Buck and Boost Drivers, Testing, Modding, and Discussion (Pic Heavy)

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zimpah
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Hey, so i’m new here, my first post in fact. I’m just wondering if this driver board (KX70) has a user manual, spec sheet, or if there is any documentation or explanation anywhere as far as using it. I am hoping the driver has some user configurable settings, like modes, power levels, voltage output, and such. But I can’t find anything anywhere.

Does anyone know if this driver has a menu system? Does anyone know how it works? Does anyone have the manual or a web link?

Thank you!

Ethan Zimmer
Zimmer Labs

Lacerta
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Hi everyone,

I am looking for a driver to (re)mod an older 2S 18650 flashlight.
Now it runs with a 6V XHP50.2 and an FX-17A buck driver. But I want to have more modes and 100% output current stability through the entire battery discharge interval. And I hate the mode group change indication blinking of the FX17A in low mode. Big Smile

So the big idea is to replace the 6V XHP50.2 to a 3V version, and install a higher output buck driver. P4000 would be an instant solution but the mode spacing sucks ( to me ).

Second idea is to install this driver: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32968062007.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0...

Runs form 2s/3s and supplies 4800mA max – but it is a 6V output driver. My knowledge of DC-DC converters says that basically possible to drive a 3V led from a 6V driver since the current is controlled. Of course the output ripple, the overall efficiency, etc. can/will change. But there can be other restrictions or protection functions of the circuit I don’t know about.
What do You think? Do You have IRL experiences of such builds? Or maybe any experiences with this triver?
[ Of course I asked the seller. Of course said that apocalypse will occurs if I try it. Big Smile )

Thank You in advance!

Goread Y-20 ( XHP50 mod ), UF-2220 ( XP-L2 mod ), Thorfire PF01S, Sofirn SP-10B, Manker E02H, Imalent HR20 ( XP-L2 & TIR mod ), Rofis R3, Skilhunt S3 Pro HD, Utorch UT01 ( XP-L2 mod ), Lumintop tool AAA ( XP-G3 mod )

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Lacerta wrote:
… P4000 would be an instant solution but the mode spacing sucks ( to me ).

Second idea is to install this driver: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32968062007.html

Runs form 2s/3s and supplies 4800mA max - but it is a 6V output driver. My knowledge of DC-DC converters says that basically possible to drive a 3V led from a 6V driver since the current is controlled. Of course the output ripple, the overall efficiency, etc. can/will change. But there can be other restrictions or protection functions of the circuit I don't know about.

You mean since the output voltage is precisely tuned to match the specified current flow, doesn't it?

Well, my answer is also yes, it should work well, but you may want to wait for some real electronics expert to chime in (just sent someone Innocent a request).

The Light Innocent I am

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I accidentally fitted a 3v XHP50.2 to a host with a 6v driver, I didnt even notice… it wasn’t till i went looking for the 3v emitter i realised my error… its still in there and it still works Facepalm

Lacerta
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Barkuti wrote:

Lacerta wrote:
… P4000 would be an instant solution but the mode spacing sucks ( to me ).

Second idea is to install this driver: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32968062007.html


Runs form 2s/3s and supplies 4800mA max – but it is a 6V output driver. My knowledge of DC-DC converters says that basically possible to drive a 3V led from a 6V driver since the current is controlled. Of course the output ripple, the overall efficiency, etc. can/will change. But there can be other restrictions or protection functions of the circuit I don’t know about.


You mean since the output voltage is precisely tuned to match the specified current flow, doesn’t it?


Well, my answer is also yes, it should work well, but you may want to wait for some real electronics expert to chime in (just sent someone Innocent a request).

Basically, but not exactly, yes. Big Smile
I mean that LED drivers ( well, correctly built led drivers ) are controlled by/for output current ( through sense resistor ). Actual voltage is only a consequence.
But there can be some safety functions on output like overvoltage protection ( not important for buck drivers ) or LED fault protection ( undervoltage / shortcut protection – not important again for buck drivers ).
Or maybe the current sense resistor is a high side type and the feedback pin of the controller can only work on a higher voltage interval.

Thanks!

