Has anyone modded a H1-A boost driver?

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JasonWW
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JasonWW wrote:
Mine should be arriving soon.

Well that was 4 weeks ago and they just tell me it shipped out today, 5 weeks later. Facepalm

Apparently they sold out, but didn’t tell anyone.

My Convoy L6 thread with Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil ramping firmware, lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/54477

Jensen567
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I added an R100 resistor on top of the existing R025 on the H1-A, current is up to 3.5A at the emitter.

This is up from the stock 2.75A at the emitter I measured before the mod.

Testing was done using an electronic load set to 6.2V constant voltage mode for the emitter, and a bench supply set to 3.7V for the battery.

I forgot to look at efficiency before the mod, but it isn’t great after at about 70%. This is with fairly long test leads though. I wouldn’t push it any further than this personally, the inductor gets hot fast, and it was pulling almost 9A from the bench supply.

djozz
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Nice info, Jensen. Thanks!

Lowtech
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JasonWW wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
Mine should be arriving soon.

Well that was 4 weeks ago and they just tell me it shipped out today, 5 weeks later. Facepalm

Apparently they sold out, but didn’t tell anyone.

Been there. Not a word or info about not having any.

Barkuti
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Jensen567, I'd like to take a good look at more rigorous testing conditions. Even with good high discharge cells like the LiitoKala 26650-50A, input voltage at the driver would be below 3.7V pretty soon: with about ⅓ of the capacity left, Vbatt barely is above 3.3V with a 10A load. Source: 

 

 

Those efficiency figures seem pretty bad. 

 

Cheers Party

Copper is mine, copper divine!

«You may be taught and think for shame to be good but, in fact, a wise master said to me you wouldn't enter the heavens alive before going through your last bit of it.»

         

Jensen567
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I can run more tests when I get a chance, this was mostly just to test the resistor change, and emitter numbers are accurate as they are regulated.

There were many input losses, with 3 ft 16AWG to each lead, the positive was an alligator clip on the stock spring (close to base), negative was an alligator clip held on the edge of the driver with my hand. So high connection losses. I will tack wires on for the next test. Also need to do the H2-C.

JasonWW
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Barkuti wrote:

Jensen567, I’d like to take a good look at more rigorous testing conditions. Even with good high discharge cells like the LiitoKala 26650-50A, input voltage at the driver would be below 3.7V pretty soon: with about ⅓ of the capacity left, Vbatt barely is above 3.3V with a 10A load. Source: 


 



 


Those efficiency figures seem pretty bad. 


 


Cheers Party


Keep in mind that even when the battery voltage is low, the output at the led is just like a fresh battery compared to a FET or CC driver where the light dims as the battery voltage goes down.

But yeah, 70% is kind of low in general. It’s probably like Jensen567 mentioned. With better connectors and shorter wires, efficiency will probably go up.

My Convoy L6 thread with Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil ramping firmware, lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/54477

EasyB
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I am a beginner when it comes to buck and boost drivers, but I think the inductor causes a lot of the losses. The small ones that come on these drivers can have almost 0.1 ohms resistance, so with almost 10A that is a lot of heat.

When my H2-C driver arrives I’m going to experiment with replacing the inductor with a bigger, lower resistance one.

Barkuti
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I have to agree with EasyB. This is how a driver with a properly sized inductor (and an oversized schottky diode) looks:

 

 

Cheers 

Copper is mine, copper divine!

«You may be taught and think for shame to be good but, in fact, a wise master said to me you wouldn't enter the heavens alive before going through your last bit of it.»

         

JasonWW
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Ha ha, I guess you can use one 26350 battery to make room for all that. Lol

My Convoy L6 thread with Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil ramping firmware, lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/54477

Jensen567
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The inductor is definitely going to be the limiting factor, it basically always will be in a compact buck or boost driver. That said, these little drivers aren’t too bad!

