TK's Emisar D4 review

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ToyKeeper
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djozz wrote:
Test 4 looks like the best regulation, …

BTW, part of the difference between Test 3 and Test 4 was a cheap trick: The attiny85v has a thermal sensor and 10-bit ADC. So, I made it give me about 11 or 12 bits of precision. Big Smile
(it’s over-sampling and using noise to slightly increase the resolution… which may sound silly, but it improved the results so I’m keeping it that way)

Edness
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Just got my D4 (Nichia) in today. Here’s a size comparison with the ZL SC600w MKIII HI.

I measured 20.40a at the tail with vtc6…this thing is a hot rod!

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Thanks for the review and work on the F/W TK!

Seems like an awesome light that will blow the S41/E14 out of the water.

Just hope it will ship with 90+ CRI 5000K 219C as an option.

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Edness wrote:
I measured 20.40a at the tail with vtc6…this thing is a hot rod!

Thanks! I was wondering how many amps it pulled… I was guessing about 15A, so it’s even higher than expected. That works out to like 75W. I added this info to the review, since I don’t have tools to measure that many amps.

hIKARInoob
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^^^ A 75W incandescent bulb is actually pretty bright… Dang… Evil

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ToyKeeper wrote:

… and I don’t even have those fancy new Aspire cells yet. I’ll have to get some, when they’re slightly easier to obtain.

A german online-shop lists them for a reasonable price. Do you want me to send you two pieces ?

Regards,
Alex

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ToyKeeper wrote:
Edness wrote:
I measured 20.40a at the tail with vtc6…this thing is a hot rod!

Thanks! I was wondering how many amps it pulled… I was guessing about 15A, so it’s even higher than expected. That works out to like 75W. I added this info to the review, since I don’t have tools to measure that many amps.

The head of the light isn’t safe to handle after 10 seconds. I think I’ll use GA cells instead to get more runtime/less heat.

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Someone should make a light like this with a plastic or rubber cage round the head. The cage should be sufficient to prevent the user’s fingers from directly contacting the metal in the head, while having slits to allow heat to escape.

Getting too hot to touch in 10 seconds sounds a lot like my modded DQG Tiny III 18650 with FET driver. It became such a problem that I made an external finned aluminum heatsink. Even that didn’t solve the problem, but then I painted the heatsink with paint and super-glue and installed a new button cover made out of Sugru. The light still gets too hot to touch, but now takes more like a minute to get there instead of 10 seconds. The finish on the light looks awful though.

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Here’s a picture with the 18350 tube. It’s almost the same size as the 4sevens mini turbo mkii!

Measured it with Aspire 18350 and it pulled 13.7A. Impressive.

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Thank you TK for your nice and useful review! Thumbs Up I like the green one. Big Smile

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Lucy@66 wrote:
Thank you TK for your nice and useful review! Thumbs Up I like the green one. Big Smile

The road has led you to an interesting place — welcome to BLF!

It’s not often that anyone spends their first post on one of my threads. Smile

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After a couple minor tweaks, I tried a runtime test on turbo with a full 25R cell until LVP kicked in.

I had the thermal limit set to 45 C (ish) and pointed a fan at it the whole time. Output stayed fairly close to a stable level after the initial peak, but it actually got slightly brighter over time overall. I suspect this might be due to the cell voltage getting closer to the emitter Vf, so there may have been less heat. Toward the end it also becomes very clear that the thermal regulation is fighting against the typical direct-drive sag curve.

So… aside from being a little bumpy, thermal regulation seems to be working pretty well.

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Output is about 900lm with active cooling. Could you also measure output with out cooling?

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AlexLED wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:

… and I don’t even have those fancy new Aspire cells yet. I’ll have to get some, when they’re slightly easier to obtain.

A german online-shop lists them for a reasonable price. Do you want me to send you two pieces ?


It would be nice if you posted the link in here
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Test 5 looks great! And yes, a version minus fan cooling and plus hand cooling seems most realistic to me. And given the nature of this light (hotrod) I would not mind the thermal limit to be a bit over 50 degrees for some higher regulated output.

What kind of stable output are we looking at in test5 btw? My guess would be 600-ish lumen?

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Thanks for the fine review.

I prefer the size, tint, beam and UI of the Nichia D4 much more than any of the Manker, Astrolux or similar lights popular here. I rarely use them because the UI just isn’t simple enough for simple me.

Double-click the D4 and you will immediately see more light than you think possible from anything this size. Within seconds it will be too hot to hold.