Goread Y-20 ( XHP50 mod ), UF-2220 ( XP-L2 mod ), Thorfire PF01S, Sofirn SP-10B, Manker E02H, Imalent HR20 ( XP-L2 & TIR mod ), Rofis R3, Skilhunt S3 Pro HD, Utorch UT01 ( XP-L2 mod ), Lumintop tool AAA ( XP-G3 mod )

Lacerta
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The_Fat_Controller wrote:
I accidentally fitted a 3v XHP50.2 to a host with a 6v driver, I didnt even notice… it wasn’t till i went looking for the 3v emitter i realised my error… its still in there and it still works Facepalm
Big Smile Thumbs Up Could You tell me which driver was that?

Goread Y-20 ( XHP50 mod ), UF-2220 ( XP-L2 mod ), Thorfire PF01S, Sofirn SP-10B, Manker E02H, Imalent HR20 ( XP-L2 & TIR mod ), Rofis R3, Skilhunt S3 Pro HD, Utorch UT01 ( XP-L2 mod ), Lumintop tool AAA ( XP-G3 mod )

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Lacerta wrote:
The_Fat_Controller wrote:
I accidentally fitted a 3v XHP50.2 to a host with a 6v driver, I didnt even notice… it wasn’t till i went looking for the 3v emitter i realised my error… its still in there and it still works Facepalm
Big Smile Thumbs Up Could You tell me which driver was that?

What ever they use in These I removed 2 of the 4 stack of resistors to drop the output down to about 4amps, changed the lens for one with a much shorter FL then mistakenly fitted the 3v 50.2

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The_Fat_Controller wrote:
Lacerta wrote:
The_Fat_Controller wrote:
I accidentally fitted a 3v XHP50.2 to a host with a 6v driver, I didnt even notice… it wasn’t till i went looking for the 3v emitter i realised my error… its still in there and it still works Facepalm
Big Smile Thumbs Up Could You tell me which driver was that?

What ever they use in These I removed 2 of the 4 stack of resistors to drop the output down to about 4amps, changed the lens for one with a much shorter FL then mistakenly fitted the 3v 50.2

There are not many information available about the technical details of the lamp. Sick
Was there an old style toroid inductor driver in it, or a high frequency with a shielded SMD one?

Goread Y-20 ( XHP50 mod ), UF-2220 ( XP-L2 mod ), Thorfire PF01S, Sofirn SP-10B, Manker E02H, Imalent HR20 ( XP-L2 & TIR mod ), Rofis R3, Skilhunt S3 Pro HD, Utorch UT01 ( XP-L2 mod ), Lumintop tool AAA ( XP-G3 mod )

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It is toroid type, Its a pretty rubbish driver , just low & high with strobe. I just bought one to see what was actually in it..

I did see a 6v driver that looked sorta ok 4.5A

I only dropped the current to 4A in the other one because its thermal path is so terrible

The other one you Posted doesn’t look to bad either

There is not a huge selection sadly, Djozz posted a good test on the emitter XHP50.2 Lots of potential if you can actually power it right up

Lacerta
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The_Fat_Controller wrote:
It is toroid type, Its a pretty rubbish driver , just low & high with strobe. I just bought one to see what was actually in it..

I did see a 6v driver that looked sorta ok 4.5A

I only dropped the current to 4A in the other one because its thermal path is so terrible

The other one you Posted doesn’t look to bad either

There is not a huge selection sadly, Djozz posted a good test on the emitter XHP50.2 Lots of potential if you can actually power it right up

Yeah, toroid drivers generally runs on low frequency resulting terrible flickering. I experienced that.
The 4.5A You linked is a 2 group driver, like the one I want to replace. This one has higher current, though. But in the lowest mode it always blinks 1 time as waiting for group change command. Annoying.

I think I will make a try with the Manta Ray driver. In the worst case I flushed 9 bucks. Party

Goread Y-20 ( XHP50 mod ), UF-2220 ( XP-L2 mod ), Thorfire PF01S, Sofirn SP-10B, Manker E02H, Imalent HR20 ( XP-L2 & TIR mod ), Rofis R3, Skilhunt S3 Pro HD, Utorch UT01 ( XP-L2 mod ), Lumintop tool AAA ( XP-G3 mod )

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Lacerta][Quote wrote:
I think I will make a try with the Manta Ray driver. In the worst case I flushed 9 bucks. Party

Let me know how it goes, if they are any good i may grab one too.

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The_Fat_Controller wrote:

What ever they use in These I removed 2 of the 4 stack of resistors to drop the output down to about 4amps, changed the lens for one with a much shorter FL then mistakenly fitted the 3v 50.2

 

You bought this  terrible ignominy?

