DIY Led lights for Motorcycles

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stormrider88
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DIY Led lights for Motorcycles

…Back with new questions:

I picked-up a voltage booster to test 6 x XPG3 (series)

The module is similar to this one:

For the power input, I used a battery pack @ 13.35V

The module was set to 16.8V (2.8V per led)

The 6 XPG3 light up but when I used the meter to check the current, the value slowly started to increase (proportionally to the heat, 390mA,400mA… )
(experience without heatsink, leds simply wired in series)

The module is not current regulated and is advertised at 2.5A max…

Is the led working temperature going to limit the maximum current consummation, or it will just continue to increase until the led or the module die?

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

( Plato)

-X3-
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You can’t fed LED with that, you need to regulate the current…
You need a driver like this one
I used it on my motorcycle with 2 XM-L2 on serie, and it’s used daily for more than a year now

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stormrider88
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Hello X3,

Yes, I know, they are not “led drivers“and I won’t put this on my bike. I just want to understand how those different modules react on prime time Ughh

I have 2 pieces of the Russian drivers that you use on your bike. I tried them with 3x xpg3 and 1× 219C in series, and damn! They get hot very fast !(leds get hot, not the driver…)

So, your two XML2 run around 1,2A per led? But the voltage from the driver should be around 14V will alternator (?) 1.2A @14v for a XML2 isn’t going to fry them?

Just curious, what kind of light (host) are you using with your XML2?

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

( Plato)

tjeret
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That is normal since you feed it by Constant Voltage, current will raise gradually until emitter temperature stabilize.

If you using an XL6009 based boost converter, you can use my method in my http://tjeret.blogspot.co.id/2017/04/step-up-xl6009-as-constant-current.... to modified to constant current (small current “only”, less than 0.5A and less than 10Watt output without heatsink)
Sorry it’s in local language, but you can use google translate

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stormrider88 wrote:
Hello X3,

Yes, I know, they are not “led drivers“and I won’t put this on my bike. I just want to understand how those different modules react on prime time Ughh

I have 2 pieces of the Russian drivers that you use on your bike. I tried them with 3x xpg3 and 1× 219C in series, and damn! They get hot very fast!

So, your two XML2 run around 1,2A per led? But the voltage from the driver should be around 14V will alternator (?) 1.2A @14v for a XML2 isn’t going to fry them?

Just curious, what kind of light (host) are you using with your XML2?


I don’t think you correctly understood how LED drivers work.
I feed the driver with 14V, yes but then the XM-L2 are in series so they both see 3A.
The driver is regulatying the current to 3A, and has to take the difference in voltage between VIN and VOUT to dissipate it (heat).
LED Vf is about 3,3V roughly, so 6,6V for 2 LEDs. So the driver has 14-6.6=7.4V to dissipate. That’s 7.4*3=22.2W of heat…
You don’t need anything more than the driver to wire your LEDs to your motorcycle, really.
The driver is specifically designed to accomodate the voltage spikes of an alternator (well, rectifier to be exact)

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Jensen567
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Since it is a switching regulator it won’t quite be as you describe X3. There will be an efficiency associated with the regulator, and the power the driver dissipates will be the losses, so say 85% efficiency at the 6.6V 3A output gives about 3.5W into the driver.

They do sell constant current adjustable regulators, I recommended one in the previous thread this was discussed in.

stormrider88
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Hi, Thanks for the link. That looks interesting for lower current… btw, I will check again the Baja S2 to get the reference of the component.

For the moment, what I have under my hand are:

- 2 × triple xpg3 3000k 90cri
- 2 × single nichia 219C 4000k 90cri

2 × Russian driver 2.4A (single mode)
2 x dc/dc step-down voltage + current regulated

I tried the 2.4A driver with the triple xpg3 in series but looks too bright/hot…

Also, I noticed that the driver has few smd resistors stacked on R1.

Should I unsolder 1 of them to reduce the current output, or rather keep them in order to run 2x xhp50?

As I have been told on the other thread, 3xpg will heat quite a lot compare to 1 xhp50 at the same lumens output (?)

Let’s say I use 2 XHP50 with this driver, how should I wire the led? I saw on cutter.com some 12V xhp50 90CRI… If I use 2 in parallel, each led will run at 1.2A? Is that correct? If both led are 12v, I wire them in parallel and if the led are configure at 6v, I should wire them in series? In all the case, 2.4A will be simply shared by the number of led I wire together, right?

