FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight

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Tom Tom
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ToyKeeper wrote:
chadvone wrote:
Did someone say something about a logo?

I hope not.

At least, not on the light itself. It’s meant to be blank. No text, no logo, no flame icon in a triangle, no CE/RoHS markings, nothing.

That stuff can go on the box, in the manual, whatever… just not on the light itself.

Sorry that’s not an option. If it is to be sold in the EU, being an electronic device, and other such markets that also apply the same standards, it must at least carry a genuine CE mark somewhere. The rest of the junk, I agree. As well as the genuine and traceable paperwork and access to a technical data file to justify it, covering all aspects.

At least we haven’t had all that discussion about a logo, that seems to be an essential of BLF specials. So, no logo, no Lumintop bunny, no serial number ?

The CE mark has to be at least 5mm high. If that is not technically possible (I doubt it in this case), then there is an exemption to just do it on the paperwork.

Start here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ce-marking

There is no such thing as an RoHS logo, that’s just a made-up thing and not required. To be CE it also has to be RoHS, it is implicit. As for the “warning, may get hot” stuff, study ASTM C1055 and other such standards.

This is also part of CE product safety, and applying the warning may be required as a way around the general standards. Which I am sure this thing can easily violate.

And, as I have said on another thread, I see that some EU and other countries are taking a hard look at fraudulent paperwork, marking, design, even scanning for banned alloys at their borders. As well as questioning dubious customs declarations that under-state the actual price paid, to avoid legitimate import duties (or tariffs).

Actually, for battery powered torches, into the UK, duty should be paid at 5.7% on price+shipping+insurance, then there is 20% VAT due on top of that.

Once it’s in the UK it can be freely moved anywhere in the EU, Norway, Switzerland etc. Which is probably why Banggood have their “EU” warehouse in the UK, I guess we have the most favourable combination of overall costs. For the time being.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/classifying-electric-lamps

https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/trade-tariff/commodities/8513100...

“Import
The commodity code for importing is 8513100000.
Goods are subject to VAT standard rate.
Importing from outside the EU is subject to a third country duty of 5.70 % unless subject to other measures.
Import measures and restrictions for specific countries can be found under the import tab.”

AFAIK China is not on the list of countries who have negotiated a trade agreement for 0% import duty.

For a personal import, as long as the total cost is under £15, all this is waived. But seriously, how much of the stuff we buy does that really apply to? Certainly not this one.

https://andrewminalto.com/import-duty-vat-threshold/

Best that the distributor gets their ducks in a row before this is released. I gather that there have recently been a number of problems with Fireflies distribution, and there may be a common factor with this one.

The world has moved on quite a bit recently, and you can no longer expect to just churn out any-old stuff to consumers and ship it from far-far-away, under the radar, or with ludicrously understated value, nevermind “as a gift”.

It has to be basically correct, and documented, and go through recognised channels, whether it be a business or a personal import. Not meaning just in a jiffy-bag from state-subsidised China Post (with “free delivery” playing the international reciprocal postage system and state subsidy game, though that too will soon be ending also).

It is all being tightened up.

ToyKeeper
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DB Custom wrote:
Pwease?

Maybe after a proto4 arrives? (if one arrives)

cabfrank
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It better. I try not to be negative in these group buy threads, but it is ridiculous that you are not in the main loop, and among the first to know, about any and all developments. I know you don’t like it either, and I hope it changes immediately.

Eraursls1984
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MascaratumB wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
chadvone wrote:
Did someone say something about a logo?

I hope not.

At least, not on the light itself. It’s meant to be blank. No text, no logo, no flame icon in a triangle, no CE/RoHS markings, nothing.

That stuff can go on the box, in the manual, whatever… just not on the light itself.

+1 ! No marks on it please Flat Stare


Yes, please no logo. If one has to be on it then I think the tailcap is the best location.
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ToyKeeper wrote:
I recently found a way to eliminate a bunch of code, to make room for new things. I’m hoping to do some fancy stuff with aux LEDs in that space, but no hardware exists for it yet.

I’d love to be able to utilize them other than just as a locator when off. I’d love to be able to ramp the aux LED’s and use them with the blink modes. Maybe even some new ones. I think most of the UI is covered pretty well in terms of white light.
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Eraursls1984 wrote:
Yes, please no logo. If one has to be on it then I think the tailcap is the best location.

Agree!

I always think long and hard before I say something really stupid.

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Yes, please no logo’s. If it is sold from China you don’t neet the CE logo anyway.
It’s the responsibility of the European importer/distributer of the product, wich probably won’t be the way of selling. Don’t think this will end up in shops, just straight from China to the end user.

