Convoy S2+ Triple

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Mr.Scott
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Convoy S2+ Triple

This is going to be my first build. I’ve decided I want to try a Convoy S2+ triple. But there is still a lot more to figure out. I need your input.

 

Fixed parameters:

Host:
Convoy S2+ (Powder coated by 3Tronics)
Batteries:
1x 18650
Pill:
Hoop’s copper S2+ heatsink w/ driver retaining ring
Driver:
17mm
MCPCB:
20mm

 

Note for other NOOBs like me: I was initially confused because some people talk about the S2+ taking a 16mm MCPCB, but others talk about using a 20mm MCPCB in their S2+ builds. Turns out both are correct – the pill from Convoy has an opening for the MCPCB that is 16.3mm but when using a different pill like Hoop's, or using the stock pill + spacer, you have a 20mm surface.

 

 

I now need to figure out -

  • Emitters
  • MCPCB
  • Driver
    • Direct vs. linear
    • Driver software
    • Driver configuration (for some drivers)
  • Optics
  • Anything else?

I have been doing my homework - some of the posts I've read include:

7/2014 - LSX – Convoy S2 Triple Nichia 219B Build - Complete!!

10/2015 - fatboy - Help me choose components for a convoy S2+ triple

3/2015 - keltex78 - Convenient budget spacer for Triple EDC found... @ Lowe's!

1/2017 - Jerommel - S2+ KD 219C triple build and questions

12/2016 - sp5it - S2+ host build question

 

 

Emitters

  • Nichia 219B, 219C, or Cree XP-L HI

Driver

Driver software

  • Bistro
  • Narsil
  • Other

MCPCB

  • Noctigon 3XP / 3UP Triple Copper MCPCB
    • Diameter: 20mm, Thickness: 1.75mm,
    • Copper MCPCB for XP series (XP-E2, XP-G2, XP-L), XT-E, 3535, Nichia 219B, Nichia 219C
    • Direct thermal path
    • User configurable LED connection, parallel or series
  • KDLIGHT Triple 3TP-20
    • Diameter: 20mm, Thickness: 1.0mm
    • XP Series / Nichia 219 Series / 3535 LEDs
    • Direct thermal path

Optics

  • 10507 Carclo Lens - 3-UP Narrow Spot Optic
    (Diameter: 20mm, Height: 6mm)
  • 10508 Carclo Lens - 3-UP Frosted Medium Spot Optic
  • 10509 Carclo Lens - 3-UP Frosted Wide Spot Optic
  • 10510 Carclo Lens - 3-UP Elliptical
  • 10511 Carclo Lens - 3-UP Frosted Narrow Spot Optic

 

Anything else?

 

I am leaning towards Kaidomain’s “Triple Nichia 219C Neutral White 4000K CRI92 LED Emitter with 20mm x 1mm DTP Copper MCPCB (Parallel) w/ optics” because that ticks off the emitters, MCPCB, and Optics for a very nice price. But ignoring the price, I am also looking for arguments for other options instead of the KD Triple Nichia package.

 

One major question I have is which driver to use? Are there ones that are better for a Nichia  triple?  Why better?  Because they drive more current? Because they shutdown and prevent accidents? Because the software they support? Because you like the color of the board?

This is a learning exercise for me. Any suggestions or comments are welcome. Thanks!

Edited by: Mr.Scott on 04/23/2017 - 16:44
Mr.Scott
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Lexel
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AR coated lens to protect the TIR from scratches, maybe as well use those mobile screen UV hadened glue to glue the lens on the TIR

a thicker Noctigon triple star?
http://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-3xp-advanced-triple-led-copper-mcpcb-2-...

solder the pill, spacer and star together for way better heat flow than thermal paste

for driver I would choose linear plus DD like TA one has, as in linear with the 7135 the LED is more efficient

BTW atm only the Attiny limit the max. number of boards that I can assemble 2 more possible with Infineon FET but no MCU

Yokiamy
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I will build my first triple soon (hopefully)
Bought a copper spacer, a blue host, bistro driver and the triple 5000k 219c 83cri on noctigon from intl (which is still on its way), since the 4000k single 219c 92CRI (from KD) in an S2+ is a littlebit to yellow for me (which is really superb outdoors in the dark)
But during daytime, indoors it annoys me

Thijsco19 wrote:

a regular symptom of flasholism Big Smile

“Flasholism is the most severe form of flashlight use and involves the inability to manage your flashlight use habits. It is also commonly referred to as flashlight use disorder. Flashlight use disorder is organized into three categories: mild, moderate and severe. Each category has various symptoms and can cause harmful side effects. If left untreated, any type of flashlight use can spiral out of control.”