Ran some new tests on stock and modded drivers with 4 wire input and output to read voltages at the board this time. My temp numbers aren’t perfect, just a thermocouple held onto the inductor, but decent ballpark. There is also no heatsinking at all, driver is just in open air, no fans.

H1-A Stock:

Input 3.58V 1.72A outputs 6.26V 0.94A, 95% efficient

Input 3.27V 6.11A outputs 6.37V 2.82A, 90% efficient, temps hit a bit over 50C after 2 mins.

H1-A with R100 added:

Input 3.54V 2.19A outputs 6.30V 1.18A, 96% efficient

Input 3.07V 8.71A outputs 6.48V 3.52A, 85% efficient, temps hit around 75C after 2 mins.

Based on the efficiency drop I think the inductor is saturated, this is probably as high as we want to push with a simple resistor mod. Overall I am very pleased with this H1-A.

H2-C results below are not accurate due to an unknown malfunction of the driver! New results in later post.

H2-C is not as good, or resistor moddable. Comes stock with 2 R100 stacked, I added a third R100.

H2-C stock:

Input 3.51V 2.62A outputs 12.45V 0.65A, 88% efficient

Input 3.29V 5.45A outputs 12.49V 1.10A, 77% efficiency, temps hit around 65C after 2 minutes.

H2-C with R100 added:

Input 3.39V 4.14A outputs 12.46V 0.99A, 88% efficient

High mode showed no change, output current actually went down a tiny bit to 1.06A. Tried lowering the output voltage, still no change. It appears a bit over 1A is the limit without more extensive modifications. I went back to stock resistors so the lower modes stay lower, as they did all move up despite no change on high.

Bigger inductor would probably help, and is certainly possible on both drivers, as the SMD inductor is on top of other components, connected with a large solder blob and jumper wire to the board, it does not sit on the board at all.

The_Driver
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Thanks for your extensive measurements!

Jensen567 wrote:
Input 3.54V 2.19A outputs 6.30V 1.18A, 96% efficient

Now combine this with an XHP-70.2 to get an extremely efficient flashlight!

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Well, I was going to make a comment with regards to the huge losses entailed with 6ft of AWG16 leads carrying 9A of current and the alligator clip contacts, but thanks for taking the time to read the voltage at the boards' input terminals, the figures make sense now. 

Oh! If you need for these drivers to handle more power, upgrading the inductor is doable. On my above example, I literally milled the onboard one with my multitool, as desoldering those heat-sinking chunks of copper among the remaining board components can be tricky.

 

Jensen567, now that you're in, could you please test the maximum output voltage for the H1-A?

I ask this because with the newer configurable triple 3535 boards at Kaidomain, an in series configuration may be feed with a suitable boost driver.

 

Cheers Party

Copper is mine, copper divine!

«You may be taught and think for shame to be good but, in fact, a wise master said to me you wouldn't enter the heavens alive before going through your last bit of it.»

         

Jensen567
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OCV on the H1-A output was a bit over 7.3V, so not really suitable for 3S emitters unfortunately.

The H2-C would probably work with a triple emitter setup, I will try this afternoon to see if the output looks better at around 9V than it did at 12V, because it was fairly disappointing at 12V.

Yes, 6ft of 16AWG on the input, and 6ft 16AWG on the output with alligator clips certainly leads to very high losses. Numbers definitely make much more sense and look better when taken at the board. I went from, eh, it’s OK, to wow, for 12 bucks this thing kicks butt.

Jensen567
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Or I will try this morning. H2-C does NOT like going below about 11V on the output, anything less and we lose UI and only have high. It did push a bit over 2A into 9V though. I’m wondering if there are bias resistors for the DC-DC chip somewhere that could be changed to allow the H2-C to work for 3S emitter setups. Would be nice. OCV on the H2-C is around 15.9V.

