FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight - SST-20 available, coupon codes public

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mortuus
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hm i dont get it, suddenly there is a problem getting the LH351D emitters when they were confirmed long ago, so they will change to sst20 now then or ?

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DavidEF wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
Firelight2 wrote:
XPL HI (probably two 5000K and one 4000K) and the optic to 10507.

That’ll produce a pretty strange beam pattern. XP-L HI + 10507 tends to have fairly visible artifacts, and you’d be getting artifacts in two different colors.


That might be exactly what he’s going for. Look at his username. Maybe he’s going to run it on candle mode and watch the artifacts flicker all over the place. Party
Actually, I modded lights with mixed emitters and the Carclo 10507 years ago. Before quads were common, the big thing everyone modded were triples and I converted numerous lights to them including the Sunwayman C20C, DQG Tiny III, and Convoy S2+.

When you mix emitter tints in these small triples the hotspot and most of the spill is a completely uniform mix with no artifacts that perfectly blends the emitters into a uniform new tint. You don’t even notice that different emitter tints were used unless you turn the light on in moonlight and look into the bezel, or shine it on a white wall from an inch away. Even from a foot away the beams blend almost perfectly. Not suprising since the hotspots are probably a foot wide and the emitters are maybe 1 cm separated.

The only artifacts the 10507 produces are a ring of flower petal like shapes at the edges outside the beam. These petals come from individual emitters so will be different colors and won’t blend. But the reality is they aren’t really noticeable except when looking at a white wall and spinning the light like a pinwheel in your hand. They also don’t look at all ugly.

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mortuus wrote:
hm i dont get it, suddenly there is a problem getting the LH351D emitters when they were confirmed long ago, so they will change to sst20 now then or ?

Toykeeper just said that she thought they put the order in a long time ago, but it turns out they didn’t. Now they are trying to order them and are having problems getting the exact tint, etc… So it seems Lumintop made a mistake by not ordering soon enough.

Now we are in a position where they can put their order in now and it will be a long time before they can get them or maybe they will just order the sst-20 and maybe get it sooner. Make sense?

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mortuus
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I must say i am bit dissapointed in hearing this, considering how long this light is in making, emitters should be the last problem really i just dont understand the thing with forget to order them or something.. so for now it will take a while until that light with either that emitter or if it will change to sst20 will come out Sad Lumintop knows long ago how many have shown interest so far must be many that want the samsung emitters.

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There is no way you can fathom the ways of chinese flashlight manufacturers. But you can talk about it for sure…

Personally I like the SST-20 in a Carclo optic, gives a nicer beam than the huge spot of the LH351D in my opinion. The only drawback for me is that in a low resitance direct drive flashlight that the FW3A is, at turbo they are driven too hard (same as the SST-20 and 219C in the D4). It helps that the FW3A has the extra bank of 7135’s that the D4 does not have so you are good up to the most useful middle modes.

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It may not necessarily be an issue of forgetfulness. Sometimes you have a situation where the financial department will tell you to not order things too early either because they don’t have the funds or they’re not 100% sure it’s the right product and instead to wait a little later to make the order. Of course by then there could be a situation where your particular emitter tint is not available.

It could also be due to a miscommunication or even a mistake in inventory.

There’s a lot of possible explanations and we really don’t know what the situation was.

All we know right now is that an emitter needs to be ordered.

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mortuus
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but how will it decide, will they switch to sst20 for those that want and make the other emitter later for those that want the samsung, or will it only be 2 emitters produced ? seems a bit confusing right now hopefully someone can clear things up. If the wait is gonna be long then i can go for the sst20.

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Only 2 led options, the xpl-hi and something else.

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mortuus
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okok, so what should happen now, maybe make a poll keep the samsung or switch to the sst20 ?

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mortuus wrote:
okok, so what should happen now, maybe make a poll keep the samsung or switch to the sst20 ?

That would be more noise in this already confuse process.
I guess it should be better to wait for LT decision on this!
Making new polls with dozens or hundreds of opinions that may end up in nothing if LT decides to go other way, would be very exhausting.

TK, tatasal and Neal seem to be in contact more or less. Maybe it is better to let them bring us the news and say what will be needed or not about this process!

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mortuus
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okok u are right, makes sense.

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metroplex
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Hi, just found about this light after a seeing a few mentions on r/flashlight – very interested and would like to order two.

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For comparison:
Firelight2 played around with SST20 4000K 95 CRI and compared it to XPL HI D4. Both are Emisar D4 lights.
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1456366#comment-1456366

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Thanks for that link, I hadn’t seen that post before.

Secondly, I’d like to invite all those who continue to ‘muddy the waters’ with requests to make changes to read the first page of this thread. It is what it is; you’ve paid no money and have nothing to complain about.

People other than yourself are offering voluntary time and services in an interesting creative endeavour. If you’re not satisfied, design and create something superior yourself. Maybe the rest of us will buy it and maybe not…but for this one it is what it is and all this criticism and back seat driving is getting on my nerves. Imagine how it feels for those actually putting in the effort.

