LED Package/ Die Sizes - WIP -

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CRX
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LED Package/ Die Sizes - WIP -

I am looking to put together information about the substrate and actual die sizes of the LED's that we use in our lights.

Any help with this resource would be greatly appreciated and save me some hours of time searching.

So if you know any numbers or have any failed de doming attempts and digital calipers laying around then you can help me put this table together Thumbs Up

 

Feel free to point out any mistakes or suggestions .

So far we have:

 

~~~~~~LED.Name~~~~~ ~Package.Size~ Diagonal.Max Total.Height Substrate ~Dome.Dia~ ~Die.Size~mm~ ~Die.mm2~ Köf3.Tests Djozz.Tests TA.Tests
                     
Cree MT-G2 9.11 x 9.11 12.90 4.85 0.65 8.30 4.47r 15.70 @ @ ~
Cree XHP70 7.00 x 7.00 9.90 4.49 0.73 7.00 3.92 x 9.92 30.57 @ @ ~
Cree XHP70.2 7.00 x 7.00 9.90 4.34 0.56 7.00 5.61 x 5.61 31.52 @ ~ @
Cree XHP50 5.00 x 5.00 7.07 3.58 0.73 5.00 4.67 x 4.67 21.83 ~ @ @
Cree XHP50.2 5.00 x 5.00 7.07 3.50 0.65 5.00 4.82 x 4.82 23.22 ~ @ @
Cree XHP35 HD 3.45 x 3.45 4.87 2.80 0.65 3.45 2.35 x 2.35 5.52 ~ ~ @
Cree XHP35 HI 3.45 x 3.45 4.87 1.00 0.65 Flat 2.43 x 2.43 5.90 ~ ~ ~
Cree XM-L 5.00 x 5.00 7.07 3.02 0.73 4.34 1.97 x 1.97 3.88 ~ ~ ~
Cree XM-L2 5.00 x 5.00 7.07 3.02 0.73 4.10 1.98 x 1.98 3.92 @ @ @
Cree XP-G 3.45 x 3.45 4.87 2.00 0.73 2.60 1.40 x 1.40 1.96 ~ ~ ~
Cree XP-G2 (OLD) 3.45 x 3.45 4.87 2.36 0.83 2.60 1.29 x 1.29 1.66 ~ @ ~
Cree XP-G2 (New) 3.45 x 3.45 4.87 2.26 0.73 2.60 1.47 x 1.47 2.18 ~ ~ ~
Cree XP-G3 3.45 x 3.45 4.87 2.26 0.73 2.90 1.44 x 1.44 2.06 @ @ @
Cree XP-L HD 3.45 x 3.45 4.87 2.68 0.58 3.42 2.03 x 2.03 4.13 ~ @ @
Cree XP-L HI 3.45 x 3.45 4.87 1.00 0.58 Flat 1.91 x 1.91 3.67 @ @ @
Cree XP-L2 HD 3.45 x 3.45 4.87 2.68 0.58 3.42 1.88 x 1.88 3.55 @ ~ @
Cree XP-C 3.45 x 3.45 4.87 2.00 0.73 2.60 0.66 x 0.66 0.44 ~ ~ ~
Cree XP-E 3.45 x 3.45 4.87 2.00 0.73 2.60 0.92 x 0.92 0.85 ~ ~ ~
Cree XP-E2 3.45 x 3.45 4.87 2.26 0.73 2.60 0.92 x 0.92 0.85 @ @ ~
Cree XP-E2 Torch 3.45 x 3.45 4.87 2.26 0.65 2.60 1.41 x 1.41 2.00 @ @ ~
Cree XR-E EZ900 9.00 x 7.00 11.40 4.40 ~ 6.80 frame 0.85 x 0.85 0.73 ~ @ ~
Cree XR-E EZ1000 9.00 x 7.00 11.40 4.40 ~ 6.80 frame 0.96 x 0.96 0.92 ~ ~ ~
                     
Lumileds Luxeon V 4.00 x 4.00 5.66 2.70 0.50 3.60 ? ? ~ @ ~
                     
Luminus SST-40 4.95 x 4.95 7.00 2.4 0.60 4.52 1.99 x 1.99 3.99 @ @ ~
Luminus SST-50 9.00 x 7.30 11.60 4.30 0.75 5.60 2.25 x 2.25 5.00 @ ~ ~
Luminus SST 90 11.00 x 10.00 14.87 5.40 0.90 8.00 3.0 x 3.0 9.00 ~ ~ ~
Luminus SBT-70 11.00 x 10.00 14.87 1.54 0.68 8.92 frame 3.00r 7.00 ~ ~ ~
                     
Nichia 219A 3.50 x 3.50 4.95 2.00 0.40 2.90 ? ? ~ @  
Nichia 219B 3.50 x 3.50 4.95 2.00 0.40 2.90 1.48 x 1.48 2.20 ~ @ @
Nichia 219C 3.50 x 3.50 4.95 2.00 0.40 2.90 1.35 x 1.35 1.82 ~ @ @
Nichia 319AT 3.50 x 3.50 4.95 2.10 0.40 3.10 ? ? ~ ~ @
                     
Osram Oslon Flat Black 3.85 x 3.65 5.30 0.60 0.40 Flat 1.10 x 1.10 1.05 @ @  
                     
Samsung LH351A 3.50 x 3.50 4.95 1.89 0.70 2.69 ? ? @   ~
Samsung LH351B 3.50 x 3.50 4.95 1.93 0.43 3.22 ? ? ~ @  
Samsung LH351D 3.50 x 3.50 4.95 2.33 0.43 3.65 ? ? ~ ~ @
                     
~~~~~~LED.Name~~~~~ ~Package.Size~ Diagonal.Max Total.Height Substrate ~Dome.Dia~ ~Die.Size~mm~ ~Die.mm2~ Köf3.Tests Djozz.Tests TA.Tests

