Haikelite MT03 over discharging batteries

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everydaysurvivalgear
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Haikelite MT03 over discharging batteries

Hey lads so i tried my MT03 today and all the batteries where gone.
Sony VTC5 wasted i don’t really use the light so it drained the cells in standby some how. kinda angry now seeing as these are fairly new cells. I can probably save 3 but 1.1 volts is tad low.

Has any one else had this issue?

The voltages are as follows
1.1 volts was the lowest voltage.
1.8volts
2.2 volts
3.5 volts.

I can see the problem i think maybe one cell was not making proper contact and cause the rest of the cells to get drained more?

Be careful!

Jerommel
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Wow, those differences between the cells are the most disturbing of all…
Were they not matched, or did you use some more often than others, or is your charger bad?
One of them is still good, apparently (3,5 Volts).

But i guess parasitic drain is at play here.
This is why it’s quite silly the switch lights up when the light is ON, not when OFF to remind you you should lock out by screwing the head half a turn from the battery tube.

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Keepitsharp
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Yes, this happened to me almost exactly with my VTC5s in a MT03 recently. After a week or so off and in standby, I go to turn the light on and nothing…. Measured voltages and all 4 were close around 0.65 volts!!

I know this is a scary deep discharge and bad chemistry goes on in cells discharged this low. I could not even attempt to recharge them initially as all of my chargers assumed the cells were NiMH. They have now, as I just checked after banishing them a week ago, recovered to around 2.2 volts. I just tried one and my Li-500 is now accepting the cell as a nominal 4.2v cell. Even if they do accept a charge, I expect the capacity to be shot. I don’t think I can trust the cells and I certainly don’t trust the MT03 any more unless I empty it of cells when not in use. Not sure I have the patience for that sort of nonsense!

Yes, anyone with this light should be very careful!

Jerommel
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That reminds me, you may have seen my topic about modding the MT03, and the first thing i did was the mandatory bypassing of the springs with 18AWG silicone wire.
But it had some bits of glue on the + battery contacts which could cause some contact problems, although i didn’t notice anything wrong with the batteries.
It’s probably the glue they used for the reverse polarity protection rings.
You might want to check that out.

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5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

everydaysurvivalgear
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Yea my one is modded so the batteries fit proper. The standby current must be really bad! Honestly i have not used it since my review i have no need for so much light but i wanted a laugh so i thought id start it up that was an expensive laugh lol

I am honestly surprised the batteries have not been in here very long at all.

I always cycle my batteries but i dont worry about them for a few months at a time.

hIKARInoob
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That’s a bummer Chris. I wonder if the newer variant MT03II has the same drain value…

Jerommel
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Okay, both Chris and Keepitsharp have the old version?

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5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

everydaysurvivalgear
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Yea 2S2P I have the very first model before production. I will go through the driver and see if i can find the cause.

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Jerommel wrote:
Okay, both Chris and Keepitsharp have the old version?

Chris has the review sample, which I’m pretty sure is 2S2P very first generation… Is that right Chris?

everydaysurvivalgear
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Even being 2S2P at least both sets should be draining fairly even.

mrheosuper
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Woah, the standby current scares me
How much is that

Forgot my pen

Jerommel
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everydaysurvivalgear wrote:
Even being 2S2P at least both sets should be draining fairly even.

That problem there can only be caused in the battery tube or you may have used mismatched cells.
I use a set of four new VTC5 in mine (well, when it was still working Big SmileBig Smile ) which i will only use together in the MT03.
I just had a look and they’re all 3.61 Volts

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5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

EasyB
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mrheosuper wrote:
Woah, the standby current scares me How much is that

I agree. Has the standby current been measured?

maukka
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33 µA on my 2S2P early batch one.

edit: I take that back, now I get 665 µA… I’ll have to do some more checking.

So, this is disconcerting, with only two cells, I get the 665 µA but with all four I get 62 mA.

Keepitsharp
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Sorry, was away for a bit. My MT03 is one that Haikelite sent me new 2S2P plates and driver to replace my 4S about a month ago. I resoldered these in and I am not at all sure whether it is now V1 or V2 and I am not taking it apart again! Nor do I want to put cells back it it as I don’t trust mine anymore.

