Extremum - 550 lumen from keychain flashlight

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ProjectOne
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Extremum - 550 lumen from keychain flashlight

Hi. We've built a usual keychain flashlight with an unusual feature - it's output is 550 lumens.




It has 3 level of brightness:






And a strobe light.
We want to ask your opinion - do you like the idea of powerful keychain flashlight with extra wide beam?

p.s. Soon we'll add video with real world comparisons with other flashlights

Jerommel
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Hi,
Is it a 10180 battery light?
550 Lumen sounds like fun ! Big Smile

Can you send me one to review it? Wink

Looking for:

5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

ProjectOne
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Yep, it’s a 10180 battery inside.

This is our second project on Kickstarter. Here is a link to the draft project:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1727819497/1059833774?token=07e02905

So right now we have only several prototypes. But we always produce what we promise.

You can check our first project and users reviews:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1727819497/cardlight-powerfull-flas...?

DavidEF
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Wow! Which cell do you use? Are they available sold separately somewhere? I’m very interested in a 10180 keychain light with 550lm output! Thanks for posting! Cash

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

ProjectOne
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10180 110 mah li-ion battery. It’s rather hard to find but nothing is impossible Wink

We’ll start crowdfunding campaign in a week (at least we hope to do that Big Smile ) and if you really want this project move from several prototypes to mass production we’ll ask you to support us.

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Just went to your draft page and watched the video. It has a tail switch!? This is truly a unique and awesome keychain light!

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

ProjectOne
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DavidEF wrote:
Just went to your draft page and watched the video. It has a tail switch!? This is truly a unique and awesome keychain light!

Yep! No idiotic screw-unscrew. We have dedicated micro controller inside, as you see. That’s how we’ve made strobe and mode selector.

By the way, what are your impressions from video? It’s not our strong side ;)) We’re better in manufacturing.

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The video was fun to watch. I particularly liked the “monster” light with arms reaching for the tiny keychain light. It might be a bit juvenile, but I don’t think that’s a problem. I’d rather you have some fun and not take yourselves too seriously. The video got the point across (to me anyway) that the tiny light is not to be under-estimated!

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

DavidEF
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I’ve a question about the “dedicated micro controller” you have there. Is that one of those purpose-built, non-programmable LED driver controllers? If so, you’d get more fans here by changing to some kind of programmable micro controller such as ATtiny or PIC. Look around this site a bit, and you’ll see that we love custom firmware, and we have several people here who write firmware for our drivers. You could grab a copy of ToyKeeper’s Biscotti driver firmware, and flash it to the minuscule ATtiny13a MMU chip, and sell many hundreds of your light here in a group buy. Look at some of our group buy projects to see the scale of what’s possible here. Your project needs $5000? You could get that in one group buy here. Wink

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
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The Miller
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550 lumens from a XML2 means ~1400mA
10180 rated 110mAh? Under this heavy abuse (how high do the temps get in the short period it works on 550 lumens?) how ong does it do 550 lumens and have you tried runnng the cell down like a 100 times to see how much of the 10mAh is left by then?

Did I see add $12 for a charger? what charger is that?

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The Miller wrote:
550 lumens from a XML2 means ~1400mA
10180 rated 110mAh? Under this heavy abuse (how high do the temps get in the short period it works on 550 lumens?) how ong does it do 550 lumens and have you tried runnng the cell down like a 100 times to see how much of the 10mAh is left by then?

Did I see add $12 for a charger? what charger is that?


The Miller, I don’t know about his cell, but I have some few years old 90mAH cells from Veleno Designs. I’ve had those putting out ~1500mA before, for a short burst, without getting hot! Wink

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
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ProjectOne
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DavidEF wrote:
I’ve a question about the “dedicated micro controller” you have there. Is that one of those purpose-built, non-programmable LED driver controllers? If so, you’d get more fans here by changing to some kind of programmable micro controller such as ATtiny or PIC. Look around this site a bit, and you’ll see that we love custom firmware, and we have several people here who write firmware for our drivers. You could grab a copy of ToyKeeper’s Biscotti driver firmware, and flash it to the minuscule ATtiny13a MMU chip, and sell many hundreds of your light here in a group buy. Look at some of our group buy projects to see the scale of what’s possible here. Your project needs $5000? You could get that in one group buy here. Wink

No, it’s our own controller, with our own firmware, on our own PCB. It isn’t compatible with other project.

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ProjectOne wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
I’ve a question about the “dedicated micro controller” you have there. Is that one of those purpose-built, non-programmable LED driver controllers? If so, you’d get more fans here by changing to some kind of programmable micro controller such as ATtiny or PIC. Look around this site a bit, and you’ll see that we love custom firmware, and we have several people here who write firmware for our drivers. You could grab a copy of ToyKeeper’s Biscotti driver firmware, and flash it to the minuscule ATtiny13a MMU chip, and sell many hundreds of your light here in a group buy. Look at some of our group buy projects to see the scale of what’s possible here. Your project needs $5000? You could get that in one group buy here. Wink

No, it’s our own controller, with our own firmware, on our own PCB. It isn’t compatible with other project.


Okay, that’s good to know! Thanks for the response! You could still do a group buy here and get well over your stated need of $5000, by the way.

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
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Charga
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I would buy one! Wink

' Lumen est omen '

Hope is no option!

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The Miller wrote:
550 lumens from a XML2 means ~1400mA
10180 rated 110mAh? Under this heavy abuse (how high do the temps get in the short period it works on 550 lumens?) how ong does it do 550 lumens and have you tried runnng the cell down like a 100 times to see how much of the 10mAh is left by then?

Did I see add $12 for a charger? what charger is that?

