FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight - SST-20 available, coupon codes public

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patmurris
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Tally-ho wrote:
Pictures of the FW3 Ti+Cu and FW3 brass are here : http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1514003#comment-1514003

I didn’t realize the left one was brass – i thought it was the copper one.

So actual versions floating around are:

  • Anodized aluminum – original FW3A available in gray so far
  • Copper – can be ordered, unsure whether it ships yet
  • Brass – proto?
  • Titanium/Copper – proto?
  • SS – ?

Any confirmations on those?

nydude
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got it cool thanks

Firelight2
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Only ones I think are confirmed to be working on are:

  • Grey anodized aluminum – FW3A – available
  • Copper – FW3C – available for preorder
  • Cu-Ti – FW3T – planned. Photo of prototype
  • Brass – photo of prototype.
  • Other colors of anodized aluminum (green, purple, blue) – planned.

I don’t recall hearing or seeing anything official about any other versions of the FW3A.

RapidLux
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What is SS’s heat capacity compared to anodized aluminium? Will the Cu head in FW3T make it have better or slightly less heat tolerance than original the Al-ano? Has brass equal heat tolerance as Al?

justanotherguy
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I think the best dissipator of heat is copper, then aluminum..not counting precious metals

anyone in NE ILLinois into get togethers?

Firelight2
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Not a scientific response, but recollection from the top of my head:

  • SS is pretty bad for heat – it conducts heat worse than Titanium and much worse than copper or aluminum. It’s also extremely heavy. Expect a stainless steel FW3A to get really hot at the head really fast, without conducting much heat out of the head to the rest of the light. It would probably ramp down pretty fast. I haven’t actually seen anything from Neal about a SS version though. I don’t think one is planned.
  • Brass’ heat tolerance depends on the alloy. My understanding is that the typical type of brass found in flashlights conducts heat worse than aluminum and much worse than pure copper. It is also quite a bit heaiver than aluminum.
  • FW3T contains a copper head combined with titanium bezel, body tube and tailcap. Copper both holds more heat than aluminum and conducts it much better. However, Titanium conducts heat much worse than aluminum. If it’s anything like the difference between the D4 and D4 Ti (which used a similar setup), I expect the copper head would heat up really fast, but the body tube would remain relatively cool. The light probably wouldn’t stay at max output for long and might even ramp down earlier than the all aluminum version.
  • FW3C – all copper version should have the best thermal characteristics of all the FW3A variants and should be able to run turbo longest. However, if it transmits heat too well, the user might find it actually to be less practical than the aluminum version. This would be the case if the entire exterior heats up at such a uniform rate there isn’t a safe place to hold the light without getting burned.
id30209
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The best heat conductor is copper, then brass (no matter which alloy), alu and SS and at the last place is titanium.
It’s a neverending subject in CPF group…

WTB Titanium 4sevens Quarks & Jetbeam TCR1

kat
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Can anyone tell me why would someone choose XP-L over SST 20 ?

Klayking
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The tint is much nicer, and doesn’t shift from green to purple as you increase the power. It’s also quite efficient, so it won’t get as hot. It’s also more powerful than the high CRI SST-20s, though slightly less throwy than the low CRI ones.

I’m a huge fan of the XP-L HI, but if the SST-20s that the team managed to bag for the FW3A do indeed turn out to be not green, then I might just have a new favourite emitter. CRI + good tint is a major win in my book, but I can’t stand the puke green of all the SST-20s I have seen so far, so I’m really hoping that the ones in the FW3A will change that.

emarkd
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Firelight2 wrote:
emarkd wrote:
nydude wrote:
are they doing titanium? would be interested in one.

It would seem so. There’s a couple of prototype photo floating around, one solid titanium and another titanium with a copper head/heatsink area. Nothing official has been confirmed though, that I’ve seen.

The only photo of a titanium FW3A is titanium with copper head.

There aren’t any photos of an all titanium FW3A. I think you’re thinking of photos a couple people have made of modded polished aluminum FW3As with the anodizing stripped.

I’m not sure, anything is possible I suppose, but I was told this was solid ti? Not sure the provenance of this photo but it looks darker than aluminum to me. Maybe its the titanium body with a bare aluminum head? idk…

Tixx
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kat wrote:
Can anyone tell me why would someone choose XP-L over SST 20 ?