Ronin42
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an excellent light, I have two.

btw this light sends the heat right to your hand. in small does that means liquid cooling, in large doses it means it is noticably uncomfortable to hold for extended run times.

dont get me wrong this is a great hiking / actual use light (just not at blf record setting amperages).

I hope my point is clear.

imho the wide is too wide (and this is from a flood fanatic ) it just diffuses the light to much. my fave is medium (but like i said i like flood and this is too tiny a head to pretend its a thrower.

nichia or 4 c/d tint bins are working for me.

(“It’s good that most people can’t remember their previous lives. Otherwise
things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo)

Jerommel
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I found the KD triple quite warm tinted for 4000K.

Lexel wrote:
maybe as well use those mobile screen UV hadened glue to glue the lens on the TIR
Good idea, because it will reduce losses from the transition from TIR to air to glass, replacing the air with glue.
I recently tested this with Kafuter (from Fasttech) between 2 pieces of window glass.

Q

Mr.Scott
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Lexel wrote:
AR coated lens to protect the TIR from scratches, maybe as well use those mobile screen UV hadened glue to glue the lens on the TIR

Something to consider. But where I’ve looked, it seems the AR coated lens is about the same price as the optics.I may buy multiple optics just so I can play with different ones.

Lexel wrote:
a thicker Noctigon triple star?
http://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-3xp-advanced-triple-led-copper-mcpcb-2-...

solder the pill, spacer and star together for way better heat flow than thermal paste

I understand the more copper the better, but if I’m soldering the MCPCB to the pill does it really matter if it is the 1.75mm thick Noctigon or the 1.0mm thick KDLIGHT.

Lexel wrote:
for driver I would choose linear plus DD like TA one has, as in linear with the 7135 the LED is more efficient

Yea, I understand some guy is making the TA drivers. Wink I’m very interested.
Mr.Scott
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Ronin42 wrote:
an excellent light, I have two.

btw this light sends the heat right to your hand. in small does that means liquid cooling, in large doses it means it is noticably uncomfortable to hold for extended run times.

dont get me wrong this is a great hiking / actual use light (just not at blf record setting amperages).

I hope my point is clear.

imho the wide is too wide (and this is from a flood fanatic ) it just diffuses the light to much. my fave is medium (but like i said i like flood and this is too tiny a head to pretend its a thrower.

nichia or 4 c/d tint bins are working for me.

Since this is my first triple, I’ll likely buy one of each optic just to play with the narrow/medium/wide versions.

Thanks for the heat warning. I understand and appreciate.

Mr.Scott
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Jerommel wrote:
I found the KD triple quite warm tinted for 4000K.

Thanks Jerommel. I see KD has both a 4000k and 5700k triple. I may switch to the 5700k.

Yokiamy
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Mr Scott

Mention that the KD 5700K variant is a 219B, while the 219C has a lower Vf, which gives you more lumens at a low current, thus less heat.
Also mention that the Carclo optics wont fit directly in the KD DTP’s (which are only 1mm, and somewhere on BLF i read that sometimes the MCPCB’s aren’t 100% flat)

The heat warning depends on the current you want to drive the LED’s with
I bought the Bistro driver with 8×7135 which should give approx 2800mA, with the LEDS in parallel that is 930mA per LED. Since the 219C’s have a low Vf they are driven quite efficient and the heat should (I.M.O.) be on an acceptable level.