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Are you planning to start manufacturing? no logo is much more beautiful

mortuus
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Geuzzz wrote:
Yes, please no logo’s. If it is sold from China you don’t neet the CE logo anyway. It’s the responsibility of the European importer/distributer of the product, wich probably won’t be the way of selling. Don’t think this will end up in shops, just straight from China to the end user.

yes i dont get it either, its not like this light is gonna be sold in retailer shops etc… most will buy from banggood or where they will be sold after group buy.. logo i dont really want at all on this light..

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tatasal
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FW3A Status report:

As of this posting, only the host is ready, the driver and optics are unfinished. Beer

teacher
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cabfrank wrote:
It better. I try not to be negative in these group buy threads, but it is ridiculous that you are not in the main loop, and among the first to know, about any and all developments. I know you don’t like it either, and I hope it changes immediately.
Thumbs Up … Yes & amen, +1.

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Tom Tom
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Geuzzz wrote:
Yes, please no logo’s. If it is sold from China you don’t neet the CE logo anyway. It’s the responsibility of the European importer/distributer of the product, wich probably won’t be the way of selling. Don’t think this will end up in shops, just straight from China to the end user.

No, you have got that wrong.

No CE marking (and genuine documentation) is just asking for it to be sent back at the EU Border, if inspected.

Already happening. And a database of repeat offenders no-doubt being built, and shared, the easier to catch the next dodgy parcel.

By the way, there is no difference between business and personal importation. The rules apply to you, personally. Or as a businessperson. That’s why you will be charged duty, tax, and handling fee if found-out.

Some EU countries are very tight on this and clearly have plenty of officials looking into things. in the UK you can usually expect to get away with it.

Geuzzz
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Tom Tom wrote:
Geuzzz wrote:
Yes, please no logo’s. If it is sold from China you don’t neet the CE logo anyway. It’s the responsibility of the European importer/distributer of the product, wich probably won’t be the way of selling. Don’t think this will end up in shops, just straight from China to the end user.

No, you have got that wrong.

No CE marking (and genuine documentation) is just asking for it to be sent back at the EU Border, if inspected.

Already happening. And a database of repeat offenders no-doubt being built, and shared, the easier to catch the next dodgy parcel.

By the way, there is no difference between business and personal importation. The rules apply to you, personally. Or as a businessperson. That’s why you will be charged duty, tax, and handling fee if found-out.

Some EU countries are very tight on this and clearly have plenty of officials looking into things. in the UK you can usually expect to get away with it.

Just as I said, it’s the responsibility of the importer and I am happy to take that (very minor) risk.

Never heard of someone not receiving their emisar because there were no labels on it.

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Tom Tom wrote:
Geuzzz wrote:
Yes, please no logo’s. If it is sold from China you don’t neet the CE logo anyway. It’s the responsibility of the European importer/distributer of the product, wich probably won’t be the way of selling. Don’t think this will end up in shops, just straight from China to the end user.

No, you have got that wrong.

No CE marking (and genuine documentation) is just asking for it to be sent back at the EU Border, if inspected.

Already happening. And a database of repeat offenders no-doubt being built, and shared, the easier to catch the next dodgy parcel.

None of the thousands of Emisar lights were sent back, and still aren’t.

Tom Tom
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RobertB wrote:

None of the thousands of Emisar lights were sent back, and still aren’t.

Perhaps they have got their ducks in a row, the paperwork in order, using a reputable freight-forwarder, etc. etc. Like any reputable company. Good on them.

But you seem very confident that no Emisars have been sent back from the EU. How do you know that ?

Nevertheless I wasn’t pointing fingers at Emisar. I suspect that they behave with integrity.

But, speaking frankly, at Neal, and his blatant drop-shipping from dodgy outfits, where there seems to be a recurring pattern of problems, delays, lack of tracking, return to sender, weird shipping methods, interest list confusions, all the Fireflies stuff that is creating concern, (don’t know about his other deals, never used them, never will) and potentially this one, unless he ups his game and turns into a serious business person, rather than a chancer.

If Neal was operating a real business, holding owned stock, bought and paid for, in a warehouse ready to ship, maybe in the customer’s territory, commissioning new products, having delivery, quality control, warranty provision, and customer service systems, that would be a different matter.

As he did manage before Banggood let him go.

But I suspect that he might even still be operating as a middle-man from his spare bedroom. No disgrace in that, but things ought to be better and smoother and faster to Western customers. The world is changing rapidly and amateurism just isn’t good enough. He’s had a few years to develop since then and impress us with his acumen. Still waiting.

