Which flashlight can run the most sustained lumens?

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SteveMidwest
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Which flashlight can run the most sustained lumens?

Is what prompted me to ask myself this recently, and all of BLF here now. Is that this ‘Turbo’ level, in relation to the second highest level, and high ANSI lumen run times. Is getting a bit out of wack in my mind. Recently for example, and what may have been the tipping point for me, personally? A prototype went out to be tested. Capable of producing 10,000lm. Which is easy enough done these days, but level #2 was then only 1200lm. That is a 8.33 to 1 ratio. So if we wanted a flashlight capable of running with say 3500lm, for 30 minutes. We would be out of luck, if purchasing the ’10,000lm’ flashlight in question.

Who does it best? The winner of this ‘competition’, is of course going to have to be a pretty big flashlight, with more importantly, some real decent fins on the thing, and some real BTU extraction capabilities. I want to do my part, in trying to put a focus back on this. I think we all want to keep this more in mind, as we move forward in the flashlight tech world. Otherwise you know what will happen. The flashlight manufacturers will soon be putting out 30,000lm lights, that will step down to 900lm, in about 30 seconds. Is that what we really want?

Let’s put ourselves in the shoes of a search and rescue worker for a moment, in the Mountains, on a Boat, Farm, or Ranch. Wherever. What are they expected to use in the future?

I love a lumen race as much as the next guy, and I have a nice 16,500-ish lumen flashlight that I really like. But after 9 minutes, it is really just a 3600-ish lumen flashlight, and that is with having it start out cool (room temperature), at the 9000lm level.

I am going to say now, and place here as a marker, for others to find a flashlight to beat it. The Acebeam K60. One of my top two favorite flashlights. With my experience of running and testing mine, along with selfbuilt’s very detailed and documented review. This flashlight can be started off at room temperature, at 4000lm, and it will stay there for over an hour. Until the light begins to dim, but only because the batteries are getting run down.

Who can find a flashlight that tops this? Is 4000lm the limit right now? Which flashlight is the sustained lumen King? Irrespective of battery count, throw or flood, or even emitter count. Who does sustained lumens best?

Edited by: SteveMidwest on 06/18/2017 - 19:18
patmurris
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The Q8 should be in the same range… But i don’t know if a runtime vs lumen test/graph has been done on one of the prototypes.
It’s basically the same category: 4 emiters vs a quad dies emitter and four 18650… for a fraction of the K60 price. It may not throw thas good though.

Thorfire S70S is not bad either.

tatasal
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My old Fenix TK70, running on 4 x D nimh cells can do its rated 2,200 Turbo mode until it drops down to High if the batteries slowly depletes.

Thanks for the info on the K60, I also have one but still in its box since it came out, never tested, but nice to know it can do the same thing Beer

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I think around 4k lumens sustained will be the top for a bit. It has a lot to do with heat. Most lights producing up and into the 16k range produce a ton of heat which is why they usually step down after a short time. This prevents thermal failure of the light and keeps the light from becoming a fancy paperweight. A large light like the Acebeam can keep the output because it has the mass to disapate the heat produced.

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Olight X6 maybe?

Has better cooling than all the regular “tube” flashlights, pretty sure it can keep the 5k lumens until the battery is out with no heat issues.

Hey, how are you? :)

SteveMidwest
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patmurris wrote:
The Q8 should be in the same range… But i don’t know if a runtime vs lumen test/graph has been done on one of the prototypes.
It’s basically the same category: 4 emiters vs a quad dies emitter and four 18650… for a fraction of the K60 price. It may not throw thas good though.

Thorfire S70S is not bad either.

I have lost track of just where the second higest level is going to be on the Q8 patmurris?
I know it won’t keep putting out 6,200lm until the batteries run down, but maybe it has a 4000lm level too? Not much for fins though.

I am keeping price out of this ‘competition’. Smile

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tatasal wrote:
My old Fenix TK70, running on 4 x D nimh cells can do its rated 2,200 Turbo mode until it drops down to High if the batteries slowly depletes.

Thanks for the info on the K60, I also have one but still in its box since it came out, never tested, but nice to know it can do the same thing Beer

Thank you tatasal, and keep looking. Yes, the K60 is one heck of a light. There has got to be one out there somewhere, maybe, that is a bit better though. Right? Cool

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tru3s1lv3r wrote:
I think around 4k lumens sustained will be the top for a bit. It has a lot to do with heat. Most lights producing up and into the 16k range produce a ton of heat which is why they usually step down after a short time. This prevents thermal failure of the light and keeps the light from becoming a fancy paperweight. A large light like the Acebeam can keep the output because it has the mass to disapate the heat produced.