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

( Plato)

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stormrider88:

  • When in parallel, the emitter stack shares the applied voltage. This means a current regulated driver sets the output voltage in a way that the output current matches its set value, but the actual current distribution between the emitters is dependent on their current/voltage curves and temperature. Corollary: for even current distribution among emitters in parallel it is critical to use same batch/type/bin emitters and to cool 'em evenly.
  • When in series, emitter stack gets the same current flow for each led, each one of 'em dropping their corresponding Vf. This means there's no problem if emitters are different or if cooling isn't even.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TCAM-LM2577-Automatic-Boost-Buck-Converter-4-35V-to-1-25-25V-CC-CV-Voltage-Regulator/32809513686.html

With these you can run all emitters in series; just use multiple pieces and tune each one to a handleable current level. Example: 3 × 0.8A. An advantage of this is that since your power supplies are in parallel, failure in one of them is just a minor inconvenience (some light output drop), vs total shutdown if using just one driver (which means call for assistance for most folks).

 

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tjeret
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stormrider88 wrote:
Hi, Thanks for the link. That looks interesting for lower current… btw, I will check again the Baja S2 to get the reference of the component.

For the moment, what I have under my hand are:

- 2 × triple xpg3 3000k 90cri
- 2 × single nichia 219C 4000k 90cri

2 × Russian driver 2.4A (single mode)
2 x dc/dc step-down voltage + current regulated

I tried the 2.4A driver with the triple xpg3 in series but looks too bright/hot…

Also, I noticed that the driver has few smd resistors stacked on R1.

Should I unsolder 1 of them to reduce the current output, or rather keep them in order to run 2x xhp50?

As I have been told on the other thread, 3xpg will heat quite a lot compare to 1 xhp50 at the same lumens output (?)

Let’s say I use 2 XHP50 with this driver, how should I wire the led? I saw on cutter.com some 12V xhp50 90CRI… If I use 2 in parallel, each led will run at 1.2A? Is that correct? If both led are 12v, I wire them in parallel and if the led are configure at 6v, I should wire them in series? In all the case, 2.4A will be simply shared by the number of led I wire together, right?

Already got marking, using photoshop trick
It is LT8316 on your Baja S2
It is a serious IC btw, they do not going cheap with component selection too Smile

The Russian driver that you bought is Buck or Step Down
QX5241 based to be precise

You need to give some voltage headroom about ~1.5V to make those circuit works properly
With 12.8Volt nominal input volt output maks is about 11V, so its not enough for 12V XHP50

Same when you parallel the emitter, the voltage will stay at 12V not half.

Yes you can remove those stacked resistor to make lesser output current, BUT i do not recommended.
It is a hysteristic based controller, if you want to less current you have to increase inductor value to keep the controller work at same frequency in theory
But you can try to remove one or two resistor, maybe it still work fine even not optimal in actual

Barkuti
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Led Driver Power Supply 250W 10A Dc Dc Boost Converter Constant Current Mobile O @ wikita*

Boost module, thus output voltage in a bike/car will at least be 15+V with a fully running engine. Suitable for 6S emitters, a single unit delivers full required power.

The XL6009 CC/CV modules are boost/buck, so they're more adaptable.

 

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stormrider88
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…Few modules in parallel is quite interesting, low heat, more secure too. I never thought about it > Thanks Barkuti!

As a great noob, I continue my super-scientific approach by testing stuff. Just now, I was looking at my ceiling and saw that:

Hey?.. Nice tint! 2700k 80CRI LOL

So, I unplugged it and simply connect it to my LifePO4 pack (13.5V) and WOW? It just works Smile I let it on for few minutes, it generates just a little heat…

So>>> did anybody use those led bulbs on motorcycle? What would be the contraindication to go that way? 2×2 of this bulb would provide 4×350 lumens (1400 lumens at low temperature and around 20w of consummation. Exactly what I need.

Nichia 219C 5000k 80cri vs Philips 2700k 80cri (philips’ are nearly amber tint! Perfect for fog light! CRI surprisingly nice too!)

Few more pictures,

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

( Plato)

stormrider88
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The driver is stable @14.5V No blinking or even a change in luminosity. 12.5V or 14.5V give the exact same luminosity.
There are 10 chips with dedicated reflectors.

If I want to get the same luminosity from the triple xpg3, the heat is much higher! I think it’s what Clemence explained last time >>> More leds at lower current vs single emitter push to its limit… Moreover the bulb can be integrated to the bike very easily. Some epoxy and the stuff is fully waterproof. More over? Just plug and play…

Did I miss something? Too easy to be true??

Directly wired to the battery during idle… Stable!