EasyB
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maukka wrote:
33 µA on my 2S2P early batch one.

This is not very much. It’s hard to believe it would account for the complete discharge of the cells in less than a year.

Edit: OK he remeasured and got 665 microamps. This current would deplete 1000mAh in 60 days.

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So here’s the photos from my measurement from one pair of batteries and with the other one connected too.

I find this strange, since I got the 33 µA back when I did the review.

Jerommel
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That’s crazy..
How can the parasitic drain be so much more with 2P ??

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5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

maukka
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Jerommel wrote:
That’s crazy.. How can the parasitic drain be so much more with 2P ??

Maybe an EE/driver expert could chime in. And no, the light wasn’t lit during either of the measurements Smile

I’ll leave the cells in for couple of days to see if they’re drained.

maukka
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I’m really baffled now. Since all of my meters gave conflicting numbers, I tried a clamp. It reported ~22 mA with all the batteries connected. So a week should be enough to drain 3500 mAh batteries.

everydaysurvivalgear
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I will try and charge these cells if they rest at higher voltage and measure standby drain.

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Tested just in case with an Agilent 34401A bench meter and it reports 666 µA with 1P and 44 µA with 2P.

mrheosuper
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maukka wrote:
I’m really baffled now. Since all of my meters gave conflicting numbers, I tried a clamp. It reported ~22 mA with all the batteries connected. So a week should be enough to drain 3500 mAh batteries.

I dont trust clamp when measure low current
How about using normal multimeter

Forgot my pen

mrheosuper
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maukka wrote:
Tested just in case with an Agilent 34401A bench meter and it reports 666 µA with 1P and 44 µA with 2P.

666, LOL. I’m so scare
666uA is quite high

Forgot my pen

maukka
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And just in case I measured between the battery carrier and head with all the batteries and got 667 µA. Same result for only two batteries in series. Also used button tops to make sure all the batteries have good contact. I suppose this would be the best guess of the true drain so far.

Jerommel
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…and i assume the newer version has the same driver… Sad

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5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

everydaysurvivalgear
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Yea i dont see why they would have changed the driver? It was the 4S that was having the issues?

ChibiM
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Parasitic drain is the very reason I prefer mechanical switches over electronic switches!
(although I have a few side switches, they are only welcome if they can be locked out)

I hope there will be an updated version of that driver somehow, because this ain`t good!

Jerommel
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Yeah, you’re right, and i remember seeing a picture of the driver in a topic of yours, and it’s the same as mine…

Such a shame they didn’t have us on BLF test the preliminary product before putting it on the market.. (although they kind of did use you first buyers as Guinee pigs, in a way..)
The driver basically sucks, but it’s retained by a fat nickel plated pure copper ring (?!) and the ring on top of the battery tube also.
The springs look silver plated.
…but then the MCPCB shelf is less than 2mm thick ?!
Strange things..
It does look awesome though. Thumbs Up

But as said:
Someone who understands this driver could be helpful, maybe have a solution for this high parasitic drain phenomenon.

Looking for:

5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

Jerommel
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ChibiM wrote:

Parasitic drain is the very reason I prefer mechanical switches over electronic switches!
(although I have a few side switches, they are only welcome if they can be locked out)


I hope there will be an updated version of that driver somehow, because this ain`t good!

You can lock out the HT03 by unscrewing the battery tube half a turn.
Works very well, kind of seems to be designed to do so, with the big contact discs.

Looking for:

5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

maukka
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Had the MT03 sit on the shelf with the fully charged batteries (18650GA) inside for 8 days (188 hours). Charged the batteries and they received 201 mAh in total (52+54+50+45 mAh). So on average 201 mAh / 188 h = 1.07 mA which would equal completely discharging the batteries in 1.5 years. So it is not totally negligible even when subtracting the small battery self discharge or the small difference in charge-discharge capacity. But not quite there with OP’s drain (empty in 6 months). The standby current may of course increase when the voltage drops.