[Q] About Liitokala 35A (NCR18650GA based) and other battery tips

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Persechini
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[Q] About Liitokala 35A (NCR18650GA based) and other battery tips

It’s hard to get decent priced cells shipped to Brasil, but I’ve found that Liitokala’s Aliexpress shop does fulfill those requirements.

My questions are:

  • Are those really GA based cells?
  • Are they cut for the Concept 1 turbo (actual 10A constant discharge even protected) or should I go for an unprotected IMR?

Context:
I’m looking to buy a few 18650 batteries to use as my daily drivers (mostly S2+ and C8). I’m interested in the NCR18650GA for the high capacity + discharge capacity able to use with the Nitecore Concept 1, which I will use occasionally, plus a triple nichia that I will test with a FET+7135 driver. The FET I think I’ll ultimately switch for a 7135 driver with 3ish max amp because I’m aiming for it to be my camping light and I’m not huge on eating through multiple batteries per night.

If there are any advice on batteries that differ a lot from this, please don’t be shy about suggesting it Wink

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SoCalTiger
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I do not know if the Liitokala is really an NCR18650GA. However, the GA’s are only rated for 10A continuous which would not leave any headroom for use in the Concept 1. If you want to use a light capable of 10A continuous then you probably want an IMR. Another option is the Samsung 30Q which is rated for 15A continuous.

The GA would be fine in the S2+ and C8 though as long as you aren’t modding them to super high amps.

EasyB
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Does the concept 1 actually pull around 10A from the cell? In any case it won’t be a continuous 10A discharge so I think the GA would work fine. The flashlight would have to step down way before the cell temperature would get too high.

Edit: a triple nichia 219C will pull a lot more than 10A. This will not be continuous, either, and probably will not hurt the GA cell, but it would not be my first choice for a high current light like that.

Persechini
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The Concept 1 manual states that it needs an IMR battery OR a battery capable off more than 8A discharge to actually reach the 1800 lumens, otherwise it’s speced a little lower. My keeppower cells (based on ncr18650b) sometimes turn of while on turbo, sometimes don’t. My nitecore cell (which is supposed to also be ncr18650b) never shut down on me (diferences in the protection, maybe?), but all of them start stepping down from turbo in a matter of 2 or 3 seconds, reaching high mode in about 20 seconds.

The ncr18650ga seems like a good middle point between imr and my current cells, provided it will sustain turbo for more than a few seconds, and they are cheap enough in this store that I would by a few pieces. Otherwise, I would buy one keepower IMR for a bit more money and use my current cells for everything else

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Both a high discharge cell like an INR18650-30Q plus a good low-resistance quality switch (bypassed springs too) ensure maximum turbo for the Innocent shortest time if heat is not a problem (higher discharge rate = lesser battery life). 

 

Posted originally on: Thu, 07/27/2017 - 01:16; error fix.

Persechini
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Well, the concept of a cold night in Brasil is quite different than from the US/europe, so temperature is a problem, the flashlight will not be cooling that fast on the wind . The Concept 1 turbo is not meant to be on a lot, but 1 to 3 second bursts is kinda ridiculous. I checked ou the 30q and liked it better than the keeppower IMR I had in mind. Will not bypassing the sprints reduce the overall heat on a FET driver by reducing current or simply heat up other parts of the circuit?

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Barkuti
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Persechini wrote:
Well, the concept of a cold night in Brasil is quite different than from the US/europe, so temperature is a problem, Will not bypassing the sprints reduce the overall heat on a FET driver by reducing current or simply heat up other parts of the circuit?

Both in USA and EU there are very hot regions; where I live, for example.

Every bit of resistance counts in an unregulated flashlight. If you optimize the springs you'll reduce their resistance, which means the overall resistance gets reduced, resulting in higher current flow. What is more, as every bit drops an amount of voltage proportional to its resistance, you can understand reducing the resistance of a single piece will result in higher voltage drop in the remaining parts.

Recapping: less resistance = higher current = higher heat output.

I prefer regulated drivers. A powerful direct drive build needs careful assessment or you risk blowing things up.

 

Cheers Party

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Four weeks ago I searched at Gearbest for Button Top cells, because Banggood wasn’t able to deliver to Germany. Finally, I’ve ordered 4 pcs. of Liitokala Lii-35A and was hoping for GA’s. (https://www.gearbest.com/batteries/pp_677241.html?wid=21) I was planning to use them for the BLF Q8, because they supposed to be NCR18650GA and Gearbest sold them as “Button Top”. But- they are NOT (anymore?). The cells I’ve got early September are flat top, I can only use them in other lights. Fortunately, I was able to order at Banggood in the meantime and got 4 pcs. of 30Q with the transport box delivered. So I’m ready for the Q8, which is already shipped.

BOMBAY
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This site claims to be samsung INR18650-35e – http://www.liitokala.com.cn/productView.asp?id=430

I think yes, I have their flat top

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The Samsung INR18650-35E is the greatest of the “35s”, though I would hardly qualify it as a “33” (1C discharge down to 2.8V). 

