a known reference and if it’s pretty close, then you can keep it. Otherwise, return it.


Venom wrote:
Pete7874 wrote:
I see. Well, there are other DMMs out there in the same price range as Klein that can be calibrated.

If I didn’t already have a DMM, I would have gotten a Uni-T UT61E.

But let’s face it, we are splitting hairs here. Majority of these DMMs, even if they’re off, they’re off only slightly. For what we do here, these differences in readings would not be significant. So I would not go as far as calling them “paper weight”.

Since I’m not the only person using it I like to get one that is quite accurate without going over board on the price. It’s going to be used for more than checking batteries.
Pete7874 wrote:
Then get a Fluke.
Most any modern day meter is very accurate. Remember the story of my years old Innova 3320?
For what we do that one is just fine… as are any number of others. But if you want absolute accuracy, and none of the cheaper brands or knockoffs fill the bill for you…..
Do like Pete7874 said and fork out the bucks for a Fluke. Smile

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Venom
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I knew that somebody is going to mention to get a Fluke. That why I mention I didn’t want to go over board on the price.

I guess I was asking if a cheap DMM can be accurate as a Fluke and reliable over time (I know teacher is going to mention 3320). If a DMM needs to be calibrated, does it hold the calibration for a long time or does it need yearly calibration?

teacher
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.
——-
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/145829/do-digital-multim...
———
The following is taken from the link above

For hobby/student DMMs, the answer is no. You don’t have to calibrate it every year. Please take note of the quote: “A long calibration period for the digital multimeter is normally to be advised, except when particularly demanding testing is required.”. For a 3 1/2 digit battery-powered DMM, most never get calibrated after being bought.

If you’re using a 6 1/2 digit unit, and measuring microvolts to trouble-shoot medical equipment, that’s another story.

It all comes down to how important absolute accuracy is to you.
———-
Here is another link that might be useful….

http://us.flukecal.com/blog/understanding-basics-digital-multimeter-cali...
———
@Venom
I think the answer to your question lies in how important is absolute accuracy to you?
If your meter reads 4.9998 V or 5.0001 V instead of absolute 5.0000 V….. is that acceptable to you?

Also be aware, as mentioned in the video & links above; that what I/we loosely refer to as “calibration”: does not always include adjustment.

Like anything else… this appears to be able to be taken as deep as one wants to go. Smile

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teacher
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I have found a few more things on calibration that I find interesting (even if I do not understand most of it… Facepalm . Smile ), so I thought I would share links to them.
They are listed in no particular order of importance. I just listed them as I found them. The ones that are not bold seemed less applicable to the subject “to me”… but I listed them anyway.
I listed so many because I did not have time to read them all right now & wanted to have a reference I could go back to.
There is a lot more to this than I imagined…… Wink
So, without further adieu; let us proceed. Big Smile

How to Calibrate Inexpensive Multimeters

I know I have mentioned a Innova 3320 meter many times. I am not saying it is a “quality” meter… in the big scheme of things it most likely is not. BUT, although I do have a more expensive meter, the Innova is just as accurate to 1/100th of a DC Volt as the more expensive meter.

For me this is more than adequate. I am not testing pacemakers, other medical devices, the Space Shuttle, or anything that has to do with life or death. Big Smile Sooooo, I’m good.

And as I said before, when I received the more expensive meter & a VRM (voltage reference module) as a gift from a BLF friend in the UK…. (thank you again Ian… Thumbs Up ); the years old/rough treated Innova and the brand new meter both were right on the money.

Sure the newer more expensive meter has more resolution, it will measure to 1/1000th DC V and do a bunch of other neat stuff such as temperature; that the Innova does not have or cannot do. And all that is pretty neat.

So basically, as far as “I am concerned”; a meter choice just boils down to how much money one wants to spend and the absolute accuracy they require.

And I am far from an “expert”….. so take that .02 for what it is worth.

But as for me, I am more than covered with what I have. Smile

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HKJ
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When looking for a DMM you also have to think about it usage.
Fluke is designed for mains work and will easily handle industrial or outdoor conditions, they do also use very good parts, meaning that the calibration will hold for a very long time.

Second up is Keysight(Agilent). They are very good, but a bit more technical than Fluke and in my opinion not as precise over time.

After that there is a couple of brands that is good and also usable in mains work.

Below that is all the cheaper DMMs, they may be precise, but the safety is not up to industrial mains work, as long as they are used for batteries and other low volt tasks there is no safety risk, but do not take them to a high power environment.

