Buck and Boost Drivers, Testing, Modding, and Discussion (Pic Heavy)

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solRNY
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hi, i am using the KX70 32mm “6V” Boost driver in a courui d1 with a xhp50.2, powering from some good keeppower protected batteries, and notice often that something shuts down the flashlight in middle of using it. it would require me to remove the battery to restart it. it seems like the batteries are going short or something in the driver is failing, have you observed this?

Jensen567
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I have not experienced that on any of my samples no. What current is the protection rated for? The driver can pull up to 10 amps from the cells depending on output and charge level.

Barkuti
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solRNY, protection circuits are an additional hurdle which reduces a cell's discharge performance. Your protected KeepPowers are more than likely low drain cells with standard discharge protection circuitries, causing additional output voltage sag. The equivalent series resistance in one of those protected batteries is equal to the internal resistance of its low drain cell (high, above 50-60mΩ) plus the resistance of the probably two 8205A MOSFETs (close to 15mΩ) which switch the cell's cathode. This is very high and completely inadequate for even remotely close to high drain applications.

A high drain cell's internal resistance is generally well below 30mΩ. Mooch, the vaper's community reviewer, concluded that low drain cells are only worth it at up to half of its rated maximum discharge current (or so) versus the 2800-3000mAh high drainers. It can be argued that the test's cutoff value is very high (3.2V) and I agree, but anyway it serves as an enlightening reference: Which High Capacity 18650 is the Best? -- Shootout Bench Test Results @ E-CigaretteForum

 

V1 posted on Thu, 08/10/2017 - 15:17; redundancy typo fixed.

solRNY
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thanks for the battery education. I will use high drain unprotected cells.

Barkuti
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0K my technical fellows, just found this lost beauty (I hope): CF FX-17A 17mm 3V - 9V 2.2A 1 cell or 2 cells 2 Groups 3 to 5-Mode Driver Circuit Board @ Kaidomain

No relevant information found for the driver. My observations:

  • Reverse polarity protected. As Jensen567 explained in this same thread some messages ago for the H1-A, this means the driver innards' ground plane is isolated from the host, which is heat transfer detrimental.
  • Amount of modes and spacing: 5-40-100%, with optional strobe and SOS. Thumbs Up
  • Last used mode memory, 3 seconds. Thumbs Up
  • Stock output is 2.2A, sense resistor Facepalm 0.1Ω , 0.22V sense voltage. This is inefficient, a lot of power is lost here.
  • Height is listed as 8mm, spring excluded I believe.

Sheesh!

It's 17mm, but wrong in every other aspect. An LD-29 beats it hands down.

 

Cheers 

 

Jensen567
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I have a couple of those on the way already actually. Im guessing it is QX9920 based but will find out. Plan to use them in some converted mini-mag triples, so not going to push much current.

Barkuti
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Mmmkay fellows, finally found and opted for this “host” of my liking: ThorFire TA13 (Sofirn SF30?) questions

Excellent driver boot in there, doesn't it? It probably is the better zoomie flashlight for modding one can buy in that price range. Wink

Not gonna mod it straight yet, looks nice, no hurry. I'll buy parts as I can slip €urobucks for it, economy  is tight now so we'll see.

 

Cheers 

khas
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Barkuti wrote:

Mmmkay fellows, finally found and opted for this “host” of my liking: ThorFire TA13 (Sofirn SF30?) questions


Excellent driver boot in there, doesn’t it? It probably is the better zoomie flashlight for modding one can buy in that price range. Wink


Not gonna mod it straight yet, looks nice, no hurry. I’ll buy parts as I can slip €urobucks for it, economy  is tight now so we’ll see.


 


Cheers 

I have a Sofirn SF30A on the way from Aliexpress because of this tread on TLF, I have a “spare” driver from a Jaxman X1S I plan to use with a XHP35 HD.

Barkuti
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Thanks for the link, khas. I'd have preferred for those %@#@&$ not to “hide” the pictures.

Something is said about the led sitting 5mm “too low”, or the lens not being able to get close enough above the emitter, limiting flood. Don't know how do they solve that.

Mine isn't going to be fully modded “straight away”. As it comes from the warehouse I'll just put a dedomed emitter in it.

Do XHP35 HDs dedome well? 

 

Jensen567
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They probably dedome as well as XPL HD. Why not just go with XHP35 HI though?

Barkuti
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I'll probably go with an XHP35 in a near future, for now I'll just swap the stock XM-L2 with a dedomed XM-L2/XM-L, the stock driver isn't meant to handle high voltage emitters.

The XM-L I have is an old school emitter, produced maybe by the end of 2013, this means it can probably take some high current without blowing up.

However, I still have an old XHP70 M4 40H bought from Kaidomain… (still available on their “AliExpress branch”: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Cree-XHP70-M4-40H-4000K-Neutral-White-LED-1-Piece/708513_32683288528.html). Do you believe, Jensen567, we could reconfigure the H2-C output voltage range to start off from ≈5.xV? Should be feasible, isn't it? 

 

Cheers 

Jensen567
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Yes changing the output voltage on H2-C should be possible, that’s my next endeavor as I will probably need to do that for my scratch build anyway.

Barkuti
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I see the H2-C manages ≈2.5A in turbo at 12+V with ease and efficiency, at least as long as the input is 2S. How about stacking an R050 (or two R100s) in parallel with the stock ones? That would mean 3A for turbo, 2A after 60s stepdown. I'd just need a Sinkpad XHP70 6/12V MCPCB.

Mmm...

 

Cheers Party

Jensen567
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The thing I dislike about 12V XHP50/70 is that on all the DTP boards I have seen, the thermal pad is no longer isolated, and sits at the 6V midpoint of the series chain.