Less heat, greater output, great tint.

contactcr
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It’s not less heat unless they did something to the firmware to limit output in which case it would be less output at the cost of less heat.

BurningPlayd0h
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kat wrote:
Can anyone tell me why would someone choose XP-L over SST 20 ?

Higher max output, better efficiency, for very cool or warm CCT, and potentially for better tint.

Klayking wrote:
The tint is much nicer, and doesn’t shift from green to purple as you increase the power. It’s also quite efficient, so it won’t get as hot. It’s also more powerful than the high CRI SST-20s, though slightly less throwy than the low CRI ones.

I’m a huge fan of the XP-L HI, but if the SST-20s that the team managed to bag for the FW3A do indeed turn out to be not green, then I might just have a new favourite emitter. CRI + good tint is a major win in my book, but I can’t stand the puke green of all the SST-20s I have seen so far, so I’m really hoping that the ones in the FW3A will change that.

Eh, the 3Ds my light came with looked pretty gross TBH. Almost more green than the sliced 90CRI LH351Ds I compared them to. No clue what the 7A tint was like but the 3D were very disappointing with what I’ve seen from XPL HIs up to this point.

Klayking
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Oh yeah, I forgot that the 3Ds sourced for the FW3A didn’t turn out to be as good as expected. I got the 3300K 7A emitters and they’re gorgeous, with a slight hint of rosiness. I’ve also got the 5D 4000K emitters in a few other flashlights, which are just about perfect in my eyes, as well as 3A 5000K, which looks absolutely pure white to my eyes.

Shame we didn’t get 3A in the FW3A. The name is kind of asking for it.

Firelight2
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Normally, I prefer XPL HI over SST-20, because of the extra output and better tint. And that’s using XPL HI emitters I’ve modded in… not the stock XPL HI emitters.

But in the case of the FW3A, the SST20s it comes with are the best I’ve ever seen. Not greenish at all. Holding it up side-by-side next to my puke-green Emisar D4 SST-20, the beams are night and day. And I prefer these SST-20 over any XPL HI I’ve tried.

BurningPlayd0h
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Klayking wrote:
Oh yeah, I forgot that the 3Ds sourced for the FW3A didn’t turn out to be as good as expected. I got the 3300K 7A emitters and they’re gorgeous, with a slight hint of rosiness. I’ve also got the 5D 4000K emitters in a few other flashlights, which are just about perfect in my eyes, as well as 3A 5000K, which looks absolutely pure white to my eyes.

Shame we didn’t get 3A in the FW3A. The name is kind of asking for it.

I’ve got a triple board of 5Ds on the way for mine, I’m stoked.

Klayking
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Firelight2 wrote:
But in the case of the FW3A, the SST20s it comes with are the best I’ve ever seen. Not greenish at all. Holding it up side-by-side next to my puke-green Emisar D4 SST-20, the beams are night and day. And I prefer these SST-20 over any XPL HI I’ve tried.

My FW3C SST-20 just shipped today. I’m quite excited to get my hands on it now! I’ve ordered a clear optic with it, and I can also swap it with my FW3A’s frosted optic too, in addition to trying the even floodier Lumintop optic.
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Will the new SST-20 emitter version be delivered with the latest/fixed anduril? (to manually set the memorized level)?

Kiltan
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Which one has better tint subjective?

Nichia 219c 4000k or SST20 4000k.

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SST-20 4000k.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Klayking
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I can tell you that I’ve got another Lumintop light with a 4000K 219C in it and it’s absolutely gorgeous. A real golden glow with a hint of rosiness. Admittedly I’d prefer a slightly more neutral temperature with a high CRI emitter, but I’m not about to complain. I’ve got some 5000K 219Cs in an Emisar D4 and they’re very green in comparison. Lumintop’s stock seems to be a very good bin.

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id30209 wrote:
The best heat conductor is copper, then brass (no matter which alloy), alu and SS and at the last place is titanium.
It’s a neverending subject in CPF group…

I thought brass is significantly worse than aluminum
Doug
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Brass is 65-90% copper.