I usual use Fluke and Keysight DMM’s, I know they are very precise and I do not have to check them against my references very often (For precision over time nothing beats Fluke).

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

teacher
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^^^^^^^^^^^

Thank you HKJ….. Thumbs Up

I had mentioned it several pages back, but I only have one DMM that I would even think of taking close to Mains & it is not the Innova. Wink

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

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I haven’t read the whole thing; I just figured out you’re looking for a DMM? Here’s my take on why I’m happy with a cheaper DMM (maybe someone else already wrote something similar…).

1) I want to measure parasitic drain, and let’s say I measure 20 uA resulting in a self discharge time of 20 years. A 10% error is extremely high, resulting in 22uA and ~18 year discharge time, but nevertheless this is sufficiently accurate for me. I’m interested whether self discharge time is 20 years, 10 years, 1 year, or one month. That’s the kind of ball park range data I’m interested in, so there is no need for an accurate DMM.

2) I want to check status of my four 18650 cells after using them in a 4S flashlight. Let’s say my DMM says that voltage of one cell is 3.657 Volts. I’m not interested whether the actual voltage is this value, or perhaps it’s 3.75 or 3.51 Volts; the error would again be fairly large. Even if my DMM is not accurate, repeatability is high; this means that the voltage of my other three cells should be about 3.657 V as well. If this is not the case, then something is wrong with my cell, and I should monitor it during charging and next discharge.

Basically you pay a lot more for enhanced accuracy, and accuracy over many years of use (Fluke), but I’m not interested in absolute accurate values of voltage, current, lux (it’s on my DMM). I’m interested in differences in values of voltage, current and lux, and cheaper DMMs are good enough for this purpose.

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HKJ wrote:
When looking for a DMM you also have to think about it usage.
Fluke is designed for mains work and will easily handle industrial or outdoor conditions, they do also use very good parts, meaning that the calibration will hold for a very long time.

Second up is Keysight(Agilent). They are very good, but a bit more technical than Fluke and in my opinion not as precise over time.

After that there is a couple of brands that is good and also usable in mains work.

Below that is all the cheaper DMMs, they may be precise, but the safety is not up to industrial mains work, as long as they are used for batteries and other low volt tasks there is no safety risk, but do not take them to a high power environment.

I usual use Fluke and Keysight DMM’s, I know they are very precise and I do not have to check them against my references very often (For precision over time nothing beats Fluke).

Thanks for the reply! What are some of your opinion on the Uni-t UT61E the good and the bad and any issue?

Venom
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I guess It all comes down to how much to how much you want to spend for accuracy and your needs.

With the cheap DMM, can you measure house current 110v and 220v?

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Venom wrote:
What are some of your opinion on the Uni-t UT61E the good and the bad and any issue?

See here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20UNI-T%20UT61E%20UK.html

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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Venom wrote:
With the cheap DMM, can you measure house current 110v and 220v?

Usual yes, but it is more dangerous.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

Venom
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HKJ wrote:
Venom wrote:
What are some of your opinion on the Uni-t UT61E the good and the bad and any issue?

See here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20UNI-T%20UT61E%20UK.html

In your review, What do you mean by current ranges are bad at low voltage use and they have to high burden voltage? Are batteries considered low voltage with NiMh being at 1.2v and Li-Ion at 3.7v?

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Venom wrote:
HKJ wrote:
Venom wrote:
What are some of your opinion on the Uni-t UT61E the good and the bad and any issue?

See here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20UNI-T%20UT61E%20UK.html

In your review, What do you mean by current ranges are bad at low voltage use and they have to high burden voltage? Are batteries considered low voltage with NiMh being at 1.2v and Li-Ion at 3.7v?

Yes, batteries are low voltage. Depending on range you can loose up to 1.1 volt over the meter.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

Venom
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HKJ wrote:
Venom wrote:
HKJ wrote:
Venom wrote:
What are some of your opinion on the Uni-t UT61E the good and the bad and any issue?

See here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20UNI-T%20UT61E%20UK.html

In your review, What do you mean by current ranges are bad at low voltage use and they have to high burden voltage? Are batteries considered low voltage with NiMh being at 1.2v and Li-Ion at 3.7v?

Yes, batteries are low voltage. Depending on range you can loose up to 1.1 volt over the meter.

Is it because of the leads are junk or is it just the meter? Can a calibration fix the lost of voltage?