All correct, and very good points tru3s1lv3r. Also the reason for me posting this thread. As I stated. It is going to have to be a fairly big flashlight, with some good fins, to beat this K60.

I have talked to over a dozen reviewers, in helping me with this research recently. All of them have tested all of their lights on Turbo, first. Then waited for the step-down, and in many cases, another step-down, and then kept track of that time. But after asking, if they had ever targeted a ‘middle’ mode, around the 3000-6000lm range (if the flashlight even had one. Which is getting more rare as well). Starting up the flashlight cold on that setting, and testing to see it it would keep up with that. All said no, but one. That they have not tried that yet. Some of the reviewers are even getting tilted, as far as I can tell. Innocent

So many heat the flashlight up first, with Turbo. Completely sinking in the heat. Then do no further testing. If remembering to do it, it has to be done after a complete cool-down.

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SteveMidwest wrote:
tatasal wrote:
My old Fenix TK70, running on 4 x D nimh cells can do its rated 2,200 Turbo mode until it drops down to High if the batteries slowly depletes.

Thanks for the info on the K60, I also have one but still in its box since it came out, never tested, but nice to know it can do the same thing Beer

Thank you tatasal, and keep looking. Yes, the K60 is one heck of a light. There has got to be one out there somewhere, maybe, that is a bit better though. Right? Cool

I don’t know if this other XHP70 beast can qualify in this search, no time to test though: Niwalker BK-FA02s

Inspired by this thread, got this light out of its box since it arrived after it came out to the market:

SteveMidwest
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A good find Enderman! Thumbs Up Though maybe cheating a bit. Big Smile

I will take that into account, though the battery compartment is separated from the main lamp.

That may be considered a drawback too though? Since the batteries, and their container/mass, are not able to help with the drawing out of the BTU’s, and helping to radiate that into the air.

In thermal imaging tests of flashlights, I can’t remember ever seeing the batteries getting hot on their own first, due to the draw, and putting any heat upwards, towards the head area either.

Enderman
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SteveMidwest wrote:
A good find Enderman! Thumbs Up Though maybe cheating a bit. Big Smile

I will take that into account, though the battery compartment is separated from the main lamp.

That may be considered a drawback too though? Since the batteries, and their container/mass, are not able to help with the drawing out of the BTU’s, and helping to radiate that into the air.

In thermal imaging tests of flashlights, I can’t remember ever seeing the batteries getting hot on their own first, due to the draw, and putting any heat upwards, towards the head area either.


The entire body of the flashlight is a heatsink with fins, this offers much better heat dissipation than any tube flashlight which has far less surface area.
Having batteries in the flashlight body to absorb heat makes far less difference to temperature than a real heatsink.
Batteries also do not dissipate any heat when inside a flashlight tube. It is an enclosed space with 0 airflow.
Having the batteries separate allows more space for heat dissipation and also lightens the flashlight since all that weight is not carried in your hand.

Hey, how are you? :)

SteveMidwest
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tatasal wrote:
SteveMidwest wrote:
tatasal wrote:
My old Fenix TK70, running on 4 x D nimh cells can do its rated 2,200 Turbo mode until it drops down to High if the batteries slowly depletes.

Thanks for the info on the K60, I also have one but still in its box since it came out, never tested, but nice to know it can do the same thing Beer

Thank you tatasal, and keep looking. Yes, the K60 is one heck of a light. There has got to be one out there somewhere, maybe, that is a bit better though. Right? Cool

I don’t know if this other XHP70 beast can qualify in this search, no time to test though: Niwalker BK-FA02s

!{width:70%}[img]http://i.imgur.com/nNpnvyi.jpg?1[/img]!

A good entry tatasal. daninho reviewed that light here on Sun, 11/06/2016 – 19:25.
Finding that only 4310lm could be gotten out of it on its highest mode, with the good keeppower 3400 batteries that were put in it. Then as you can see here > http://budgetlightforum.com/node/50459
The chart shows a steady decline, due to thermal regulation.

To win this, a flat line will be necessary. Cool

It could have been tested starting out in its second highest output level, for more runtime, but that would have only been level 4, at 1900lm. So really, in order to win this. We’ll have to find a flashlight that has a mode of around 4100-5000lm. To beat this K60.

tatasal
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SteveMidwest wrote:
tatasal wrote:
SteveMidwest wrote:
tatasal wrote:
My old Fenix TK70, running on 4 x D nimh cells can do its rated 2,200 Turbo mode until it drops down to High if the batteries slowly depletes.