But use the ramping, and, ah, you can get whatever level is perfect for you.

The Nichia tint and beam are just right for walking the dogs in the dark. The beam is floody and the tint seems neither too yellow or white — but just right.

I am using an unprotected 3500 mAh 18650 I purchased from ZebraLight. Lack of a clip is a nit as is the absence of more knurling. I added the deep carry pocket clip available from Richard for $1.10.

The 18650 body is small but large enough to comfortably hold. I passed on the 18350 body.

Darn good light — eager to see what’s next.

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AEDe wrote:
Output is about 900lm with active cooling. Could you also measure output with out cooling?

This active-cooling test was just a sanity check to make sure the regulation doesn’t do anything dumb. The 45 C limit was arbitrary. The thermal ceiling will be user-configurable, so you can change its stable output level by changing the temperature limit.

Most likely, the calibration procedure will be:

  • Fast-click 10 times from off, then hold the button on 11th click.
  • Light comes on at a low mode.
  • To disable thermal regulation (or set it to a very high temperature), let go of the button now. Otherwise, keep holding.
  • Light goes up to maximum.
  • Keep holding until the light feels hot.
  • Let go of the button to set the thermal ceiling.

Attiny85 chips use un-calibrated thermal sensors, so a factory default value will be inconsistent. It seems best for the default to err on the safe (low) side, with a config option so the user can set it to whatever they like.

AlexLED
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Agro wrote:
AlexLED wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:

… and I don’t even have those fancy new Aspire cells yet. I’ll have to get some, when they’re slightly easier to obtain.

A german online-shop lists them for a reasonable price. Do you want me to send you two pieces ?


It would be nice if you posted the link in “here”:http://budgetlightforum.com/node/54697

Done. Had been posted there already, though. Smile

Regards,
Alex

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Is there any word about 18500 tubes becoming available.?

Mt. Electronics for U.S. should be getting his order of Aspire 18350 soon,

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djozz wrote:
What kind of stable output are we looking at in test5 btw? My guess would be 600-ish lumen?

I’m not sure. I don’t trust the sensor on my phone to give me numbers which are accurate in an absolute sense… only relative output.

So, 600-ish seems like a decent estimate; I don’t have a better guess.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
djozz wrote:
What kind of stable output are we looking at in test5 btw? My guess would be 600-ish lumen?

I’m not sure. I don’t trust the sensor on my phone to give me numbers which are accurate in an absolute sense… only relative output.

So, 600-ish seems like a decent estimate; I don’t have a better guess.

Just a thought that occurred to me. Let’s say 600 lumens is what the light can output comfortably and with stability:

1 click from off = low
2 clicks from off = 600 ish lumen
3 clicks from off = FET turbo

Easy access to a nice high mode of 600 lumens, and slightly more effort is needed for the FET turbo, which is reaaally a burst mode. Just a thought, and certainly not a request.

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hIKARInoob 3 clicks …??.. Thumbs UpBeer

Edit: Beacon mode, would be nice if the light emitted was at a higher level or user defined like the M43, I know you don’t own one, but by holding down on switch will increase beacon light output and a much better brighter flash, maybe a slight bit more speed in between flashes also, counting the flashes in battery level is so perfect, but can’t for the life of me figure out the flashes for temp check, 10 degree Celsius per flash, starts when very hot hot at 4 flashes but as it cools will then start a second group of flashes like the bat check, so not understanding what each group represents, or why I am wondering about it actually, when it’s hot it is real hot and when it’s cool I can put it back in my pocket, no need to watch temp flashes I suppose, just there so had to look at it and try to understand.

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T18 wrote:
hIKARInoob 3 clicks …??.. Thumbs UpBeer

Yeah… I mean this light is just stupid bright that it gets too hot in, what 30 seconds or less? So this output is purely for wow or burst use. And that is perfectly fine, but personally I consider this output for my taste “outside regular use of flashlight”, so I wouldn’t mind if this output is only activated with additional effort so to speak. Especially because this is an EDC light. Maybe the idea is comparable to turbo and turbo max for the X7.
Surely people still prefer a single click to turbo for this light; to each his/her own of course.

T18 wrote:
…why I am wondering about it actually, when it’s hot it is real hot and when it’s cool I can put it back in my pocket, no need to watch temp flashes I suppose, just there so had to look at it and try to understand.