Hi. Good questions. Let me explain.
First – we need about 800 ma to drive XML2 to 550 lumens cause we’ve chosen a highest bin – U3.
3.7V*0,8A = ~ 3 watt (in fact we charge battery till 4.2V). Cree Xml-l2 U3 deliver about 150 lm @ 1 watt. But we have a focusing lens. So we refocus it’s from 170 degrees to about 80 and make bright almost uniform wide beem and add aditional lumens to the center spot. Please look at photos.

Second – led is mounted on thick aluminium pcb that works as a radiator (wtith a help of case of course).
Third – we’ve tried turbo mode till the discharge of a battery. It’s about 4.5 minutes of full pwer and ~ 3 minutes of still very bright light that is starting to fade. After 8 minutes it’s about 200 lumens left. 0-4.5 minutes is a full brightness. Highest temperature on the led during that experiment is 70 C while it is outdoors 25C

We tested cell 10 times and after that it has about 90% of life. We think after 20 sessions in turbo mode it’ll have only 50% of capacitance.
We’re honest about that – if you want such light from keychain you need to find a compromise.

p.s. Thanks for good technical questions!

p.p.s. We’ll show real world comparison and charger soon!

Charga
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But why not an U4 bin!?

' Lumen est omen '

Hope is no option!

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Eh… actually… according to CREE, you need ~1125mA to get 550lm out of XM-L2 U3. With losses in the lens, you’ll need probably close to ~1200mA to get 550lm out the front.

Did you test your light in an integrating sphere to see what the actual OTF light output is?

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
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ProjectOne
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Charga wrote:
But why not an U4 bin!?

Eh? When we started that project U3 was the highest we could find. U4 already exists? Wink

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DavidEF wrote:
Eh… actually… according to CREE, you need ~1125mA to get 550lm out of XM-L2 U3. With losses in the lens, you’ll need probably close to ~1200mA to get 550lm out the front.

Did you test your light in an integrating sphere to see what the actual OTF light output is?

But don’t forget that we re-focus 130 degree light in a much more narrow beam. Without the lens Xm-l2 is 130 degrees width , with lens and reflector – ~80. Yes, you loose output on lens, but earn on focusing peripheral light to center.

Charga
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' Lumen est omen '

Hope is no option!

zak.wilson
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U4 exists and is sold here in individual quantities. 1A is a very cool white tint around 6500K and not what most people around here prefer. I have one of these, dedomed (which warms up the color temperature considerably) in a Fenix TK61.

I suppose if you’re chasing numbers, you should probably go for this. You might get another 30 lumens out of it. I don’t find chasing numbers you need instruments to detect all that entertaining anymore and would rather have something with good tint and color rendering.

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Jerommel
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I agree.
But this would mean go for the XP footprint (3535) in stead of the XM footprint (5050) so you can reflow a nichia 219C on it, or a XP-L2 V6 for that matter (preferably 3A or 3D tint) if you want high output.

Looking for:

5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

-X3-
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ProjectOne wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
Eh… actually… according to CREE, you need ~1125mA to get 550lm out of XM-L2 U3. With losses in the lens, you’ll need probably close to ~1200mA to get 550lm out the front.

Did you test your light in an integrating sphere to see what the actual OTF light output is?

But don’t forget that we re-focus 130 degree light in a much more narrow beam. Without the lens Xm-l2 is 130 degrees width , with lens and reflector – ~80. Yes, you loose output on lens, but earn on focusing peripheral light to center.


I don’t want to sound judging, really, but it seems to me that you mixed up lumens and candelas…
Lumens are lumens, it’s a quantity of light…you can refocus as much as you want, 100 lumens will not jump to 200 lumens without feeding the LED with more current.
However, when you focus the light from 130 degrees to 80 degress, yes you are bumping the intensity of your beam, so candelas…

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Good project for kickstarter, not for blf.

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

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ProjectOne wrote:
But don’t forget that we re-focus 130 degree light in a much more narrow beam. Without the lens Xm-l2 is 130 degrees width , with lens and reflector – ~80. Yes, you loose output on lens, but earn on focusing peripheral light to center.

Seems that smb dont know the difference between lumen and lux. And also there are too many funny things in description:
ProjectOne wrote:
Cree XML-L2 U3 led – the most expensive and powerful 5mm led in the world
Precision electronic components mounted on aluminium PCB for heat dissipation.
Dedicated micro controller that is tracking battery voltage and temperature of LED to deliver light of constant power and prevent unit from overheating.
Highest grade electronic components. Everything, from Cree led to button is chosen to provide phenomenal result for such tiny size

In fact we see two cheap fr-4 xml boards with one 7135 based driver.

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

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Test video

Iso 800, F 3.5. All flashlights are in equal conditions.

ProjectOne
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kiriba-ru wrote:
In fact we see two cheap fr-4 xml boards with one 7135 based driver.

That’s a prototype. Serial units will be on aluminium pcbs. All pcbs on photos are our custom developments.

kiriba-ru
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So your developers decided to make xml footprint board for switch Facepalm

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

ProjectOne
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kiriba-ru wrote:
So your developers decided to make xml footprint board for switch Facepalm

That’s a prototype! We didn’t want to order additional boards for a button if xml board suits it fine.

p.s. Are all Hohols are so angry? Wink

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So at 800 mA XM-L2 U3 will produce about 350 lumens, correct? Not as impressive then, IMO. Still interesting

Just for a moment... Okay I may stay a little longer

ProjectOne
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WojtekimbieR wrote:

So at 800 mA XM-L2 U3 will produce about 350 lumens, correct? Not as impressive then, IMO. Still interesting

But then focused to a 80 degree almost uniform beam it’s still impressive (at least we think so) – look at video.
We can squeeze more lumens, but we want that flashlight to be usable. Not a one second toy.

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