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I’m most excited for XPL HI.

If I get a second one, I’d like it to be quite different from the HI version. I understand that with the triple optic they will be in the same ballpark, but I’d like them to be at opposite ends of the spectrum, if that makes sense.

mortuus
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Tumbleweed48 wrote:
Thanks for that link, I hadn’t seen that post before.

Secondly, I’d like to invite all those who continue to ‘muddy the waters’ with requests to make changes to read the first page of this thread. It is what it is; you’ve paid no money and have nothing to complain about.

People other than yourself are offering voluntary time and services in an interesting creative endeavour. If you’re not satisfied, design and create something superior yourself. Maybe the rest of us will buy it and maybe not…but for this one it is what it is and all this criticism and back seat driving is getting on my nerves. Imagine how it feels for those actually putting in the effort.

Not sure where u are going with this, what requests nobody is requesting anything? i think everyone that are on the list are excited to see the end of tunnel hopefully not too long from now, but this thing with the samsung emitters is ofc not much to do atm.

The whole idea with the samsung emitter was the reason i jumped in here and i read almost daily to see if any news etc pop up, progress on prototypes feedback etc all that.. i want buy this light once its ready. Ive had this joy that im gonna have a first light with tripple frost lens with the samsung emitters and now it seems maybe that wont happen, wouldnt u be a bit dissapointd if u counted on it ?

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joechina wrote:
For comparison:
Firelight2 played around with SST20 4000K 95 CRI and compared it to XPL HI D4. Both are Emisar D4 lights.
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1456366#comment-1456366
Wow, thanks for the link joechina; I had not seen that post by Firelight2 comparing the two emitters.
It tells me all ‘I’ need to know about the SST20 4000K 95 CRI. Crying

It makes me very sorry I ordered a Convoy S2+ with the emitter just to see what all the hype I had been reading was about. Facepalm
Oh well, it was on sale for cheap…. if it turns out to be as I suspect after reading Firelight2’s report; I’ll just swap the emitter or give the light away. Wink
.
Well said Tumbleweed48…

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teacher wrote:
[…]
It makes me very sorry I ordered a Convoy S2+ with the emitter just to see what all the hype I had been reading was about. Facepalm
Oh well, it was on sale for cheap…. if it turns out to be as I suspect after reading Firelight2’s report; I’ll just swap the emitter or give the light away. Wink

Or you can put some diffuser sheet above the lens to avoid the greenish Wink That’s what I do with a – for me – good emitter, XML2 T6-4C in a Convoy S2 and it works Wink

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

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Maybe it’s an idea to wait for the LH351D, but also give the option to order the light without emitters.

That way LT doesn’t have to source new emitters and everyone is happy.

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MascaratumB wrote:

Or you can put some diffuser sheet above the lens to avoid the greenish Wink That’s what I do with a – for me – good emitter, XML2 T6-4C in a Convoy S2 and it works Wink
True, but after reading that report; ‘there was much more that ‘I personally’ was less than impressed with’ than the “greenish” color. Wink

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MascaratumB
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teacher wrote:
MascaratumB wrote:
Or you can put some diffuser sheet above the lens to avoid the greenish Wink That’s what I do with a – for me – good emitter, XML2 T6-4C in a Convoy S2 and it works Wink
True, but after reading that report; ‘there was much more that ‘I personally’ was less than impressed with’ than the “greenish” color. Wink

Oh, sorry, I thought you were focusing on the tint Facepalm Big Smile
I guess it will be a very specific LED, better for some type of use than other!
Anyway, I’m planning to grab one of each LEDs that will be sold, so waiting more or not, I’ll…wait Big Smile

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

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I’ll defer my preferences on emitters to those who don’t expect to mod their lights.

Whichever high CRI emitter the FW3A comes with, I will probably also buy a triple of the other to swap and compare and decide which I like best.

With regards to the LH351D being floody, it seems worth mentioning that Djozz tested dome slicing of the LH351D, and reported good results. 15-20% light loss, but increased throw, and also, rosier, warmer tint.
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1409782#comment-1409782

A Q6-binned Samsung would be equivalent to D240 in Nichia terms (240 lumens minimum at 700mA and 85 deg C). Based on DJozz’s sliced emitter measurement, that suggests a D190 output after dedoming.

A J4-binned SST-20 would also be equivalent to D190, so this creates a couple similar options for those interested in modding.

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MascaratumB wrote:

Oh, sorry, I thought you were focusing on the tint Facepalm Big Smile
I guess it will be a very specific LED, better for some type of use than other!
Anyway, I’m planning to grab one of each LEDs that will be sold, so waiting more or not, I’ll…wait Big Smile
No problem my friend. Thumbs Up . Big Smile . Tint was indeed just one factor. Wink
The XP-L HI has always been my first choice anyway. I will probably get one (1) of the second choice emitters too, whatever it ends up being; if first reports are favorable in the ‘tint department’. Wink

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I almost knew this was coming….getting a Chinese company to use South Korean suppliers (ie. Samsung) is like finding a unicorn, few and far between….personally not interested in the SST-20 in the slightest.

