Q8 modding

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The Miller
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Q8 modding

Some parts and links to them:

Spings:
RMM’s Nickel Plated Springs
http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_81...

KD has the same springs:
http://kaidomain.com/p/S026963.DIY-Nickel-plated-Battery-Driver-Contact-...

You can buy 50 switches for ~$3 at Banggood
https://www.banggood.com/50pcs-4×4×2_5mm-Waterproof-Copper-Button-SMD-...

Oshpark PCBs for switch assembly
2 led
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/WyCndMlE (link is external)
4 led
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/rsgCjoXc (link is external)

Well a bit soon perhaps, but:

hank wrote:
Quote:
high CRI is a mod

Would those who got samples please start a modification thread, suggesting what’s going to be worth improving?
Maybe even show us what you can make of these things, to encourage the manufacturer to prepare to make them better and more profitable.

The “BLF Group Buy” is always going to be something like a “Version 0.9”

Hunting up the best mod parts could take some of the pressure off the waiting here.

And of course he design of an aftermarket ledboard, taking shape real good, thanks TheOnlyDocc:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/54758
Very nice to see colaboration all over again!

do note:

Texas_Ace wrote:
Not a whole lot to be changed really, the shelf / reflector / mcpcb mounting setup could be better but that obviously won’t be changing.

Dual mcpcb would be a massive improvement but once again not going to happen.

Switching to 4S cells and LED’s would allow you to use a buck driver that would improve efficiency, run time and even total output.

With said higher voltage you could swap to xhp35’s or xhp50.2’s. with up to 15k lumens. The 50.2’s could produce ~10k lumens for the same amount of heat that the current XP-L’s make ~6k lumens.

I doubt that we will see any of these come to life from thorfire though, they don’t seem that interested in enthusiast level light building.

The only real practical mod for the Q8 for most people will be swapping to 219C or high CRI XP-L2’s and bypassing the springs.

Next easiest will be an xhp35 conversion. After that if the xhp50 mcpcb is made that will be the only other real mod option for these lights.

djozz wrote:
My experience is that with every next BLF light there is less that can still be improved. Thinking of the Q8 there’s not much that you can do as a modder, the usual stuff like removing resistances, improving the heath path and upgrading the leds is already done (I think that the XP-L V6 3D is still the best led for the Q8, if you look for the best compromise of beam, tint, output and throw, but leds are always debatable). Real improvements would be stuff that is not easily modded: better quality reflector, AR-coated lens, well-implemented USB charging, a well designed lantern conversion. (my perfect addition would be a side-emitting warm white flood night light).

BUT BLF will BLF so I am sure nice things will come up Smile

MRsDNF wrote:
Driver diameter around 47.5mm, positive ring OD 31mm, ID20mm and from the driver shelf to the base of the ledge is 15mm.

39mm for the mounting hole spacing. They are 2.75mm holes for 2.5mm mounting screws.

Edited by: The Miller on 10/14/2017 - 14:58
The Miller
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What will be done most probably is changing the LEDs to high CRi leds I think

kiriba-ru
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Im going to make kit for meteor-style mod.

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

PBWilson
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I’m posting to keep me updated on this thread. Thanks for starting it.

As for now, the only modding I’ll do from the get go is comparing GA to VTC6 cells when the lights finally make it to my door.

Looking forward to some high cri 50.2s though. That one has me very interested.

goshdogit
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kiriba-ru wrote:
Im going to make kit for meteor-style mod.
Please tell us more! Big Smile
dekozn
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How easy (or hard) is to change the 4P setup to 2S2P or 4S setup? Do we need additional pieces or can we mod the existing host with just some soldering skills?

Modding the Q8 to an XHP50.2 might be kinda expensive in comparison to the cost of the flashlight. IDK but a decent driver might already cost half of the price of the Q8. With LEDs and MCPCB it will cost more then the Q8 it self. Don’t get me wrong I would really love a monster flooder, I have more use for it than I have for a thrower. But the the overall cost might be too much for me.

hank
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Thank you.

The Miller
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Welcome
Will quote the posts with baked Q8 lights later.

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To convert to 4s you would need a new driver, the TA46 multi-cell is already ready for this and I have used it in a few lights. The tailcap can be modded to work or you can order one of the tailcaps I made for this.

The process is not that hard but also not that simple. I would put it at an intermediate to maybe mildly advanced mod. No special tools are needed besides a drill but a bit more work needed then a basic emitter swap.