See TexasAce’s test here:
Nichia 219C D260 9050 90+ CRI Emitter output test by Texas_Ace

Thijsco19 wrote:

a regular symptom of flasholism Big Smile

“Flasholism is the most severe form of flashlight use and involves the inability to manage your flashlight use habits. It is also commonly referred to as flashlight use disorder. Flashlight use disorder is organized into three categories: mild, moderate and severe. Each category has various symptoms and can cause harmful side effects. If left untreated, any type of flashlight use can spiral out of control.”

Mr.Scott
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Yokiamy wrote:
Mr Scott

Mention that the KD 5700K variant is a 219B, while the 219C has a lower Vf, which gives you more lumens at a low current, thus less heat.
Also mention that the Carclo optics wont fit directly in the KD DTP’s (which are only 1mm, and somewhere on BLF i read that sometimes the MCPCB’s aren’t 100% flat)

The heat warning depends on the current you want to drive the LED’s with
I bought the Bistro driver with 8×7135 which should give approx 2800mA, with the LEDS in parallel that is 930mA per LED. Since the 219C’s have a low Vf they are driven quite efficient and the heat should (I.M.O.) be on an acceptable level.

See TexasAce’s test here:
“ Nichia 219C D260 9050 90+ CRI Emitter output test by Texas_Ace”:http://budgetlightforum.com/node/51693

Thank you for the info. I hadn’t considered the Vf difference between the two leds, and the resulting impact on heat. I have more reading to do. But at some point I have to stop reading and start doing. Fortunately with this hobby mistakes aren’t too expensive.

Yokiamy
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Finally got the last parts needed!

So i soldered the spacer to the pill and drilled a hole trough the center:

Put an equal thin layer of thermal grease on the pill, dropped in the noctigon​ and put the wires through the hole.
Shortened the already assembled 22AWG silicone wires from the MCPCB and soldered them to the new convoy driver, (which was quite a handfull since you dont have much space to work in, it is easier to work on top instead of the bottom) but i finally managed to get a beautiful perfect solder joint. (No picture, sorry)
Soldered the driver to the bottom of the pill and screwed the assembly in the head:

Result:

Very happy with it, it is quite heavy now.
the beam is very nice, as well as the tint and i love the new firmware!
The only thing which could be better is when it had the preferred 4500K Nichia 219C high CRI, which is hard to get.

Thijsco19 wrote:

a regular symptom of flasholism Big Smile

“Flasholism is the most severe form of flashlight use and involves the inability to manage your flashlight use habits. It is also commonly referred to as flashlight use disorder. Flashlight use disorder is organized into three categories: mild, moderate and severe. Each category has various symptoms and can cause harmful side effects. If left untreated, any type of flashlight use can spiral out of control.”

Mr.Scott
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Looks good Yokiamy!!

I’m still waiting on the mailman. Sad

NeutralFan
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Agreed, good job Yokiamy.

I’d rather use my flashlight around the house than turn on the lights.

Rufusbduck
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Lower Vf LEDs just shift the extra voltage to the 7135’s to be burned off, it’s not saved somehow. This is what made it hard to run the LD-1/2 with triples. It does mean that you get a bit more run time in regulation though. A buck driver would actually make use of the extra voltage and convert it to usable current lessening the draw on the battery.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

SeniorXJ
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What’s the thickness on the copper spacer?
(I’m making my own)

Yokiamy
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Thijsco19 wrote:

a regular symptom of flasholism Big Smile

“Flasholism is the most severe form of flashlight use and involves the inability to manage your flashlight use habits. It is also commonly referred to as flashlight use disorder. Flashlight use disorder is organized into three categories: mild, moderate and severe. Each category has various symptoms and can cause harmful side effects. If left untreated, any type of flashlight use can spiral out of control.”

kiriba-ru
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I would say that 6.0mm is more right thickness.

Need a vlogger for machine accessories reviews

Yokiamy
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I have never used MTN pills, always yours and they fit nicely, so i’d say listen to Kiriba’s advice

Thijsco19 wrote:

a regular symptom of flasholism Big Smile

“Flasholism is the most severe form of flashlight use and involves the inability to manage your flashlight use habits. It is also commonly referred to as flashlight use disorder. Flashlight use disorder is organized into three categories: mild, moderate and severe. Each category has various symptoms and can cause harmful side effects. If left untreated, any type of flashlight use can spiral out of control.”