Reminds me of my smartphone telling me that it is raining today. And I’m like thankfully I have windows in my house, so I can look outside to see what the weather is like… Not really high tech… but it gets the job done…

T18
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Only issue I think with the 3 click idea is that it would then cause TK to have to adjust all the other clicks since 3 click now is bat check, but nice idea I think, could be double click from off to high then double click again to fet turbo ..?
T18
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hIKARInoob wrote:
T18 wrote:
hIKARInoob 3 clicks …??.. Thumbs UpBeer

Yeah… I mean this light is just stupid bright that it gets too hot in, what 30 seconds or less? So this output is purely for wow or burst use. And that is perfectly fine, but personally I consider this output for my taste “outside regular use of flashlight”, so I wouldn’t mind if this output is only activated with additional effort so to speak. Especially because this is an EDC light. Maybe the idea is comparable to turbo and turbo max for the X7.
Surely people still prefer a single click to turbo for this light; to each his/her own of course.

T18 wrote:
…why I am wondering about it actually, when it’s hot it is real hot and when it’s cool I can put it back in my pocket, no need to watch temp flashes I suppose, just there so had to look at it and try to understand.

Reminds me of my smartphone telling me that it is raining today. And I’m like thankfully I have windows in my house, so I can look outside to see what the whether is like… Not really high tech… but it gets the job done…


Ha Ha Ha, to funny, I know what your saying, phone tells me stupid things like that and makes me wonder why do I own this thing, my old flip phone worked just fine, until the phone company said I had to buy a new phone since my flip was so old it was the equivalent of the rotary dial phones, I liked them to.. ha ha,
I am not sure those phones are that smart but they are capable of scaring me sometimes, like how did this phone know that, and it wants me to turn on photo recognition, ha I don’t think so, making me paranoid now..
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T18 wrote:
Only issue I think with the 3 click idea is that it would then cause TK to have to adjust all the other clicks since 3 click now is bat check, but nice idea I think, could be double click from off to high then double click again to fet turbo ..?

Oh no no no, I don’t want anyone change anything because I said something: it’s just me thinking loud…
M43’s UI1 is also great for this light when it comes to press and hold for momentary turbo (no ramping then). That would work for me as well.

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I’m trying not to change much of Hank’s design, so I don’t think the click patterns will change. However, it might be feasible to make double-click toggle turbo instead of being a one-way trip.

Additionally, with mode memory you can set the brightness to whatever you want, and then it is a simple one-click on/off at that level.

Mode memory is not saved across battery changes. This means it needs a default value. The default could be moon, 10 lm, level 65 (100% on 7135 chip, 0% on FET), or something else. I’m thinking the 100% 7135 mode might be a good default, since it’d be nice to have a shortcut to the highest regulated level with no PWM. I measured it at 133 lm on mine. This level would be accessible at any time by loosening the tailcap, tightening it again, then clicking the button once. However, 10 lm might be nice too.

Sound like a plan?

BTW, the difficult thing about reading battery and temperature values is that “0” digits don’t get a blink. So, a temperature of 21 gets “blink blink pause blink”, while a value of 20 gets only “blink blink”. I intend to fix this by making zeroes give a very short blink instead of nothing.

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That thermal regulation looks really good! Great job TK!

T18
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Yes TK the temp reading was impossible for me to figure out even after taking a actual temp reading then attempting to figure blinks to the actual reading.
First mistake I think I made was an attempt to read the blinks from the point of extremely high temps and seemed rather pointless because of how fast this little light really does cool down, it cools very quickly and will give you blinks all over the place, it doesn’t seem to have set temp levels to give an accurate blink reading but seemed to me that would have been thought of but mine at times would either just kept blinking steadily when very hot but when cooled quite a bit there was continuous blinks of sets of four and light was just warm, a cold light is 9 blinks so not sure what that translates to assuming in Celsius, 9 °C or 48.2 °F.. doesn’t seem logical to me. ?

Edit: The Beacon mode is rather low,
I think the beacon light output must be set at 20% of max output and that seems way low to be very effective, it is also very slow and should be more like a flash if that’s possible, present light level is a good default level but it would be nice to have the ability to ramp up the beacons output to max if need be by just holding down the switch while in beacon mode like it is in the M43, Edit: Delete wrong info..
Glad your on the upgrade team TK but also means I will be buying more D4 lights with the improvements or drivers for change outs if available and then Hank will probably have the other D1S light about ready I hope.. Thanks for listening TK

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ToyKeeper wrote:
Sound like a plan?

Yes, I love it! (133 lm)
You make the best UI:s Thumbs Up

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