 

.

Edited by: CRX on 12/16/2017 - 06:42
The Miller
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Awesome, this should be stickied, hint hint Wink

CRX
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Maybe once it’s finished, if people help to fill it out Wink
This will be part of my LEDs & Other Stuff thread but should also prove useful as a standalone.

leaftye
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I suggest adding XB-D. We don’t use it in our flashlights, but many automotive lights use them.

The low mode should be lower.

Reviews: Efan IMR18350 700mAh 10.5A, <a href="http://

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Can you change the colors? I seriously can’t read that! Good dataset!

EDC rotation:
Convoy S2+, 6*7135, XM-L2 3D, 10 degree TIR, PilotDog lighted tailcap.
Convoy S2+, H17F, XM-L2 4C, lighted tailcap
Zebralight SC52w-L2
Olight S1A
Olight S1R

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Looks good CRX. Maybe include the voltage of the leds as well?

My current and or voltage measurements are only relevent to anything that I measure.

Budget light hobby proudly sponsored by my Mastercard and unknowingly paid for by a hard working wife. 

djozz said "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

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Hi all, I found this and seems interesting at least to me, but maybe the experts he can go further.

http://www.unistars.com.tw/download/1515_WH.pdf

Max

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Die size in mm² would be nice.

The Miller
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FlashMax wrote:
Hi all, I found this and seems interesting at least to me, but maybe the experts he can go further.

http://www.unistars.com.tw/download/1515_WH.pdf


1.5*1.5 LED
0.6*0.75 die
luminous flux 120/110 @350mA
3.3V
5000 and 5700K
djozz
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Nice project!

At least the XP-G die size is not correct yet, it is very close to 1.5 × 1.5 mm.

When I have time I will measure some leds for the table

link to djozz tests 

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Measured DIE-sizes of many well known LEDs can be found here (it's in German) and in other threads/posts of sma (he is also a member here on BLF). He even subtracts the area of the DIE where the Bond-Wires are.

Here are some interesting ones (all without dome):

Cree XR-E EZ1000: 0.92mm^2

Cree XR-E EZ900: 0.73mm^2

Cree XP-C: 0.44mm^2

Cree XML: 3.9mm^2

Cree XM-L2: 3.94mm^2

Cree MT-G2: 15.7mm^2

Cree XP-E2: 0.85mm^2

Cree XP-G2 (old 1st version 2012-2015): 1.66mm^2

Cree XP-G2 (2nd version, 2015, the ones that luminarium iculator likes so much): 2.18mm^2

Cree XP-L: 4.13mm^2

Cree XP-L HI: 3.67mm^2

Cree XHP-35 HI: 5.9mm^2

Nichia 219B: 2.2mm^2

Also some are easy to find elsewhere.