Frankly, if he is in the loop, I don’t want it. There, I’ve said it, so sue me or rude me. Just know who and what you are dealing with.

If this can be delivered by e.g. Banggood or even Gearbest, or similar, who play to the rules, I’m in. If it has to be a “Del Boy Deals” or similar I’m out.

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Tom Tom wrote:
nag nag nag

 

 

Neal is part of this project as he was in many before. that was clear from the beginning. 

 

you broke repeadetly your promise to stay out..  

please be gone this time!

 

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Facepalm

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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Tom Tom, please drop the subject.

 

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cabfrank
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tatasal wrote:
FW3A Status report:

As of this posting, only the host is ready, the driver and optics are unfinished. Beer

Thanks for the info. It seems as if it may be a while yet then.
Repeating myself, I hope there will be a final prototype sent to TK, and others, before production begins.
It would definitely be better to identify any issues beforehand.

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teacher wrote:
cabfrank wrote:
It better. I try not to be negative in these group buy threads, but it is ridiculous that you are not in the main loop, and among the first to know, about any and all developments. I know you don’t like it either, and I hope it changes immediately.
Thumbs Up … Yes & amen, +1.

+2
We may not agree in every single instance yet your past reputation precedes itself here in terms of giving investors the inside look needed to shape opinions of who we are all actually dealing with in these GBs. Your purpose wasn’t to start anything yet you deserve respect for holding many of these together and frankly offering some hint of credibility where (unfortunately) it is often…we’ll just leave it there (no disrespect whatsoever to the OP who has put lights in thousands of hands for little to no compensation given the work required).

I’m in for (2) more LF351Ds…if only for the above and the fact that McBob is apparently in for (6)…which should intrigue anyone looking for “the perfect light” which (imo) he took a pretty good stab at producing not too long ago:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/63288

(Off Topic): “The Perfect Country and Western Song”
https://www.wideopencountry.com/story-behind-david-allan-coes-never-even...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn2cXDTxWTI

Domari Nolo “I Refuse to be Subjugated” (1st Pennsylvania Regiment Flag) https://www.1stcontinentalregiment.org/blank
(Flagguys.com):..and man o man did they ever refuse to be subjugated. These guys were everywhere. They were important in Washington’s siege of Boston. They stayed behind and were the last to leave after covering the main army’s dangerous nick of time retreat from Long Island. They crossed the Delaware with Washington. They were “..at Brandywine, Germantown, Monmouth, and every major skirmish, and battle all the way to Yorktown..” where they fought “the most important part of the siege” according to General Steuben. These guys saw action in every one of the original 13 colonies.

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Tom Tom wrote:
Time will tell.

You just make your money from affiliate links, codes and other such stuff. No technical contribution AFAIK. All take, no give, just saying.

So don’t criticise me because I am the opposite. I like to talk about technical stuff, maybe not always correctly, but I am true to myself FWIW.

Others try to make money from decent design engineering consultancy, but from what I have heard on the backchannel, even if they were promised a little, it somehow never turns up. They are generally treated like sh(it) and ignored once they have delivered something useful. Until problems arise and it all seems to go friendly again. It’s a cultural thing, respect not being a big part, if there is no personal relationship, face to face etc.

For you’re income stream to keep flowing you need a continual supply of “fresh meat” and fresh punters. And to ramp up the excitement for everything new. Consume.

Let’s just see where this goes, doubtless you are already negotiating your “code” and percentage arrangement with Neal in advance. As I’m sure you have done many times before. Cosy. Looking forward to your review soon. Maybe you’ll have one before TK.

A funny old business, technically regarded as corruption in many territories and very difficult to justify, particularly if you are caught back-handing any of it to the ones who paid you your “commission”.

Or maybe I have mis-judged you, perhaps you are really as dim as you claim, and I should feel sorry for you, whilst you try to get by in the wicked world.

FWIW, I generally dont read, much less agree with what TT says…… not so much that I disagree but mainly because the post are so long that I tend to loose track of what he is saying. On this I have to agree….. Neal’s inability to communicate, insure QC and provide customers a troublefree transaction has a lot to be desired. It ‘seems’ like it is always a roll of the dice when he is involved.

Im not a Pessimist …. just an Optimist with a lot of experience

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Uhm.. as I am still pretty new.. Who is Neal and how does he contribute to all those projects he is involed in (like in the FW3A)? It seems to me that he is more than just an owner of an online shop, so what does he do? And how is this related to M4D M4X?

Also, I always wondered whether any of the people involved in the actual creation of the flashlight design ever see any money for their efforts. Like the people who design the lights, drivers, program UIs etc. This does not seem the case, if I read that right and it makes me kinda sad. If that’s right, I wish there was at least an option to pay 10-20% extra for the light and that extra money then reaches the private contributors from this forum. Because everyone besides them seem to get their fair share out of it(?)