Jensen567
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Most lights have the battery negative connected to the flashlight body, so if the thermal pad is not isolated, and the board is DTP, we need to worry about isolating the MCPCB from the flashlight body which can be a pain.

Jensen567
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It can be alright if you use good isolated thermal pads (expensive), but won’t ever be as good as proper thermal paste or soldering. That’s why I don’t like running the XHP50 or XHP70 at 12V. Yes the problem of isolation can be solved, but there are very few benefits of running in 12V mode for flasglights so it makes it not worth it for me to worry about the isolation.

Barkuti
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I was to get one, but finally went the XHP35 way. In case anyone is interested: Sinkpad XHP70 21mm Copper 12V or 6V @ LEDDNA

Ordered from LEDDNA once, the shipment took more than a couple months to arrive home.

 

By the way, ordered an H2-C, an XHP35 HI C2 3000K CRI85+ (according to datasheet), and a 4-pack of high drain Aspire 18350 1100mAh cells. For the ThorFire TA13, right. Gonna be a handsome aspherical thrower.

I am to mount an additional R100 on the sense resistor stack. This means 2.25A on turbo stepdown to 1.5A. How much effective throw is to be expected from it fellows?

 

The_Driver
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What is the effective diameter of the lens?

Luminance measurements of an XHP-35 HI LED can be found here.

KawiBoy1428
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Ollie wrote:
Jensen567, If you have to isolate the MCPCB from the flashlight body, isn’t that a problem with thermal transfer? LED>MCPCB>heatsinking>flashlight body.

Ollie


You can use the 12v Sink Pad no isolation needed! Thumbs Up

KB1428 “Live Life WOT”

Jensen567
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Wasn’t aware a board like that existed. Adds some extra series resistance but probably not too bad. Thanks!

Jensen567
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So I somehow managed to break the UI on an H1-A today. One of the new ones I got yesterday from KD. I put it in an M2 quad host running 2S2P XPG3s.

Funny part is that this is the least modded driver I have, all I did to it was bypass the spring with solder braid, replace the stock output wires for 22AWG, and file the edge of the ground ring a little bit. Stock sense resistor and stock output voltage.

The boost converter is still working since the light turns on. I just only have one mode, which seems to be maybe 40% – 60% power. Definitely not full power as the light can run for a long time without getting hot.

I’ll pull it apart when I get a chance to investigate, for now it is at least a useable light.

JasonWW
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How is that copper braid bypass working for you?

I kept burning through it on my L6.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware, lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/54477

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! http://budgetlightforum.com/node/55746

6 NarsilM user videos https://www.youtube.com/user/JasonWW2000

Jensen567
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I’ve never had a problem with mine, but I run 2 pieces in parallel. (really just one piece folded in half)

JasonWW
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I tried that as well and it still burned through. It was only pulling 12 amps at the time. Now that I’m pulling 17 amps I switched to regular wire. So far so good.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware, lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/54477

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! http://budgetlightforum.com/node/55746

6 NarsilM user videos https://www.youtube.com/user/JasonWW2000

Jensen567
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So my driver fixed itself overnight. It didn’t work when I used it last night, it sat untouched on my desk for about 24 hours, just picked it up and it works fine now.

Jensen567
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Lol, very true, I still plan to take it back apart, for now it serves it’s purpose as my desk light though.

Cousin Elmer
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Jensen567 wrote:
1st up is the light engine I made for the new Desert Tan S2+ when I get it. MTG2 M0 4000K at 3.5A. In a Green S2+ for a test bed. Really cool to have an MTG2 on a single cell in an S2+. Pill is a stock pill with the driver pocket machined out. Reflector is a stock reflector with the emitter opening expanded by hand using a hobby knife.

Were you able to machine a shelf into the pill? The pill barely seems wide enough. FWIW an Eagle Eye A6 can also (with a little work) accommodate an H1-A and still use its retaining ring — which is a plus when it comes time to flash the driver.

I’ve managed to flash an H1-A with a home made programmer (based on a Raspberry Pi). I’m curious if the PICKIT programmers can use target power with the H1-A? In other words, is the 2.5V (or whatever the PIC is provided) enough for the PICKIT’s buffers to operate?

Cousin Elmer
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Jensen567 wrote:
So my driver fixed itself overnight. It didn’t work when I used it last night, it sat untouched on my desk for about 24 hours, just picked it up and it works fine now.

I’ve severely abused one H1-A in particular and it’s still alive and well.

Barkuti
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Got two ThorFire TA13s powered with H2-Cs and the aforementioned XHP35 HI C2 30G leds. Nice builds, I've decided not to ramp up the current, heck, emitters already reach ≈125°C on turbo (1.5A driving current, temperature measured directly in front of the emitter with infrared thermometer). Of course, the hosts get hot but still manageable (my friends don't exactly think so  but that's to be expected).

I also like the mode spacing: über-low, low, medium and turbo/high.

What I really like is its high efficiency when going 2S input to 4S emitter, this should result in being able to drive XHP70/XHP70.2s at a quite high amount of power (mounted in 12V DTP SinkPADs). Of course, just speculating… 

 

Jensen567
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The MP3428 chip on H2-C is rated for almost 20A input, the main letdown is the need for external rectifier FET and the poor board layout for the ground.

I have many more drivers on my bench right now including FX35 and a Kaidomain 25mm buck-boost. Just been busy with work and planning a wedding.

Also working with another member to get an MP3431 driver developed. 21A input current could be fun. Output voltage on MP3431 is well suited to both 12V and 6V also.

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