And you're saying I removed 2 of the 4 stack of resistors to drop the output down to about 4amps, are you serious? Because if so, the driver must be a big buck driver. 8 amps in a 2S buck driver is nice, could you please share photos of it? No rush, of course, but take the oportunity to reset the sense resistors (lower it even further LoL), a 3V XHP50 can take that. And we will see if the driver can take the heat. Wink

The Light Innocent I am

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Barkuti]<p>[quote wrote:

 


You bought this  terrible ignominy?

I know i am ashamed to admit it, I have tried to wash away the dirty feeling but it still lingers .. it was only 12 bucks….

I expected it to be terrible and it was worse. the beam pattern from its Fake Xhp70 will summon Bill gates if you shine it in the sky

I will strip it an get some current readings for you when i get a chance

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The_Fat_Controller wrote:
Barkuti wrote:

… 

You bought this  terrible ignominy?

I know i am ashamed to admit it, I have tried to wash away the dirty feeling but it still lingers .. it was only 12 bucks....

I expected it to be terrible and it was worse. the beam pattern from its Fake Xhp70 will summon Bill gates if you shine it in the sky

Can't be that bad, or  does it?

No need to feel ashamed or guilty for anything, its our creation so better learn from the experience.

I've taken a look at the video from the ad, looks like its long-necked so long stock focal lenght. Since you changed its lens now it must over-focus, doesn't it?

If the driver is good and the emitter is well heatsinked, it may be a good host after all.

But does it output 50K lumens? 

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Sure!

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Barkuti wrote:

Can’t be that bad, or  does it?


No need to feel ashamed or guilty for anything, its our creation so better learn from the experience.


I’ve taken a look at the video from the ad, looks like its long-necked so long stock focal lenght. Since you changed its lens now it must over-focus, doesn’t it?


If the driver is good and the emitter is well heatsinked, it may be a good host after all.


But does it output 50K lumens? 

Yes stock lens focus right at furthest point from emitter, with alternative lens prime focus is half way instead so a good 50% closer to emitter, but yes will over focus if you move it out to far, in all honesty with a genuine XHP50.2 fitted it puts out a reasonable amount of light

Heatsink is not great , the head is not connected to the body it slides forward/backward on the body so that large heatsink is basically just for show and does not aid cooling, the metal is quite thin even with current reduced to 4A it still heats up pretty fast

Perhaps 2k lumens is more truthful stock figure, the Fake XHP70’s do put out fair power

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Just came across these 7A Buck wonder if they are any good?

Also that manta Ray driver is available in Single cell as well

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The_Fat_Controller wrote:
Just came across these 7A Buck wonder if they are any good?

10% - 50% - 100% - strobe - SOS Facepalm Awful.

Gives me the creeps, and no need to say that ∅32 × 20mm is a lot of space for that kind of performance.

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Lacerta
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The_Fat_Controller][quote=Lacerta wrote:
Quote:
I think I will make a try with the Manta Ray driver. In the worst case I flushed 9 bucks. Party

Let me know how it goes, if they are any good i may grab one too.

The driver has arrived.
I made a quick test just before feedback the order.

It works well with 3V XHP50.2, although the coil tends to whine softly in high and turbo. To be honest, it was just a really quick test, I used a cheap adjustable buck power supply with quite long wires and crocodile clip connections, and it seemed that better clamping decreases the buzz. So the final installation can be better in terms of noise.

Goread Y-20 ( XHP50 mod ), UF-2220 ( XP-L2 mod ), Thorfire PF01S, Sofirn SP-10B, Manker E02H, Imalent HR20 ( XP-L2 & TIR mod ), Rofis R3, Skilhunt S3 Pro HD, Utorch UT01 ( XP-L2 mod ), Lumintop tool AAA ( XP-G3 mod )

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Lacerta wrote:
The_Fat_Controller wrote:
Lacerta wrote:

I think I will make a try with the Manta Ray driver. In the worst case I flushed 9 bucks. Party

Let me know how it goes, if they are any good i may grab one too.

The driver has arrived.
I made a quick test just before feedback the order.

It works well with 3V XHP50.2, …

Mmmkay but why 3V XHP50.2? You could drive a (2S) 6V emitter for double the power and higher efficiency. 

The Light Innocent I am

Lacerta
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Barkuti wrote:
Mmmkay but why 3V XHP50.2? You could drive a (2S) 6V emitter for double the power and higher efficiency. 