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

( Plato)

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Well, it seems you have to try it and come back in a few months to give us your impressions Smile
I would be concerned by the waterproof aspect though

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stormrider88
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X3 wrote:
Well, it seems you have to try it and come back in a few months to give us your impressions Smile I would be concerned by the waterproof aspect though

Yep! I will work with this plug-and-play bulb first and keep the Russian drivers on stand-by for some future project (XHPx spot lights…)

MR16 bulbs are quite compact, very easy to integreate to the bike.

Thanks everybody for the expert’s information Thumbs Up

Oh? Just found something similar… Seems that I am not the only one to “keep it easy”

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

( Plato)

stormrider88
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For those who are looking for tint comparison between 3000K and 2700K…
(Armytek Wizard warm white XML2 3000k 90CRI – Philips MR16 12V Led bulb 2700K 80CRI)

-Wizard on turbo mode (A?) , Philips led on 12-14V power source.

To my eyes, the Philips 12V bulb has no greenish tint compared to the single cree emitter. Even-dough the Philips bulb is warmer than the XML2 and rated @80CRI vs 90 for the cree, the color rendition of the XML2 is not as “accurate” as the Philips leds.

Last picture, with a 219C at 5000K (80CRI)

Smooth reflector H20, TIR Wizard, and multiple reflector on Philips bulb (quite similar to the wizard, or a triple carclo medium/spot)

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

( Plato)

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Stormrider, remind us again what you’re going to use the lights for. Is it for floody off-road use or a narrow focused high beam use?

Out of curiosity, what type of bike is it and where do you plan to mount the lights?

My Convoy L6 thread with Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil ramping firmware, lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/54477

stormrider88
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The warm light (like those 2700k bulb) are only suitable for some auxiliary fog or wide corning light (wider beam, short distance) They have their own specific optic (from 25 to 60 degrees) Fog lights should be fixed as low as possible on the bike to limit glaring.

For extra throw, I can integrate spot light to the headlight, or simply fix them on the handle bar (for better throw, XHP35, for more lumens, XHP50 or XHP70, but the 70 have less choice in optic/tir…)

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

( Plato)

stormrider88
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Before I test this led on my bike for longer run-time, could someone confirm me this:

To power the LEDs from an AC source, the current pass-through a rectifier (bridge?)

So, in my case, feeding a rectifier with AC or DC doesn’t affect the module output? Right? The bridge is simply not solicited and the direct current flow just through the rectifier without problem? Any ideas? I tried another “AC 12V” led bulb on the battery and it just behave normally. No flickering or overheat… Why those bulbs are not labelled AC and DC 12V compliant? Question

Edit: (found the answer…)

What happens when a dc current passed through a bridge rectifier?

The Bridge rectifier functions by orienting the passing AC in a such a way that the output current is always in a single direction, ie the alternation is cancelled out by passing the AC through a series of diodes. When a DC is passed through the same contraption, only two diodes are active as they may be in any one half cycle of the AC. The DC will pass through these two diodes only without the requirement of the other two.

So, nothing wrong to run AC rated led bulbs on DC source Smile

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

( Plato)

stormrider88
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>>> It will be waterproof Wink

First test on car park, (S2 with cornering lens, low beam) then 2 extra bulb… Good as fog light.


Those led bulbs are available in 5, 7 and 10W (included 3000k and 4000k @ 90CRI)…
The one on the picture are old stock (5W 2700K 80CRI) The lowest lumens. Not bad!

(14.18V on the meter included the cooling fan on at that time )

Good for day light visibility too…

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

( Plato)

stormrider88
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Usually, budget auxiliary lights run around 8-10W each. This bulb are 5W, so, low output especially at that colour temperature. On the other side, they run quite cool and can be trimmed to match compact holders like above. Some “specialists” may even boost the circuit + 20% and still keep the heat manageable.

Those bulbs are designed to stay on, for long hours continuously. Manufacturers play safe, and beside the 10W which compensate with an integrated fan, the size of MR16 bulbs does not allow large heatsink.

For more details, I found this link:

http://goughlui.com/2015/04/12/salvage-teardown-mr16-compatible-led-downlights/

4 rebels are used in the 10W unit, and the 7W has Cree xbd (no fan)

On my sample, there are 10 chips, not sure which model exactly… (factory dedomed ah ah)

(edit)

Philips also propose a “Expert Color” (tint snob’s version) MR16 (12V – 7,2W – 480 lumens – 0.8A – 10 degree spot lens) > rated at 97CRI)

Nearly 1000 lumens of 97CRI warm light per pair? Sounds good (20$ per bulb, plug&play)

“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

( Plato)