 

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BOMBAY
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Thanks, my set is also 3300mAh
tested lii-35a is 3268mAh, 3287mAh, 3299mAh, 3345mAh (test with lii-500), resistance 25mR- 30mR

Persechini
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I just received my Lii-35A, and just like @Antenne posted, their top button is flush with the wrapping like the samsung 35E, and unlike images of the sanyo GA. Various pictures of the Lii-35A have them with the slightly raised button just like the GA, so I guess they switched it some point during productions, or maybe they are using a thicker isolating ring on the rewrap, who knows.

I would be nice to get a clarification from Liitokala. Nothing against the 35E, as they are very similar to the GA, but it would be nice to have a clear statement

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d_t_a
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Hmm. I’m also wondering about the LiitoKala Lii-35A, since this AliExpress seller also indicates that their Lii-35A is based on Sanyo NCR18650GA (similar to what GearBest indicates on their Lii-35A product page)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4PCS-100-Original-LiitoKala-Lii-35A-3-7V...

But as you mentioned, the LiitoKala official Lii-35A product page indicates it’s based on the Samsung INR18650-35E…

BOMBAY
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d_t_a wrote:
Hmm. I’m also wondering about the LiitoKala Lii-35A, since this AliExpress seller also indicates that their Lii-35A is based on Sanyo NCR18650GA (similar to what GearBest indicates on their Lii-35A product page)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4PCS-100-Original-LiitoKala-Lii-35A-3-7V...

But as you mentioned, the LiitoKala official Lii-35A product page indicates it’s based on the Samsung INR18650-35E…

I bought from him, it is not NCR18650GA

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BOMBAY wrote:
d_t_a wrote:
Hmm. I’m also wondering about the LiitoKala Lii-35A, since this AliExpress seller also indicates that their Lii-35A is based on Sanyo NCR18650GA (similar to what GearBest indicates on their Lii-35A product page)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4PCS-100-Original-LiitoKala-Lii-35A-3-7V...

But as you mentioned, the LiitoKala official Lii-35A product page indicates it’s based on the Samsung INR18650-35E…

I bought from him, it is not NCR18650GA


That’s interesting, I don’t think I’ve seen any report on Liitokala batteries being fake…
Persechini
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Not “fake” per se, but apparently using a different food quality cell than the one advertised. I tested them on my fet+1 and my concept 1 and they behave like the GA and 35E are expected to

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Agro
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Persechini wrote:
Not “fake” per se, but apparently using a different food quality cell than the one advertised. I tested them on my fet+1 and my concept 1 and they behave like the GA and 35E are expected to

If they say it’s GA, it shall be GA, otherwise it’s fake.
I know 35E is a good cell and quite similar to GA, but nevertheless different. It’s also a cheaper one, so a good deal on GA may not be a good deal on 35E.
Persechini
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So I got 2 different answers from 2 different emails (both listed on liitokala website)

Dear friend, Good day, the Lii-35A battery is made with Sanyo 35GA battery.
IS SAMSUNG 35E .

I think this confirms that they are using both cells to make their batteries as they are very similar in specs, and from the non-raised flat top on mine, I’m now sure they are 35Es. I just wish they were more clear on their AE shop in the item description

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Be careful! On AE “official” LiitoKala store are selling fakes named NCR18650GA 10A. I bought a few, they are not Sanyo, Samsung or Panasonic, some noname china quality, max current with FET 4pc Oslons on freshly charged batteries 6-7A on different examples, where original Sanyo gives 8,5-9A.

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China is now ripe with a new wave of inland battery OEMs. Now mix the following ingredients:  a (much) lower comparable unit cost, little available information about them outside of their borders and a government and/or culture which openly endorses deceptive practices. 

Already had a good deal of this stuff: Seems like I got a six-pack of counterfeit/fake Samsung ICR18650-30B cells :-/

There are fair dealers, of course, buy maybe with a more senseful pricing.

 

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I agree with Socal tiger and others. The Concept 1 should run on a Samsung 18650-30q or even slightly better the Sony 18650-VTC6. I have the Nitecore EC23 running a XHP-35 pretty hard and it runs noticeably brighter on a Sony VTC. This is true of my Skilhunt S3pro lights.
I have several Lii-32A and well as some 26650s and the are quality cells so I am not not knocking the Liitokalas. You just have to tailor the cell to the light.

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d_t_a
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martinoss88 wrote:
Be careful! On AE “official” LiitoKala store are selling fakes named NCR18650GA 10A. I bought a few, they are not Sanyo, Samsung or Panasonic, some noname china quality, max current with FET 4pc Oslons on freshly charged batteries 6-7A on different examples, where original Sanyo gives 8,5-9A. !{width:50%}https://image.ibb.co/nK1SFx/20180225_075957.jpg!

I understand the Lii-35A is supposed to be Samsung INR18650-35E, but that AE “official” Liitokala store’s product description does indicate NCR18650GA. I’ve bought a pack of 4pcs hoping them to be INR18650-35E (my order has a tracking number already but no tracking update yet, so I’m not sure it it’s shipped or not…)
Hopefully it is the 35E, but if as you said it is just some unknown clone, I hope it has at least similar capacity as the 35E..