If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other. -- Voltaire (1764)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

Complete collection of all my LED tests

kiriba-ru
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goshdogit wrote:
kiriba-ru wrote:
Im going to make kit for meteor-style mod.
Please tell us more! Big Smile

Hard to say anything special when you dont have host on your hands.

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

Wildcat
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Driver. I dont like primitive direct-drive drivers and I plan to replace it to something more modern Smile

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High-cri 219b fans can use existing 46mm linear drivers.

Texas_Ace wrote:
To convert to 4s you would need a new driver, the TA46 multi-cell is already ready for this and I have used it in a few lights. The tailcap can be modded to work or you can order one of the tailcaps I made for this.

The process is not that hard but also not that simple. I would put it at an intermediate to maybe mildly advanced mod. No special tools are needed besides a drill but a bit more work needed then a basic emitter swap.


Are you sure that 4s or 2s2p mod is good idea? Parallel config is more safety and allows cell change to the touch in darkness. I dont think there is any difference between buck and boost driver self-cost.

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

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Wildcat wrote:
Driver. I dont like primitive direct-drive drivers and I plan to replace it to something more modern Smile

Auch this hurts a little Wink
hank
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> hurts a little

I hope not too much. You all creating the C8 have worked up a really good flashlight, that can’t incorporate everything.
It’s also, sounds like, going to be a really excellent platform for people who want to try variations on the design.

I’m from the old school that likes constant-brightness lights rather than ‘hotrod’ direct drive lights because those slowly get dimmer as battery voltage drops,
though I’m aware that shortens the total useful time the light will light up if the user isn’t smart enough to choose lower levels.

I recognize why the direct drivers are currently (heh) popular, and recognize that the “best of both worlds” driver designs are probably too complicated and pricey for manufacturers to use as default choice.

DavidEF
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kiriba-ru wrote:
High-cri 219b fans can use existing 46mm linear drivers.

Texas_Ace wrote:
To convert to 4s you would need a new driver, the TA46 multi-cell is already ready for this and I have used it in a few lights. The tailcap can be modded to work or you can order one of the tailcaps I made for this.

The process is not that hard but also not that simple. I would put it at an intermediate to maybe mildly advanced mod. No special tools are needed besides a drill but a bit more work needed then a basic emitter swap.


Are you sure that 4s or 2s2p mod is good idea? Parallel config is more safety and allows cell change to the touch in darkness. I dont think there is any difference between buck and boost driver self-cost.

2S or 4S mod is required for the higher voltage emitters. Agree, there’s no need to change the driver for ~3V LEDs.

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

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As time move forward BLF lights will catch up to the big brand lights that run the batteries in series for higher voltage.

The Q8 for example with no other changes except running the cells and LED’s in 4S would be able to use a fairly simple and cheap buck driver that would give constant current, higher efficiency and even higher output is desired. There is a reason the big brands run the cells in series for high powered lights, it is simply the better way of doing things.

If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other. -- Voltaire (1764)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

Complete collection of all my LED tests

DavidEF
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kiriba-ru wrote:
goshdogit wrote:
kiriba-ru wrote:
Im going to make kit for meteor-style mod.
Please tell us more! Big Smile

Hard to say anything special when you dont have host on your hands.

Possibly, he just doesn’t know what you mean by “meteor-style mod” as in the idea itself. Are you talking about a copper or aluminum spacer for TIR triples/quads or something else? I’m assuming the spacer is what you mean, since you’ve done those before.

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

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Texas_Ace wrote:
As time move forward BLF lights will catch up to the big brand lights that run the batteries in series for higher voltage.

The Q8 for example with no other changes except running the cells and LED’s in 4S would be able to use a fairly simple and cheap buck driver that would give constant current, higher efficiency and even higher output is desired. There is a reason the big brands run the cells in series for high powered lights, it is simply the better way of doing things.


And then Wildcat won’t have to complain that we’re using a primitive driver. Big Smile

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

hank
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> cells in series

I recall the observation elsewhere that even if you start with identical, perfectly matched cells, they’ll slowly become different as they’re repeatedly cycled.
Once they differ, even though they can be charged exactly the same when full, they’ll end up at different voltages when they’re drained, so one could get reversed.

Giving people lights with cells in series, you have to add the warning SB phrased so well in an earlier thread about battery charging:

Quote:
… please don’t blow yourself up or burn your house down …

The Q8 design is smart because parallel cells don’t build unbalanced cell risk into the design.