Because this is an XHP70.2 driver. On 6V output it burns the flashlight. Wink

Goread Y-20 ( XHP50 mod ), UF-2220 ( XP-L2 mod ), Thorfire PF01S, Sofirn SP-10B, Manker E02H, Imalent HR20 ( XP-L2 & TIR mod ), Rofis R3, Skilhunt S3 Pro HD, Utorch UT01 ( XP-L2 mod ), Lumintop tool AAA ( XP-G3 mod )

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Mmm, so you used the 1S/3V emitter hack because you intended to use the driver for long periods on high, isn't it Lacerta?

My 6V XHP50 ≈4A SK98 does good, but its heat path is enhanced and I certainly don't keep it on high for long periods and never out of my hands. On the other hand a triple Sofirn C8F on high with a mid-power 18650 will burn your hand way before its 2m 30s step down if you keep it tail standing. Wink 

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Barkuti wrote:

Mmm, so you used the 1S/3V emitter hack because you intended to use the driver for long periods on high, isn’t it Lacerta?


My 6V XHP50 ≈4A SK98 does good, but its heat path is enhanced and I certainly don’t keep it on high for long periods and never out of my hands. On the other hand a triple Sofirn C8F on high with a mid-power 18650 will burn your hand way before its 2m 30s step down if you keep it tail standing. Wink 

I am not a big fan of short lasting turbo levels. LOL
Basically the host can handle ~1500 lumens from an XHP50.2 continuously, so the high of this driver with ~1400lm is good, and the turbo is ~2000lm and can be activated separately. This one also have good mode spacing.
Moreover, 6V output buck drivers cannot hold constant current through the whole 2S battery capacity range in high levels, considering the 6V emitter Vf, the battery voltage, and the driver maximum output voltage ( which is ~Vin-0.3V in the best case ).

Goread Y-20 ( XHP50 mod ), UF-2220 ( XP-L2 mod ), Thorfire PF01S, Sofirn SP-10B, Manker E02H, Imalent HR20 ( XP-L2 & TIR mod ), Rofis R3, Skilhunt S3 Pro HD, Utorch UT01 ( XP-L2 mod ), Lumintop tool AAA ( XP-G3 mod )

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Lacerta][quote=The_Fat_Controller wrote:
Lacerta wrote:
Quote:
I think I will make a try with the Manta Ray driver. In the worst case I flushed 9 bucks. Party

Let me know how it goes, if they are any good i may grab one too.

The driver has arrived.
I made a quick test just before feedback the order.

It works well with 3V XHP50.2, although the coil tends to whine softly in high and turbo. To be honest, it was just a really quick test, I used a cheap adjustable buck power supply with quite long wires and crocodile clip connections, and it seemed that better clamping decreases the buzz. So the final installation can be better in terms of noise.

Finally I started to rebuild the host. And also I made some further tests with better wiring.

The first 3 levels are good. Input values are showing constant output values which are corresponding to the specs. With the 3V XH50.2 50mA, 150mA, and 750mA. For 6V led 100mA, 300mA and 1500mA is specified.

But at high and turbo level… The driver seems to get mad. Facepalm
The input current should be around ~1.6 and 2.4A.

But it’s 3.4A at high and 4.5A at turbo! And the inductor is whining like hell. Seems that the regulation is not working properly at higher levels at the increased Vin/Vout ratio. Crying

I wonder whether the replacement of the inductor would help this? Currently a 4.7uH is installed.

Goread Y-20 ( XHP50 mod ), UF-2220 ( XP-L2 mod ), Thorfire PF01S, Sofirn SP-10B, Manker E02H, Imalent HR20 ( XP-L2 & TIR mod ), Rofis R3, Skilhunt S3 Pro HD, Utorch UT01 ( XP-L2 mod ), Lumintop tool AAA ( XP-G3 mod )

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Lacerta wrote:

Finally I started to rebuild the host. And also I made some further tests with better wiring.

The first 3 levels are good. Input values are showing constant output values which are corresponding to the specs. With the 3V XH50.2 50mA, 150mA, and 750mA. For 6V led 100mA, 300mA and 1500mA is specified.

But at high and turbo level... The driver seems to get mad. Facepalm
The input current should be around ~1.6 and 2.4A.

But it's 3.4A at high and 4.5A at turbo! And the inductor is whining like hell. Seems that the regulation is not working properly at higher levels at the increased Vin/Vout ratio. Crying

I wonder whether the replacement of the inductor would help this? Currently a 4.7uH is installed.

