Talk about future projects and donation topic

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thijsco19
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Sounds all great.

Though I think it’s wise to slow down a bit with those big and more expensive projects.

Let the GT, Q8 and the fw3a finish and maybe go with something small. Like that bigger blf348. That shouldn’t make most people broke.
In the meantime we can work on the q16, that would be another big and probably expensive light. But it will take some time to develop.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with filling this thread with everyone’s wishes. Big Smile

The Miller
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Well idk if I agree with you here Thijsco19 Wink
If all people who have bought a TN42 or one of the other big throwers had gone for the GT, they all would have spend less and gotten more throw.
Same with the Q16, yes it will not be cheap but having lots of lumens for a long time should make it a much more awesome light then almost all of the 10K+ lumens lights out there for almost all of those have a short high output burst and are expensive.

But in light of the wish for small I ordered that tiny 16340 light with build in charging.

The Q4 and Q2 shouldn’t also be expensive.

If Thorfire delivers and wants to do the Q series we could do different lights with faster working manufacturers like Lumintop, like the not really expensive FW3A can be followed by a copper or brass version (costing more) and/or a really tiny 16340 light TK is talking about.

The Miller
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The AA version of the BLF 348 is not for us/me to start, with several runs it is the most successful BLF special IMHO and done by the and Gearbest. It is logical they do the AA version too.

JasonWW
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mapache wrote:
I would like to see a BLF automotive light bar, not that I could actually afford one.

Some of the rough ideas that I have had include-

  • It being around 300mm-400mm in length, small enough so that it can still fit small euro cars and perhaps with a modular mount system so that 3 or 4 could be easily joined together for those with trucks.

  • A driver designed with a high and medium setting operated from a single On/Off/On switch, not only for the obvious reason of not always needing full brightness but also so that members with small euro cars could still use it without needing an alternator upgrade. A low voltage cut-off to protect from a dead car battery and perhaps thermal management so that if the bar is left on while the car is stationary it won’t overheat.
  • Tint selection would be chosen for reducing eye fatigue and enhancing road hazard visibility rather than the highest output. TIR lenses could be used rather than reflectors to reduce tint shift, and if common sized TIRs were used the end user could mix and match if they weren’t happy with the beam pattern and wanted to increase flood or throw.
  • And for the really tricky part, keeping it as budget as possible.

I don’t think it’s possible to do a good light bar cheaply. Are you familiar with Richard at Mountain Electronics? He has created his own line of vehicle mounted light bars. They are some of the brightest out there and have multiple brightness levels that can be controlled from inside. http://www.mtnlitebar.com/

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The Miller
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Yes MTN Electronics has lightbars covered and they are not flashlights.

mapache
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But this is Budget Light Forum, not Budget Flashlight Forum (just ignore the sub-title as it ruins my joke Silly ) so as long as it emits light it is suitable for discussion Wink

I had briefly read about the MTN bars but never got past the price. They do look really good, but a little more “high-end” than what I was imagining. Based on the chart on the MTN website what I had in mind would fit somewhere between the Rigid and the MTN bars bit with direct from China pricing.

I’ll have to move this into the d.i.y. basket for when I am a bit better.

The Miller
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Well you know I kind of feel bad about the Q8 stealing the M6 thunder especially for RMM who must have seen his special versions of it being rendered a bit obsolete.
USA is the land of the big pickup trucks where light bars are cool and useful on, I would not even want to pursue light bars going below his price, he put a lot of work in them, they are honest American made high quality products. If people think they are too expensive or that they can do better, there are a few who made them so go ahead Wink
I will follow a project like it closely and with interest but have no need for a light bar on our car Big Smile
If people do start a BLF special and the drivers/electronics developed for it can benefit BLF and are designed Open Source the fund here can be used to order parts for prototypes, it is not exclusive for our/my projects of course but for BLF as a whole.

As Thijsco said, we can only do so much Wink

It would be awesome if another team stepped up and do lights from scratch with no principal commercial interest, just for the kicks and pushing things further.

The cool thing is of course that lots of things already are going on or have been done in the past:
Bugsy36 with Banggood on the A6
the with several runs of the BLF348 by Singfire/Gearbest
ReManG, with Banggood on the sweet A01.
J-Dub74 working closely with Simon/Convoy, relaying BLF wishes to be poured into new lights and versions of lights.
Robo819 working closely with Mactoch, awesome lights!

Lucky for us in these cases the commercial parties do 100% of the prototyping so there are no costs for individual BLFers on parts.
When we started with the Q8 we stood on the shoulders of the people mentioned above. They have established BLF as trustworthy group to deal with. They proved it can be done.

Interesting is of course a key figure in many BLF lights is Neal.
A6, A01, EE X6, Kronos X5/X6 (As/Cu and ALU), Q8, GT, FW3A, all have Neal involved.

Then of course there are the “commercial parties” that still breathe BLF, RMM, Texas Lumens, Reylight, VestureOfBlood to name a few. It is so nice to see so much going on.