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Based on the link to Firelight2’s comparison above, it sounds like SST-20’s may not be such a good idea after all. Maybe we should wait for the Samsungs.

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My vote is wait for the Samsung’s. I’m down for two atm, one XPL-HI and one LH351D. I’ve been underwhelmed with my experience of the SST-20s and am not interested in any more until the tints are definitely below BBL without any green or yellow tint.

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If the tint is good and not green I’m fine with sst20

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Firelight2 wrote:
artifacts the 10507 produces are a ring of flower petal like shapes at the edges outside the beam. These petals come from individual emitters so will be different colors and won’t blend.

Yes, there are 12 individual marks, arranged like the hours on a clock. And with one emitter different, it’ll look even more like a clock, because the marks at 3, 6, 9, and 12 o’clock will be a different color. In addition to those, I find XP-L HI in 10507 also produces three large corona “petals” which surround the hotspot like a big triangle. One of these three would also be a different color. Maybe it’s not so noticeable with 4000K and 5000K though, since they’re both pretty neutral.

With 10511 the big triangle is gone and the clock hour marks are much less noticeable.

mortuus wrote:
should

I only quoted this one key word… because “should” really doesn’t apply to any part of this process. And for life in general, I find that “should” is usually just a path to disappointment.

JasonWW wrote:
There’s a lot of possible explanations and we really don’t know what the situation was.

Exactly. I don’t know either. Neal doesn’t really tell me much detail about anything. However, I can confirm it’s not just the FW3A. The BLF Lantern seems to be having some difficulty sourcing LH351D emitters too.

mortuus wrote:
will it only be 2 emitters produced ?

There are no concrete answers yet. However, there is a high probabilty of more than two, in the future… because I think this light will probably be very popular if it is made well with no major flaws. Like, if the driver fit and reliability issue is fixed, it will probably sell very well.

The BLF A6 was very popular, and is still being produced and sold years later. It’s a practical general-purpose EDC light, and I think it has now sold more units than every other BLF project. It still gets recommended on forums because no one has yet made a better budget light to replace it. But I think the FW3A could finally replace the BLF A6.

If my guess is right, and if things go well, it may become a best-seller. So I’m guessing Lumintop will want to produce more versions of it in the future.

Tumbleweed48 wrote:
read the first page of this thread. It is what it is… all this criticism and back seat driving is getting on my nerves. Imagine how it feels for those actually putting in the effort.

This is true. However, I did ask for feedback about the emitter type. I want to know if people are okay with using SST-20, which is easier to get, or if they’d rather wait for LH351D even though it could take quite a while.

It’s not a quantitative poll though. Even if people voted 100% one way or the other, I can’t guarantee what will actually happen. It’s more to just get a general qualitative feel of what people prefer, so we can give a suggestion to the manufacturer.

teacher wrote:
joechina wrote:
For comparison: Firelight2 played around with SST20 4000K 95 CRI and compared it to XPL HI D4. Both are Emisar D4 lights. http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1456366#comment-1456366

Wow, thanks for the link joechina; I had not seen that post by Firelight2 comparing the two emitters.

It tells me all ‘I’ need to know about the SST20 4000K 95 CRI. Crying

My favorite by far is XP-L HI. I think I’ve been fairly clear about that, but just in case… it’s the one I consider the best for this light. I would ideally only make the light with XP-L HI emitters, and offer it in 7D, 5D, 4D, 3D, and 1D tints. Or maybe 6D, 5A, 3D, 2A. Perhaps 7A, 5D, 4A, 2D. Something like that.

I’ve tried both LH351D and SST-20, but my experience with both so far has been “icky green tint”, even at high CRI. But maybe that would be better with the correct tint bin.

However, this project isn’t just for me. Or just for Fritz. We already have one. This project is for the people. And a lot of people really like LH351D or SST-20. So we’ll use those… or at least one of the two. If either one can be obtained in a rosy tint bin, I think it would turn out well.

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My favorite, and many other’s as well, is also XPL-HI. I think some people want to just try another emitter, or keep the cost slightly lower. I’m sure I’d be very happy with just two XPL versions.

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3D and 5D XPL HI are great options. Hank's been selling the 5D's for quite a while now, but who knows if they are still available in the supply chain.

 

The LH351D's are exciting for being high CRI and good lumens, while the SST-20's are exciting for super high CRI, decent lumens and better throw. The benefits though aren't overwhelming, but they also come with cons. So far I'm lik'n the 3500K SST-20's from Blue, but my prefs are on the warmer side of neutral anyway, and not sure if I'm susceptible to noticing the greens as much.

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