Yeah, it’s got the one-cell-overheat-on-turbo option for people who use it wrong, but nothing’s going to be fool-proof.

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try to make the world idiot proof and the world will come up with a better idiot….
Has it been discussed what could happen if one would put different cells at extremely different states of charge in the Q8?

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Running cells in series presents virtually no risks with a single discharge cycle such as in a flashlight.

The issue comes when you never remove them from the pack and charge them in series as well. In that case they most assuredly can become unbalanced (although much less then it is made out to be with quality cells). This is a non-issue for flashlights though since we remove them and charge them individually.

The only thing you need to do in the case of series cells is set the cutoff voltage slightly higher then you might otherwise with parallel cells (say a 3v cutoff instead of 2.8v if you really wanted a margin of safety from killing the cells).

Seeing as the big manufactures use almost exclusively cells in series, I am going to say that the benefits far outweigh the possible side effects. There is a reason they run them in series.

There is virtually zero fire hazard with series over parallel cells as long as the cells are installed properly and you can install fuses to prevent the worst case scenario.

If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other. -- Voltaire (1764)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT

Complete collection of all my LED tests

Wildcat
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The Miller wrote:
Wildcat wrote:
Driver. I dont like primitive direct-drive drivers and I plan to replace it to something more modern Smile
Auch this hurts a little Wink

Why?!

You wanted to make a photoflash in SRK body and you did it! Great job! And now I want to do a good flashlight in this body Smile

hank
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Be nice, now. A big Thank You for getting it to where, someday soon, it’ll be available to play with.

I’m hoping those who got the early samples may have already modded them and care to show their work.

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DavidEF wrote:

Possibly, he just doesn’t know what you mean by “meteor-style mod” as in the idea itself. Are you talking about a copper or aluminum spacer for TIR triples/quads or something else? I’m assuming the spacer is what you mean, since you’ve done those before.

Yes.

Just need to decide – four triples or three quads.

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

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DavidEF wrote:
kiriba-ru wrote:
I dont think there is any difference between buck and boost driver self-cost.

2S or 4S mod is required for the higher voltage emitters. Agree, there’s no need to change the driver for ~3V LEDs.

Please read one more time.
Parallel config is safe and well-known – one rear pcb with thick traces and 4 springs, one thick brass ring soldered to the driver and button top cells.
4S or 2S2P mod require springs from both sides, one contact plate should rotate, other should be fixed, this is not safety decision.

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

kiriba-ru
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Texas_Ace wrote:
As time move forward BLF lights will catch up to the big brand lights that run the batteries in series for higher voltage.

The Q8 for example with no other changes except running the cells and LED’s in 4S would be able to use a fairly simple and cheap buck driver that would give constant current, higher efficiency and even higher output is desired. There is a reason the big brands run the cells in series for high powered lights, it is simply the better way of doing things.


Big brand lights often have battery carrier.
Also
Texas_Ace wrote:

Be warned, these drivers will not be cheap, the parts alone add up to around $20-25 without the PCB. The PCB alone will cost about $15, so expect to pay $35-$40 for one of these drivers fully assembled.

I still dont see any difference in self-cost with boost drivers.

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

The Miller
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Wildcat wrote:
The Miller wrote:
Wildcat wrote:
Driver. I dont like primitive direct-drive drivers and I plan to replace it to something more modern Smile
Auch this hurts a little Wink

Why?!

You wanted to make a photoflash in SRK body and you did it! Great job! And now I want to do a good flashlight in this body Smile


Well Bistro and Narsil offer such wide setup options and easy too, not matched by any manufacturer, these feel like the most modern UIs

On highest modes less bright does not seem like an issue for high end lights might not get less bright because of voltage drop in cells, they too won’t sustain max brightness because of stepdown.

No choice in UI feels outdated IMHO
Habkng manufacturer decide when or at what temp stepdown is instead of user feels outdated IMHO
Whining PWM feels outdatelights

Used a little Olight the other day, nice regulated output till BAM darkness without warning, first thing popped in my head, “dang the Q8 would have stepped down as warning and I would have had several hours to a day of useful light” that a brand method felt outdated IMHO

As a kid I needed the full amount of cells get get toys running, that was a long time ago, being able to use a light with empty spaces where cells ought to go feels so nice.
And besides all can say how safe series is, when I joined it wasade clear extra care should be taken for series lights and the exploding lights are series lights.
On longer lights the cell at the head gets more heat and thus wears different over time, I swap each charging cycle, this of course is less of an issue with the cells next to each other.