Thanks for the info on the K60, I also have one but still in its box since it came out, never tested, but nice to know it can do the same thing Beer

Thank you tatasal, and keep looking. Yes, the K60 is one heck of a light. There has got to be one out there somewhere, maybe, that is a bit better though. Right? Cool

I don’t know if this other XHP70 beast can qualify in this search, no time to test though: Niwalker BK-FA02s

!{width:70%}[img]http://i.imgur.com/nNpnvyi.jpg?1[/img]!

A good entry tatasal. daninho reviewed that light here on Sun, 11/06/2016 – 19:25.
Finding that only 4310lm could be gotten out of it on its highest mode, with the good keeppower 3400 batteries that were put in it. Then as you can see here > http://budgetlightforum.com/node/50459
The chart shows a steady decline, due to thermal regulation.

To win this, a flat line will be necessary. Cool

It could have been tested starting out in its second highest output level, for more runtime, but that would have only been level 4, at 1900lm. So really, in order to win this. We’ll have to find a flashlight that has a mode of around 4100-5000lm. To beat this K60.

Oh, nice find of the review. Now I am more informed.

Well, in that case I find a gradual decline much better than the nowadays almost universal marketing hype of so much lumens only to step down so steeply. Facepalm

SteveMidwest
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Enderman wrote:
SteveMidwest wrote:
A good find Enderman! Thumbs Up Though maybe cheating a bit. Big Smile

I will take that into account, though the battery compartment is separated from the main lamp.

That may be considered a drawback too though? Since the batteries, and their container/mass, are not able to help with the drawing out of the BTU’s, and helping to radiate that into the air.

In thermal imaging tests of flashlights, I can’t remember ever seeing the batteries getting hot on their own first, due to the draw, and putting any heat upwards, towards the head area either.


The entire body of the flashlight is a heatsink with fins, this offers much better heat dissipation than any tube flashlight which has far less surface area.
Having batteries in the flashlight body to absorb heat makes far less difference to temperature than a real heatsink.
Batteries also do not dissipate any heat when inside a flashlight tube. It is an enclosed space with 0 airflow.
Having the batteries separate allows more space for heat dissipation and also lightens the flashlight since all that weight is not carried in your hand.

Very good, and all true Enderman, but you will have to admit. Leaving the batteries aside for a moment, and the air space they inhabit. Screwing on an additional 226 grams (Maker MK35 battery tube and cap as an example) of solid aluminum, onto that heat sink Olight X6 flashlight you are showing us here, is going to help some with heat dissipation. Thumbs Up

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SteveMidwest wrote:

Very good, and all true Enderman, but you will have to admit. Leaving the batteries aside for a moment, and the air space they inhabit. Screwing on an additional 226 grams (Maker MK35 battery tube and cap as an example) of solid aluminum, onto that heat sink Olight X6 flashlight you are showing us here, is going to help some with heat dissipation. Thumbs Up

Head dissipation does not depend on the amount of mass.
It depends on the heat dissipation due to surface area as well as heat conductivity of the material.
Simply adding more metal does not help, it just makes it heat up slower due to a large heat “reservoir”.
If you care about continuously running it for long amounts of time, it should have many large fins (like a CPU cooler) with decent spacing between them for air convection.

Hey, how are you? :)

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Enderman wrote:
SteveMidwest wrote:
Very good, and all true Enderman, but you will have to admit. Leaving the batteries aside for a moment, and the air space they inhabit. Screwing on an additional 226 grams (Maker MK35 battery tube and cap as an example) of solid aluminum, onto that heat sink Olight X6 flashlight you are showing us here, is going to help some with heat dissipation. Thumbs Up
Head dissipation does not depend on the amount of mass. It depends on the heat dissipation due to surface area as well as heat conductivity of the material. Simply adding more metal does not help, it just makes it heat up slower due to a large heat “reservoir”. If you care about continuously running it for long amounts of time, it should have many large fins (like a CPU cooler) with decent spacing between them for air convection.

You are again correct Enderman. Maybe I was not making myself clear?

In my mind, when adding that additional mass of 226 grams of aluminum, I was also adding it as a battery tube or container. That container also has a surface area. In this case, that surface area is an additional 220 sq/cm. So along with the mass, in my figuring, comes the additional surface area. Thus, additional cooling.