And let’s not forget people advising and doing work directly with manufacturers. Yeah it is clear BLF has a larger impact on the flashlight world then just being a bunch of consumers.
There areany smart people with great ideas, and if I being a newbie can kick off something like the Q8 sure much more can be done Wink

mapache
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Haha, considering I haven’t driven long distance at night in years I don’t have a need either. I am just dreaming of the good old days.

I hadn’t considered the possibility of a BLF light bar impacting on MTN, more of a rhetorical thought but I wonder how much impact it would really have? I don’t think MTN light bars are too expensive for what they are and as far as I am aware they are close to the best, if not the best product on the market, but they have a price tag to reflect that. IF, and that is a big if, I were to ever attempt to get a BLF light bar going it would be something to bridge the gap between blinted Chinese light bars and the MTN and still outperform something like a Rigid. However this is really a discussion for another thread and another time.

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mapache wrote:
…bridge the gap between blinted Chinese light bars and the MTN and still outperform something like a Rigid.

Actually, I think that would be a good place to target. It wouldn’t really step on Richard’s toes, but would show how underperforming and overpriced those others are. There have actually been a couple guys working on Light Bars within the past year or so here, but neither of those has updated recently.

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cabfrank
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Lots of things going on, and lots of things to start saving money for. My one way premature thought is that I hope anything new and small on the horizon can use 18350 cells, since they are a lot better than 16340, as far as I know, for now.
As far as recoil throwers, yeah, harder driven, newer leds make heat an issue. I had a lot of fun with one of those in the past, but maybe we’ve evolved past them.

The Miller
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I have been staring at my little Olight and On The Road i3.
With a short S2+ tube for 18350 besides it
Toykeeper please chime in.
Yes a 16340 is smaller but is the shorty D4 really big?
The Olight design is kind of really good. It is just the clip that can be better.
This is not like poor SRKs or lights that step down fast, there was and is so much to gain there.
Making those projects scream at me to be made.
If one manufacturer creates ramping on a small Olight clone it becomes very hard to see why a lot of time should be put into making a BLF special very small light.
Please elaborate on it, what you want or have in your mind?

Jerommel
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cabfrank wrote:
Lots of things going on, and lots of things to start saving money for. My one way premature thought is that I hope anything new and small on the horizon can use 18350 cells, since they are a lot better than 16340, as far as I know, for now.
As far as recoil throwers, yeah, harder driven, newer leds make heat an issue. I had a lot of fun with one of those in the past, but maybe we’ve evolved past them.
I doubt that.
In my most recent idea about it the LED will have 3 (looks awesome) or 4 (easier to make) copper “spokes” from the LED to the body, made from 3 or 4 mm wide 30 mm high copper bars in front of the lens.
The lens will then have to have a hole in the middle for the LED.
But the surface area of the spokes will probably be a sufficient heat radiator / convector by itself.
But they will be fixed on the aluminum body too, so i don’t see a problem with heat.

But i noticed there’s only 2 months left for the scratch build contest…
Still have to order stuff for a recoil build, which will take a month to arrive…
And i fear pounding a 5” copper disc into a good parabolic bowl will be next to impossible Facepalm , but i can silver plate it when it’s good enough..

Here are some pics to illustrate why theoretically a recoil is better than a regular reflector:

It has very little spill and very little ‘corona’ because the focal distances are similar at each angle.

2Q19

cabfrank
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Cool! I hope it works.

The Miller
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Yeah the size of your plan in the recoil thread should give ample material to remove heat.
Really hope you can build one!

cabfrank
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And then we can use it as a prototype for a smaller model for a future BLF group buy. What do you think? Big Smile

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why smaller? I think the appeal is extreme no spill throw.I bet that if people see the pencil beam reach far over the ocean and beach (Jerommel lives close to the sea) it could kick start the topic and get a interest list going, showing there is a demand for it.
Newer people like myself have not seen a good recoil thrower ever, we need a little show and tell to convince us reflectors, lenses can have an older way (recoil) alive as extra option Smile

cabfrank
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I agree, but smaller just because I still like pocketable throwers.

Agro
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I am also not tempted by huge throwers…

Jerommel
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Unfortunately small lights don’t throw as good as big lights.
Or rather, the optic has to be large in relation to the LED if you want serious throw.
None the less, a Brinyte (Brynite?) B158 with a dedomed XPG2 is not that big, but it sure throws very well. Smile
But it only uses half of the emitted light, maybe even less than that.
Same goes for the Supwildfire reflector light. (in a quick test i found out the Brynyte (Brinite?) uses what would be the spill of a Supwildfire, the Supwildfire uses what the Brünüte does not use, roughly)
A recoil light collimates practically all of it.
But okay, 5 inches diameter is very large.
4 inches would be okay, maybe 3 inches, which is still roughly 75mm, which is still not small..

2Q19

Agro
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Jerommel wrote:
Unfortunately small lights don’t throw as good as big lights.
Or rather, the optic has to be large in relation to the LED if you want serious throw.