Hello Lacerta,

This thread's been sleeping for a couple months, it would be helpful if you could recap a little bit better what you are trying to diagnose. This is, are you having trouble powering up an 1S emitter (confirmed) with a ∅22 mm Manta Ray buck driver?

You say the driver is pulling (input) ≈3.4 and ≈4.5 A in high and turbo? Could you measure the output figures? That would help to diagnose what is going on. That seems pretty weird but if the thing is really doing its job efficiently the output should be about twice the preceeding input figures (I presume it is being fed with 2S cells).

The inductor may require a swap for better driving 1S/3V emitters (higher inductance). I'm no expert in these matters so wait for some proper connoisseur to chime in. 

The Light Innocent I am

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Hi Barkuti,

Yes, that’s the exact driver.

I did not check the output values since the led base was soldered to the driver. But the led was very bright and dissipated very much heat very quickly.
Another interesting fact. Before this testing, I made another one. The led was also soldered to the driver, and the supply was delivered to the driver through crocodile clips. But the first case the clamping was less firm.
At that case, the input current was ~1.7A in the 4th level and there was no inductor buzz. It is a little high comparing to the expected 1.6A, but still OK. In turbo, the input current was ~3.2A and the inductor had audible whistling.

Previously, I experienced quite similar results when the led was clamped to the driver with crocodile clamps.
For me, it means that any factor which limits the current like wiring / contact resistance helps to eliminate / decrease the inrush.

It seems that the inductor core is saturating and that’s why the PWM controller cannot stabilize the output current. Since the duty cycle is lower than with 6V leds, the peak currents ( caused by higher voltage difference ) should be too high.
And that’s raise a dilemma!
To avoid saturation, a lower inductance needed ( assuming the same inductor size – it’s 1040 actually ). But it also furtherly increases peak currents. To lower peak currents, higher inductance is required. But higher inductance has lower saturation currents.

Of course, using a bigger size inductor is an option, and there’s place to install. The problem is here that there’s a huge selection of cheap 1040s to play with, but not from bigger sizes.

Goread Y-20 ( XHP50 mod ), UF-2220 ( XP-L2 mod ), Thorfire PF01S, Sofirn SP-10B, Manker E02H, Imalent HR20 ( XP-L2 & TIR mod ), Rofis R3, Skilhunt S3 Pro HD, Utorch UT01 ( XP-L2 mod ), Lumintop tool AAA ( XP-G3 mod )

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Wellp, as I said before I can't assess the optimization needs for that driver to operate nicely with slightly larger input to output voltage difference, although I can read and pinpoint some interesting tutorial/article like How to Choose the Right Inductor for DC-DC Buck Applications @ Passive Components Blog.

I bought some Murata FDA1254-H-4R7M (half an inch square, 4.7 µH, rated current Isat/Itemp: 11.2/10.2 A) inductors for a crazy mod project more than a year ago, do you think these would do the job any better? 

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No, I did not expect You to tell the Highest Wisdom. Innocent
Just talking about modding.

The working theoretics are clear for me, but the calculations are not easy since the major vast of required data is not available.
Though, it is clear that increasing the voltage difference between Vin and Vout reguires higher inductance value for the same ripple.

In the meantime I got remembered that I have some spare inductors in my loot trunk. Cool
And I’ve found some 4.7uH inductors and also some 10uHs. different sizes, different qualities. Some of them are Coilcrafts.
I removed the original inductor and will test the other ones. Big Smile

Thanks for the tips!

Goread Y-20 ( XHP50 mod ), UF-2220 ( XP-L2 mod ), Thorfire PF01S, Sofirn SP-10B, Manker E02H, Imalent HR20 ( XP-L2 & TIR mod ), Rofis R3, Skilhunt S3 Pro HD, Utorch UT01 ( XP-L2 mod ), Lumintop tool AAA ( XP-G3 mod )

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Looking more closely the stock inductor looks about ½" × ½" (more or less like the Murata I mentioned above) so, if its inductance is 4.7 µH, its current specs should be high enough. But of course, very possible it is that whoever is making these drivers may not be purchasing top spec inductors. Just a little bit more inductance should be fine.

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You might try the xal7070 series coilcraft inductors. I have used a few and never heard a whine.
https://www.coilcraft.com/xal7070.cfm
Has a low DCR so you should gain a little current without the whine.
The New XGL series looks interesting.

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