Well placed fins of course work better though, as you said. This additional surface is just that though. Added surface area. Not the most well placed, but surface area none the less, and helpful. In my OP, I stated: – “of course going to have to be a pretty big flashlight, with more importantly, some real decent fins on the thing, and some real BTU extraction capabilities.”

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Does it have to be LED?

HID torches and spotlights seem to fit this bill well. Thumbs Up

Wow! Such bright! Many collection! Very torch! Amaze.

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The RC40 handles heat very well, gets warm to hot but never too hot to hold i have found.

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Mass of course is key, the x65 has it in abundance……………but the xhp35 HI’s do not help! These i find run hot, or hotter than equivalent outputs with different LED’s with lower voltage.
The x65 can run around 5000lm till the 8 cells say no more………….gets toasty though compared to the rc40 at similar levels.

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SteveMidwest wrote:
In my mind, when adding that additional mass of 226 grams of aluminum, I was also adding it as a battery tube or container. That container also has a surface area. In this case, that surface area is an additional 220 sq/cm. So along with the mass, in my figuring, comes the additional surface area. Thus, additional cooling.

Not only is the battery tube very far away from the heat source (the LEDs) and therefore reducing the effectiveness of the surface area, but the cross-sectional area of the battery tube is very little, causing bad heat conductivity, AND 220sq/cm is nothing compared to the 1000+ from 10 heat fins 100mm in diameter.
And yes, the X6 has more than 10 heat fins.

ven wrote:
Mass of course is key

No, no it is not.
Mass does literally nothing for heat dissipation, it just stores heat.
Surface area is what matters.
Adding mass just makes it heat up slower, over time it will still reach a high temperature.

If you care about long continuous runtime at a lower temperature, then surface area, metal heat conductivity (copper is best), and airflow speed/temperature is what matters.

Hey, how are you? :)

ven
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Mass,size , metals used etc. All helps take heat away. When I hold an rc40 it has more mass, it can run longer than a light with less mass/size at similar outputs. Yes mass matters to me , larger the light with more heat sink works better than one with less mass/heat sinking.

So mass is important to me Smile

ven
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So having more surface area creates more mass, maybe my figure of speech is the issue.

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ven wrote:
So having more surface area creates more mass, maybe my figure of speech is the issue.

Maybe if all you use are the typical normal-shaped flashlights that would apply.
But no, depending on how you shape the metal you can have something with the same amount of mass and 100x the surface area.

Hey, how are you? :)

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But we are on a Flashlight forum, I am simply saying larger lights handle heat better (generally speaking) than smaller ones at same ouput levels. More mass/size/ heat fins to soak up heat then dissipate. Which I have found enough to sustain fairly high output levels for decent amounts of time.

Tk75 and K60 do not handle heat as well as a larger light like the rc40 at similar outputs.

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lux-rc FB1? Active cooling makes me suspect it may be no. 1

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Any regulated HID will surely work nicely!

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Off the top of my head, I’d say either the Trustfire TR-S700 or the Trustfire TR-J20. Love them both and can be used on HIGH mode as much as required.

Richie

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Richie086 wrote:
Off the top of my head, I’d say either the Trustfire TR-S700 or the Trustfire TR-J20. Love them both and can be use on HIGH mode as much as required.

!http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e309/Trek13/J12S7002_zps953f084f.jpg!


J20. Only light I can use in summer on high without overheating Love
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Box wrote:
Richie086 wrote:
Off the top of my head, I’d say either the Trustfire TR-S700 or the Trustfire TR-J20. Love them both and can be use on HIGH mode as much as required.

!http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e309/Trek13/J12S7002_zps953f084f.jpg!


J20. Only light I can use in summer on high without overheating Love
Thumbs Up

Richie

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ven wrote:
But we are on a Flashlight forum, I am simply saying larger lights handle heat better (generally speaking) than smaller ones at same ouput levels. More mass/size/ heat fins to soak up heat then dissipate. Which I have found enough to sustain fairly high output levels for decent amounts of time.

Tk75 and K60 do not handle heat as well as a larger light like the rc40 at similar outputs.


Flashlights, spotlights, searchlights, we talk about all of them here.
OP didn’t specify just tube flashlights or EDC or anything like that.

You don’t seem to understand that there are lights with different designs that aren’t your typical “battery tube with big head” and actually have better heat dissipation, higher output, higher price, etc.

Hey, how are you? :)

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Oh well, the op’s main beef is “what light can sustain the turbo or its highest level without stepping down and will only notch down due to battery depletion”.

How it can do it is not the issue and perhaps deserves another thread.

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