HKJ
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Venom wrote:
Is it because of the leads are junk or is it just the meter? Can a calibration fix the lost of voltage?

I will not call the meter junk, but it is not always good at measuring current. Calibration cannot fix it, using a higher range and loosing some digits is often a solution.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

Venom
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@ HKJ I was calling the test leads junk and not the meter (I worded it wrong). Is having the extra digits in a meter worth it or is that just in the UT61E model? Do you have any more reviews on DMM on your website?

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Venom wrote:
@ HKJ I was calling the test leads junk and not the meter (I worded it wrong). Is having the extra digits in a meter worth it or is that just in the UT61E model? Do you have any more reviews on DMM on your website?

If you need extra digit or not depends on you and what you do. You usual also get considerable better precision with one digit extra. I like the resolution and have meters up to 7½ digits.
One example on resolution:

A cheap meter says a LiIon has 4.18V specification for meter says 0.5%+2, this means voltage is betwen 4.14 and 4.22 volt.
A better meter says a LiIon has 4.183V specification for meter says 0.5%+2, this means voltage is betwen 4.16 and 4.21 volt.
A better meter says a LiIon has 4.183V specification for meter says 0.1%+2, this means voltage is betwen 4.18 and 4.19 volt.

I have been meaning to do more DMM reviews, but never had time to do it.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

kievik42
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Hi everyone,
I want to share with you my experience with reconditioning batteries method which I find on Candle Power Forums.

Few days ago I was interesting of reconditioning rechargeable batteries after watching the video on ““ezbatteries site”:http://ezbatteriesreconditioning.com Of course I was very skeptical because It looked too good for me. I could not believe that it could be possible, so I decided to check it. I was looking for movies before “how to recondition batteries” on youtube and other websites but I didn’t find any specific information in this topic. Especially when it comes to recondition rechargeable batteries (aa, 18650 etc.) or laptop batteries. I tried before only with car batteries and method turned out to be successful (epsom salt method – is easy to find on youtube). I had to take a risk and spend 47$ for this “extra” guide and.. It really works Smile
Actually I have about 10 reconditioned batteries and I’m in the process of testing performance of this batteries. So far it looks pretty good. I use deep cycle batteries (lead-acid) in my workshop from 2008 and I also wants to test this method for these batteries in the coming days. Soon will share the information about reconditioning this type of batteries. Does anyone have any experience with battery reconditioning? I will gladly share the informations.

HKJ
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gauss163 wrote:
DMMs measure current by inserting a resistor in series with the circuit, then measuring the voltage drop across the resistor.

A few very expensive meters do it another way and mostly eliminates burden voltage (This does not make them perfect ammeters).

The best way to get a low burden voltage is a DMM with fairly high resolution and then use a higher range than required, like you say. Knowing the DMM and when to do that select next range is very useful.

Many DMM’s have 3 current shuts:
uA shunt, mA shunt and 10A shunt, matching the settings on the switch. This means the low uA and low mA range has low burden voltage, but the high uA and high mA (often x000uA and x00mA ranges) has high burden voltage. To get low burden voltage select next higher range for these two ranges when using more than 10% of the range.
I.e. when measuring 0.5mA (500uA), do not do it on the uA range, but select the mA range.
Same with 50mA and up, use the 10A range (Most meters are missing a xA (like 2A) range).
A meter like UT61E with a 22000 reading will give a acceptable resolution in most cases.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

HKJ
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In total there are 4 options for measuring current:
1) A normal ammeter (DMM in current range)
2) A external shunt with a DMM, this way the best shunt value can be used.
3) A feedback ammeter, but it is way to expensive for most people.
4) A clamp meter, they are usual not good at low current and precision is not as good as the above solution.

1) is the worst in burden voltage and 4) is the best (In some situation 3) can be slightly better).
Except 3) all can be found at hobby friendly prices.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

HKJ
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gauss163 wrote:
Those new to current clamp DMMs should beware that the majority of them handle only AC current in the clamp (DC current – if handled – must be measured through the leads – same as for a non-clamp DMM). Further complicating matters is that often specs do not make it clear that the clamp handles only AC current, so you may need to do a little research to determine exactly which type of clamp it is.

It is not that long time ago (Sometime last year) there was some talk and also a group buy of a cheap UNI-T clamp meter (UT210E) that could measure DC on the clamp. With carefully zeroing it could work down to a few mA. Big Clive is using the same clamp meter in his recent videos.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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