DavidEF
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kiriba-ru wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
kiriba-ru wrote:
I dont think there is any difference between buck and boost driver self-cost.

2S or 4S mod is required for the higher voltage emitters. Agree, there’s no need to change the driver for ~3V LEDs.

Please read one more time.
Parallel config is safe and well-known – one rear pcb with thick traces and 4 springs, one thick brass ring soldered to the driver and button top cells.
4S or 2S2P mod require springs from both sides, one contact plate should rotate, other should be fixed, this is not safety decision.

Oops, you’re right, I missed that little word, boost somehow. It was right there all along. Sorry. Facepalm

Still, I’d say buck is better for one reason: it doesn’t strain the cells as much as boost, especially for high output. AFAIK, for cell strain, boost is the worst, then direct drive and/or linear, then buck the least.

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

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DavidEF wrote:

Still, I’d say buck is better for one reason: it doesn’t strain the cells as much as boost, especially for high output. AFAIK, for cell strain, boost is the worst, then direct drive and/or linear, then buck the least.

How do you all calculate this?
I(in)=I(out)xU(Vf)/U(Vcell)хE(driver eff.) (fixed)
With same eff., there is no difference.
In real world processes are not so simple and input power is not linear and have some “ripples” but both boost and buck have this effect.
Also, how boost can be worst, if peak current will be always lower than DD with same cells-leds?

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

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kiriba-ru wrote:
DavidEF wrote:

Still, I’d say buck is better for one reason: it doesn’t strain the cells as much as boost, especially for high output. AFAIK, for cell strain, boost is the worst, then direct drive and/or linear, then buck the least.

How do you all calculate this?
I(in)=E(driver eff.)xI(out)xU(Vf)/U(Vcell)
With same eff., there is no difference.
In real world processes are not so simple and input power is not linear and have some “ripples” but both boost and buck have this effect.
Also, how boost can be worst, if peak current will be always lower than DD with same cells-leds?

Well, maybe I don’t understand it well enough. But, I’d think that in converting voltage, the max current is also converted in the opposite direction. So, in a boost circuit, the max current to the emitter(s) is necessarily lower than the max current from the cell(s). For a buck circuit, it moves the other way. Since the voltage is being lowered from cell(s) to the emitter(s), the max current available to the emitter(s) is higher than the max from the cell(s). So, for any specific desired current draw at the emitter(s), a boost driver draws more from the cell(s) and a buck driver draws less.

As the cells deplete, the difference is even greater, as boost drivers have to convert harder, which works the cell(s) harder, at the same time that the cells themselves are getting weaker. Alternatively, buck drivers are actually working less the lower the input voltage goes. The cells have it easy the whole time, while the buck driver can keep the output to the emitter(s) in perfect regulation longer as well.

Like I said, I may not understand this well enough myself. Texas_Ace makes these statements all the time, though. Perhaps he can step in and explain this difference better than I can.

.
.

EDIT: Just wanted to address this last statement of yours as well.

Quote:
Also, how boost can be worst, if peak current will be always lower than DD with same cells-leds?

In the world I live in, boost is only needed when the cell voltage is too low for the emitter. So, to use the same cell/emitter combo, you would either have to drive the cell harder to keep the same current to the emitter, OR else drive the emitter less hard to keep cell drain the same as DD. There’s no way to keep the same input current as DD while also keeping the same output current as DD. Am I wrong?

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

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DavidEF wrote:

Well, maybe I don’t understand it well enough. But, I’d think that in converting voltage, the max current is also converted in the opposite direction. So, in a boost circuit, the max current to the emitter(s) is necessarily lower than the max current from the cell(s). For a buck circuit, it moves the other way. Since the voltage is being lowered from cell(s) to the emitter(s), the max current available to the emitter(s) is higher than the max from the cell(s). So, for any specific desired current draw at the emitter(s), a boost driver draws more from the cell(s) and a buck driver draws less.

As the cells deplete, the difference is even greater, as boost drivers have to convert harder, which works the cell(s) harder, at the same time that the cells themselves are getting weaker. Alternatively, buck drivers are actually working less the lower the input voltage goes. The cells have it easy the whole time, while the buck driver can keep the output to the emitter(s) in perfect regulation longer as well.


To have 80W output, you need 90W input (example).
Please show me difference between eating 90W of power with buck or boost drivers.

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

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