EasyB
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Jensen567, thanks for the measurements. That is a bit disappointing about the max current of the H2-C. I notice in the specs it has a stepdown at 60s. Did you measure the output current before or after 60s? I’m asking because user Tjhosan resistor modded one with a R120 and got just over 2A to the emitter.
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1117559#comment-1117559

Jensen567
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Before 60s. Not sure why mine did not respond to the resistor mod. It did increase output in lower modes, but on high it did not want to go higher than 1.10A. Did not even hit the stated 1.5A output. I will do some looking and try again sometime, probably won’t get a chance until Monday though.

cbrake10
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Does anybody know what boost IC is used on either of the drivers?

-Clark

Jensen567
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According to RMM here it looks like at least the H1-A uses TI TPS61088. I’m guessing they are both the same but I haven’t taken the inductor off to check yet.

http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1114729#comment-1114729

Also, it seems like after trying to run the output at 9V my H2-C has come back to life. I got close to the rated 1.5A output on stock resistors when I just hooked it up. Will re-test that and update.

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Thanks Jensen567

from that datasheet:

Quote:
The output voltage is set by an external resistor divider (R1, R2 in the Typical Application Circuit). Typically, a
minimum current of 20 μA flowing through the feedback divider gives good accuracy and noise covering. A
standard 56-kΩ resistor is typically selected for low-side resister R2.
Where R1 = (Vout – Vref) * R2 / Vref

-Clark

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OK, I edited my above post to note that the H2-C results are inaccurate. I still don’t know exactly what was going on, but after forcing the output to 9V it works normally again. New results!

H2-C Stock

Input 3.58V 2.48A outputs 12.03V 0.66A, efficiency 89%

Input 3.43V 5.60A outputs 12.06V 1.39A, efficiency 87%

H2-C with 2x R100 replaced with 2x R075

Input 3.52V 3.44A outputs 12.04V 0.90A, efficiency 89%

Input 3.24V 8.72A outputs 12.09V 1.90A, efficiency 81%

Input 7.01V 3.60A outputs 12.09V 1.93A, efficiency 92%

I now like both of these drivers quite a bit! I did not have time to take temps this test, and the readings are taken before the step down. Step down is also gradual over 30 seconds or so, not abrupt. It Also appears like using a 2S input with H2-C will result in a much better efficiency (not surprising at all). It still doesn’t like driving below 10.5V or so without losing UI.

Just to note, I used 2x R075 resistors as opposed to 3x R100 resistors because with the R100 setup my bench supply hit the 10.1A current limit, so I wanted to bring it below that.

With 1S input on H2-C I think around 2A output is about the best we can do, with 2S input I think we can push it further as the driver did not heat up nearly as fast.

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Is the H1-A able to output 12V with 6V input? Or will that just fry it? I want a XHP35 in my L2, but I haven’t found a suitable driver yet (takes a 20mm)

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I don’t think it would fry it, but it wouldn’t output 13V either. In post 47 of this thread EasyB linked to Tjhosan who got the H2-C to fit into an L2, might be worth asking him.

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doubleone44 wrote:
Is the H1-A able to output 12V with 6V input? Or will that just fry it? I want a XHP35 in my L2, but I haven’t found a suitable driver yet (takes a 20mm)

According to the datasheet the boost converter certainly has the ability. Whether or not the other components are up to it is the question. See my previous post concerning setting output voltage as well as the Datasheet

-Clark

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The H1-A, from the datasheet, can only go up to 12.6V, so not really suitable for a 4S emitter like the XHP35.

It could, however, fully drive in series triples (3S) providing up to 2.5A of output without much trouble, but seems to be MCU-gimped to ≈7.3V. Crap.

 

Cheers Party

Copper is mine, copper divine!

«You may be taught and think for shame to be good but, in fact, a wise master said to me you wouldn't enter the heavens alive before going through your last bit of it.»

         

Jensen567
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Just a note on LVP of these boards.

H1-A maintains regulated output until input voltage hits 3V, at which point it begins to taper the output down as to maintain the 3V on the input, it cuts off somewhere below 100mA on the output, once input can no longer hold 3V.