Lumenati

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Firelight2
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Quote:
I thought brass is significantly worse than aluminum

You are correct.

Doug wrote:
Brass is 65-90% copper.
Just because Brass is mostly copper does NOT mean it has the thermal characteristics of pure copper.

From a quick Google search: Thermal Conductivity of different materials.

Material ………………….. Thermal Conductivity (W/m K)
Silver ……………………… 406
Copper ……………………. 385
Aluminum ………………. 204 (but can be much lower depending on alloy chosen)
Brass ………………………. 109-125
Stainless Steel …………. 16.3
Titanium ………………….. 22.5 (or lower depending on alloy)

For materials found in typical flashlights, in general Copper has the best thermal conductivity followed by aluminum and then brass. Titanium and stainless steel are in a distant last place.

Doug
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Thanks for that information and for making me smarter! Grad

Lumenati

id30209
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Thx from my side as well!
Every day you learn something new

EDIT: but i need to agree with Doug also, my custom brass torch is getting warmer than alu torch with the same Cu light engine. Maker confirmed it has high quantity of copper so it would be ok to check with Lumintop about the brass they are about to release…

WTB Titanium 4sevens Quarks & Jetbeam TCR1

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Bob_McBob wrote:
I posted a review of the SST-20 FW3A on Reddit with full colour and output measurements. I will try to transfer it over here when I have time to format the tables.

https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/c6vfe5/review_lumintop_fw3a...

Thanks to you and bigtrav261 for confirming the tint on the SST-20 4000K. I just bought two!

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id30209 wrote:
Thx from my side as well!
Every day you learn something new

EDIT: but i need to agree with Doug also, my custom brass torch is getting warmer than alu torch with the same Cu light engine. Maker confirmed it has high quantity of copper so it would be ok to check with Lumintop about the brass they are about to release…


There are multiple factors involved:
  • Thermal Conductivity – how fast heat conducts through the material – a copper light with high thermal conductivity will probably heat up over the entire light. While a titanium light with low thermal conductivity will heat up mostly at the head, with the body and tailcap remaining relatively cool. The head might end up quite a bit hotter than the head in an all copper light, because the heat isn’t able to get out of the head quickly.

  • Thermal Capacity – how much heat energy the material can store. My understanding is that copper holds more heat than aluminum by volume, but aluminum is much lighter and can hold more heat more by mass.
  • Emissivity – this how fast heat is able to exit the material by being radiated away. In general higher emissivity is best. Dark anodized aluminum has good emissivity. Polished metal tends to have less.

The most practical setup for a flashlight is probably a pure copper pill combined with dark anodized aluminum body. This gives you maximum thermal conductivity right at the point of heat generation (the LED), while maintaining good emissivity and overall light weight (all copper lights are very heavy which is not very practical. Plus if they heat up too uniformly you may need gloves to hold the light).

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HOLY CRAP.. Another favorite light got hot after shorting and smells of burned plastic right out of the blue.. I had a scary incident last month with the Imalent DX80 nearly exploding in my hands, and now this FW3A emitted burning smell and stopped working after just falling off a 20 inch high night table..

I picked it up and noticed it had turned on on its own and began ramping through its stepped modes to turbo, and could not turn it off with thew switch! i quickly unscrewed the head to revel a smell of burning similar to what i experienced in the DX80 failure and an extremely hot head section. so i got up and threaddded it back together as normal, but it did not turn on at first, but when i took the head off again and put it back on it turned on instantly and began to ram up to its turbo mode and could not turn it off with the switch.. Facepalm

so i got out of bed, went to my desk to inspect it, and found what appeared to be a burn spot on the switch MCPCB, along with the smell of burned plastic all to reminiscent to the scary moment my DX80 went into melt down.

below is the photo of the spot on the board that don’t look normal:

i know the 30Q was in correctly as i used it earlier a hour ago to take the dog out to pee before bed, then suddenly when it fell off the night table it did this..

Here is the video after i got out of bed to show what happened to this FW3A. I only had this light for a couple weeks and it did this.. Its becoming hard to feel safe anymore around flashlights after experiencing to major failures of this kind with burned components and over heating due to a short… Tired

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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