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kanton wrote:
Who is Neal and how does he contribute …? … And how is this related to M4D M4X?

Neal handles a lot of what needs to be done in China. He used to work in the flashlight department of Banggood, and was involved in making the BLF-A6 and Kronos X5/X6, but later ended up on his own. I don’t recall the timeline exactly, but I think he got canned shortly after the failed Cometa project. Then he started his own flashlight middle-man company and was involved in making the BLF GT. He has also been reselling a variety of other products at his online shop, which I think was created in collaboration with M4D M4X. M4D M4X has been doing tuán gòu (group buy) style deals for a few years, where the vendor gets a bunch of buyers, the buyers get a discount coupon, and M4D M4X gets a percentage for his services.

In this case, I think Neal basically hired Lumintop to produce an item, and is acting as a retailer for that item. Once the product is available to buy, the rest of the process is up to Neal and M4D M4X — sales, shipping, support, returns, etc.

kanton wrote:
Also, I always wondered whether any of the people involved in the actual creation of the flashlight design ever see any money for their efforts. Like the people who design the lights, drivers, program UIs etc. This does not seem the case, if I read that right and it makes me kinda sad. If that’s right, I wish there was at least an option to pay 10-20% extra for the light and that extra money then reaches the private contributors from this forum. Because everyone besides them seem to get their fair share out of it(?)

No, the people on the BLF/TLF side of this don’t get any money for it. Just an occasional prototype, and generally a free light or two at the end.

People keep telling me I should set up a Patreon account or something, but I haven’t done it yet. Maybe I should, but most of the time it seems like it’d just be another headache.

teacher
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ToyKeeper wrote:

(snip)
People keep telling me I should set up a Patreon account or something, but I haven’t done it yet. Maybe I should, but most of the time it seems like it’d just be another headache.
Heck, just keep it simple & fairly headache free then. Give us a PayPal address….. money will follow. . Wink

Seriously, please think about it TK. You give a lot here, many of us would like to give back. Thumbs Up

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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kanton
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ToyKeeper wrote:

Neal handles a lot of what needs to be done in China. He used to work in the flashlight department of Banggood, and was involved in making the BLF-A6 and Kronos X5/X6, but later ended up on his own. I don’t recall the timeline exactly, but I think he got canned shortly after the failed Cometa project. Then he started his own flashlight middle-man company and was involved in making the BLF GT. He has also been reselling a variety of other products at his online shop, which I think was created in collaboration with M4D M4X. M4D M4X has been doing tuán gòu (group buy) style deals for a few years, where the vendor gets a bunch of buyers, the buyers get a discount coupon, and M4D M4X gets a percentage for his services.

In this case, I think Neal basically hired Lumintop to produce an item, and is acting as a retailer for that item. Once the product is available to buy, the rest of the process is up to Neal and M4D M4X — sales, shipping, support, returns, etc.


Thank you very much for the explanation! Smile

ToyKeeper wrote:

No, the people on the BLF/TLF side of this don’t get any money for it. Just an occasional prototype, and generally a free light or two at the end.
People keep telling me I should set up a Patreon account or something, but I haven’t done it yet. Maybe I should, but most of the time it seems like it’d just be another headache.

I honestly think you and the others involved in this and similar projects should do that, or a Ko-Fi or at least a PayPal donation thing. Something like that. Not as a payment, but as a token of gratitude from people who really like what you all do.
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I’d be up for that, TK’s interfaces have changed my flashlight world!

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when i ran the BLF GT and other groupbuys i added the "one for the team" token to buy and that raised money has been shared to the team members aand other contributers.

unfortunately i am not part of the FW3A project since Neal started his own shop - i do not know how its done here.


If Toykeeper PMs me her okay and PayPal adress i would be honored to run a donation / raffle whatever

So she does not only get our deepest respect for her supernatural work, but also some money for more profane things like a nice dinner or a day in the spa to forget all those bits and bytes Wink




find all available items in this list

i launched my new blog - all deals for members without MAP B$ Wink

find a short description about my idea here

 

if you want to buy a flashlight or battery for a better price: just send a mail - i will try to save you money!

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Please add me to the list for 1x…..many thanks~

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Same thing.

I can donate a bit of money to project contributors.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/64047
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Coscar
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I thought there should have been a ‘permanent’ TK donation thread with a PP addy a long time ago…. she deserves it for her time and knowledge.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/47205

Im not a Pessimist …. just an Optimist with a lot of experience

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