The former is true. The latter – I have some basic theory, but little practical verification. In theory what you say is untrue.
Throw = (optic area) * (surface intensity) * (optic efficiency).
In a simplified model, with a N-emitter light you can have N * (optic area / N) * (surface intensity) * (optic efficiency). Turns out the same as single emitter.
Really, you can’t fit a circular area with a number of smaller circles, you either lose some area or use siamese optics and lose efficiency. So single-emitter large-optic light will indeed throw better than a multi-emitter one with the same frontal area. But the difference is not big and you can definitely get serious throw with multi-emitters. Also, note that multi-emitters will tend to be shorter and may end up with better throw / volume. At least, that’s the theory.
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This is correct, however “output” is called surface intensity and measured by cd/mm^2.
The actual lumen output is not directly relevant.

Agro
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Thanks for the correction.

Agro
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Today I got a thought about a moderate light that I’d love to have.
Not big, not small.
Not a flooder, not a thrower.
Not high output, but not a weakling either.
Not the runtime king, but nevertheless very good.
In my mind I call it a Jax of all trades because of one inspiration.

Details:

  • 3*18650
  • head just slightly larger than body
  • XHP35 HI, driven hard
  • efficient driver
  • compact package
  • side switch
  • zoomie!

Could be significantly cheaper with linear driver and SST-40, but efficiency would suffer a lot.

JasonWW
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Agro wrote:
Today I got a thought about a moderate light that I’d love to have.
Not big, not small.
Not a flooder, not a thrower.
Not high output, but not a weakling either.
Not the runtime king, but nevertheless very good.
In my mind I call it a Jax of all trades because of one inspiration.

Details:

  • 3*18650
  • head just slightly larger than body
  • XHP35 HI, driven hard
  • efficient driver
  • compact package
  • side switch
  • zoomie!

Could be significantly cheaper with linear driver and SST-40, but efficiency would suffer a lot.


I don’t think you can run the xhp35 on 3 cells. It needs 4 cells.

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Agro
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JasonWW wrote:
Agro wrote:
Today I got a thought about a moderate light that I’d love to have.
Not big, not small.
Not a flooder, not a thrower.
Not high output, but not a weakling either.
Not the runtime king, but nevertheless very good.
In my mind I call it a Jax of all trades because of one inspiration.

Details:

  • 3*18650
  • head just slightly larger than body
  • XHP35 HI, driven hard
  • efficient driver
  • compact package
  • side switch
  • zoomie!

Could be significantly cheaper with linear driver and SST-40, but efficiency would suffer a lot.


I don’t think you can run the xhp35 on 3 cells. It needs 4 cells.

3s linear or boost won’t work at all.
4s buck runs out of regulation at high currents, though when it does work efficiency is great.
4s linear would work, but be grossly inefficient.
For 3 cells, 1s boost and 3s buck-boost are the only sensible options that I see.
The Miller
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A tube for 3*18650 sure holds nice (lol just grabbed the Courui walking out which has this)

The Miller
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Stupid question maybe but
If we use the exact same driver as the Q8 to power 1 led (XPLHi or SST40) would that be fed 20A and blow?

If we add a bank of 7135 chips, say 8 and a zener pad
Would this make the driver ideal for regulated output for a single LED and easy to adapt to allow 2 series input and a 6V emitter?

Yeah I am thinking that BLF ST and double length tube.
With the Q8, 2 heads, 3 tubes
Dang what a set that would be.

Enderman
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Yeah it would get 20A and blow everything except a luminus LED like the CBT90 or whatnot.
If you want to add 7315 chips for a 6v emitter you may as well use this driver which is already available:
http://www.international.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/prod...

The Miller
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No sorry that answer is cool in the modding thread (I wanted to post it there but it is not about Q8 modding, it is about future BLF ST Wink ) but a MTNE driver is not an option. We have a Q8 driver, how to adapt it so :
1 It will drive a single 3V LED like aXPLhi or SST40 with a little more regulation then FET+1 (FET + 1 + 10 perhaps)
2 can be adapted to drive a 6V led like XHP50.2 (just a zener pad?)

JasonWW
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The Miller wrote:
Stupid question maybe but
If we use the exact same driver as the Q8 to power 1 led (XPLHi or SST40) would that be fed 20A and blow?

I’m no driver designer, but I don’t see how one Fet driver, the Q8, would function differently than another fet driver, blf A6. At full power it’s basically direct drive.

You do have less voltage sag with 4 18650 compared to a single 18650, but I don’t think it would make a huge difference.

I think the internal resistance of the led is what controls the current (in direct drive). When you run 2 emitters in parallel, or 3 or 4, etc… your just reducing the resistance which allows for more current to flow.

So an xpl might see 5-6 amps, 4 xpl in parallel might see 20 amps, but only if given enough battery power.

If you look at a quad parallel xpl light with single 18650 you don’t get 20 amps due to battery limitation and voltage sag. I think you get around 12 amps?

I’m sure there are many people here that can tell you exactly what would happen Miller.

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