H2-C in 1S mode begins its taper around 3.2V, but does allow the input to keep dropping until it hits 3V then it will cut off, output is somewhere below 50mA by this point.

H2-C in 2S mode is similar, but it will begin tapering around 5.8V, slowly allowing the input to drop until 5.7V where it cuts off.

Jensen567
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More info! Pulled the inductors off today. They didn’t scratch off the chip numbers but rather covered them in some sort of epoxy, with careful scraping I was able to find that H1-A is indeed a TPS61088 chip (S61088A is visible marking).

H2-C is a different chip which is marked I believe MPFE 3429 839 on its 3 lines. The “P” could be a “B” and the “F” could be an “E”, very hard to tell with the epoxy residue. My searches haven’t found the chip, but it must be some sort of external switch boost controller. The switch used is an AON6718 MOSFET.

Both drivers use a Microchip PIC 12F683 MCU.

Also, more good news on H1-A. It is NOT MCU capped in its output voltage. Using the TI datasheet I swapped the high side FB resistor from a stock 47K and successfully boosted the voltage higher. A 62K resistor yielded 9.05V and a 75K resistor yielded 10.72V, so somewhere around 70K will be perfect for a 3S emitter setup. UI still fully in tact, but the sense resistor will need to be changed to limit the input to 10A or less to avoid burning out the switches inside the TPS61088 IC, as they are only rated for 10A.

I did not try, but I believe if a zener is placed across the MCU power rail 2S battery input should be possible for the 3S emitter setup, but LVP likely won’t function properly.

The resistor that needs to be changed to modify the output voltage can actually be seen in the picture on Post #2 of this thread.

http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1112777#comment-1112777

If you look at the top photo, on the left side of the board you see 4 resistors, the R025 sense resistor, an upside down 123 (12K) resistor, and 2 473 (47K) resistors. The one to change is the 473 located next to and in the same orientation as the 123 resistor.

I ordered one of the new FX70 boost drivers from KD today as well, so that will be next to be tested once it arrives.

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Good work. I ordered an H1-A about a month ago, finally shipped.

May as well repost the pictures here

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Still pretty much in the dark on how these work so please be nice about correcting my misunderstandings.
If the inductor is saturated you can:
A) increase inductance
B) increase switching frequency
Either of which will increase circuit resistance/lower efficiency
A larger inductor(thicker wire)of the same inductance will have lower resistance and higher current rating
The switch ic has a min/max frequency sometimes controlled by an external capacitor
One needs to verify that the main diode and sense resistor(s) can handle an increase in current and/or voltage and also that input and output capacitors are rated for an increase in input/output voltage
Switching regulators have voltage spikes on the output that can fry emitters below maximum led current.
Power handling of sense resistors is indicated by size but caps are frequently unmarked and more often than not of lowest quality needed for operation within spec. Better quality parts can sometimes make the difference between a driver working/not working.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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Jensen567 wrote:

Also, more good news on H1-A. It is NOT MCU capped in its output voltage. Using the TI datasheet I swapped the high side FB resistor from a stock 47K and successfully boosted the voltage higher. A 62K resistor yielded 9.05V and a 75K resistor yielded 10.72V, so somewhere around 70K will be perfect for a 3S emitter setup. UI still fully in tact, but the sense resistor will need to be changed to limit the input to 10A or less to avoid burning out the switches inside the TPS61088 IC, as they are only rated for 10A.

I ordered one of the new FX70 boost drivers from KD today as well, so that will be next to be tested once it arrives.

Thanks a lot for the research on maximum open circuit voltage for the H1-A. Opens up the possibility for nice fully regulated triples, PWM free too. Output power is about right, I'd reduce the output current to ≈2.5A, which I believe is more than enough for compact single cell flashlights with 3S emitters. Definitively a winner.

Did you meant a KX70?

 

Cheers 

Copper is mine, copper divine!

«You may be taught and think for shame to be good but, in fact, a wise master said to me you wouldn't enter the heavens alive before going through your last bit of it.»

         

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