Luminus SST-50: 2.25mm x 2.25mm = 5mm^2

Luminus SST-90 & SBT-90: 3mm x3mm = 9mm^2

Luminus SBT-70: circular, 7mm^2

Luminus CBT-140: circular, 14mm^2

 

Some guesses from me:

Cree XHP-70: 4 x XP-L

Luminus CSM-360: 4 x 3mm x 3mm = 36mm^2 (largest power led array?)

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Didnt know that sst-90 is such that big
I always thought it’s same size of mt-g2

Forgot my pen

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mrheosuper wrote:
Didnt know that sst-90 is such that big I always thought it’s same size of mt-g2

The SST-90 ist much smaller than the MT-G2…

Agro
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So XP-L HI and HD have different dies?
Seems to contradict exactly the same voltage characteristic…

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Always looking for better information…

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Here are some of the SST-40 properties I could find. Still looking for die size though

Package Size: 4,95 × 4,95 mm
Diagonal Max: 7,00 mm
Total Height: 2,86 mm
Dome Diameter: 2,26 mm
Die size: ???

Source: http://www.luminus.com/products/Luminus_SST40W_Datasheet.pdf

Agro
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The SST-40 datasheet above actually specifies die size. It’s called “LED Emission Area” and it’s 4.0 mm.

Enderman
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Agro wrote:
The SST-40 datasheet above actually specifies die size. It’s called “LED Emission Area” and it’s 4.0 mm.

4mm squared.
The die size is 2mm x 2mm.
Agro
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CRX, could you add SST-40 to the first post?

CRX
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Yeah I’ve been meaning to update this.

Agro
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Using a picture from djozz:

Coupled with WebPlotDigitizer I calculate LH351D die size to be 2.166*2.166 mm or 4.69 mm².

ADDED:
Also, XHP35 HI was measured to be 5.32 mm² actually:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/58076
ADDED:
And Luxeon V is 6.43 mm²:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/58842

CRX
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Thanks mate.

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CRX, I was noticing some odd things concerning the xhp70, 70.2, 50 and 50.2 Die.mm2. or die area.

For instance, the 70.2 is just 4 x xml2 (I think) so the total surface area would be like in your old chart 15.68 mm^2. Why does you new chart show a much larger area of 31.52 mm^2?

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices 

Review Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light

CRX
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I keep meaning to come back to this to update it, I think I copied those numbers are from koef in this post. LES not die size probably.
“The total light emitting surface (LES) area of the XHP70.2 is 31.52 mm² (0.0489 sq in) in size. The four single dies are 7.88 mm² (0.0122 sq in) each.”

The_Driver
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Those numbers are probably with and without dome (half).

JasonWW
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The_Driver wrote:
Those numbers are probably with and without dome (half).

The xpl Hi, HD and xhp35 Hi, HD don’t show a huge difference.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices 

Review Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light

The_Driver
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JasonWW wrote:
The_Driver wrote:
Those numbers are probably with and without dome (half).
The xpl Hi, HD and xhp35 Hi, HD don’t show a huge difference.

The difference is basically the same for 99% of all standard LEDs. The dome doubles the apparent die size.

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The_Driver wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
The_Driver wrote:
Those numbers are probably with and without dome (half).
The xpl Hi, HD and xhp35 Hi, HD don’t show a huge difference.

The difference is basically the same for 99% of all standard LEDs. The dome doubles the apparent die size.


I believe the dome increases the apparent die size by about 50%, not 100%. Look at the examples I mentioned, there is no big increase at all, much less doubling.

Overall, you’re missing my point. The LES should not be on the chart. We want the actual die size like length times width. Perhaps another column can be made to show LES or the effects of the dome.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices 

Review Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light

CRX
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Noted Thumbs Up

The_Driver
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JasonWW wrote:
The_Driver wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
The_Driver wrote:
Those numbers are probably with and without dome (half).
The xpl Hi, HD and xhp35 Hi, HD don’t show a huge difference.

The difference is basically the same for 99% of all standard LEDs. The dome doubles the apparent die size.


I believe the dome increases the apparent die size by about 50%, not 100%. Look at the examples I mentioned, there is no big increase at all, much less doubling.

Overall, you’re missing my point. The LES should not be on the chart. We want the actual die size like length times width. Perhaps another column can be made to show LES or the effects of the dome.

Nope, definitely 100% (lets say 80-120%). This has been measured by multiple people, see here for many examples.

But I get your point. I was thinking about the pictures. Sorry. Smile The numbers in the chart are wrong for some of the larger Cree LEDs.

CRX
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Corrected values welcome too..

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