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Any reason for you to not report these deceptive practices? Once the product is at your hands opening a dispute may take some time (if never done, maybe) but we need to prove AliExpress they're wrong in these matters, and quite unaware of actual vendor practices (or so it seems). 

I swear to God I'll win my case.

 

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I have already opened dispute with photos and argumentation, and seller answered me “Hello! Our products are 100% genuine shot. Buyers use such pictures illustrate our products fake What persuasion? Buyers have carefully read our product details when buying products. Believe that our products are 100% genuine. Please do not take such pictures to arbitrarily stir up this malicious dispute. Thank you!”.
Now i am waiting for administration to solve our dispute.

martinoss88
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Hooray! Finally i got decision from AE:

Also i saw a lot of different “liitokala original (direct, eth.) shop”‘s on AE, all of them looks provided by the same cheating chineese, who started his business from selling original batteries to make a good karma and opinions first, and after started to sell fake batteries but having certificates of origin from japan manufacturers. So be carefull and fight with that kind of shops!

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martinoss88 wrote:
Be careful! On AE "official" LiitoKala store are selling fakes named NCR18650GA 10A. I bought a few, they are not Sanyo, Samsung or Panasonic, some noname china quality…

martinoss88
, is this the store (217753) you refer to?: https://liitokalahongkong.aliexpress.com/store/217753

A link to it is found at the bottom of LiitoKala's chinese website: http://www.liitokala.com.cn

 I was told this a few days ago by a ForoLinternas user.

 

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yeap, the case is about shop you listed) So its a pity, it is official LiitoKala brand police and business model, and i loved Lii-101 charger so much(

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Thanks for confirming, martinoss88. I still love the LiitoKala stuff, and if we love 'em a bit of “help” is due.

At the bottom of the chinese LiitoKala website I see “LiitoKala Power Co.,LTD” which after a Google search leads me here: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1045132

I do not believe there's a very tight relationship between the brand name folks and all of these “official” whatevers. Here's a copy and paste of the contents found in the “Contact us” section:

 

ShenZhen LiitoKala Power Co.,LTD(ShenZhen charger factory)

Add: The 6F building 1,MaoBang industrial Area,No.8 Lingwu Industrial Road Junzibu, GuanLan Town,Baoan District,Shenzhen              City,Guangdong,518110,China

Contact: Ashley zhang

TEL: +86 13760394452

website: www.liitokala.com.cn

Email : sales@liitokala.com.cn

Office hours: (HK Time) Mon - Sat: 9:00am - 22:00pm

 

LiitoKala Power Co.,LTD(DongGuan battery factory)

Add: No.38 Changsheng Road, Tiantangwei, Fenggang Town, Dongguan City, Guangdong,523690,China

website: www.liitokala.com.cn

Contact: ZhangNi

TEL: +86 13760394452

Email and Skype : liitokala@126.com

Office hours: (HK Time) Mon - Sat: 9:00am - 22:00pm

 

HongKong LiitoKala Power Co.,LTD(Hong Kong office)

Add: room 01,21/F,Prosper Commercial Building,9 Yin Chong Street,KowLoon,H.K

website: www.liitokala.com.cn

Contact: Cherleen

TEL: +86 13760394452

Email : liitokala@126.com

Office hours: (HK Time) Mon - Sat: 9:00am - 22:00pm

 

It could be interesting for a line to be dropped to liitokala@126.com, to check what's going on.

 

martinoss88, would you mind sharing with us how did you won your dispute? How were you able to make them admit a “counterfeit” claim? Got help from Panasonic?

 

Cheers Smile

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Barkuti wrote:

martinoss88, would you mind sharing with us how did you won your dispute? How were you able to make them admit a “counterfeit” claim? Got help from Panasonic?

+1

Sorry for my bad English (gogole transtorla)

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martinoss88 wrote:
Be careful! On AE “official” LiitoKala store are selling fakes named NCR18650GA 10A. I bought a few, they are not Sanyo, Samsung or Panasonic, some noname china quality, max current with FET 4pc Oslons on freshly charged batteries 6-7A on different examples, where original Sanyo gives 8,5-9A.

I have the exact same issue, I ordered a few lii-35A a while ago and they have the 3 sided top that looks like samsung, but on a recent purchase I got the same 4 sided top you got (looks like LG, but who knows), with the additional worrying factor that the print on the wrapping is a bit blurry and smudged, indicating a different production line altogether. At this point, we have the same battery being declared as one cell, and being sold as at least 2 other different cells, which takes reliability on liitokala cells down a lot. I still haven’t tested the newer cells on my higher current flashlights, and still haven’t got my charger that can measure capacity, but the first batch, the one with the 3 sided top, at least drained to spec on the 10A range

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Sanyo :NCR18650GA 3500Mah 10A discharge LG : 18650MJ1 3500Mah 10A discharge
The Two Batteries are same spec ,IF u can buy the real one ,the Japana battery are better.

www.causintech.com:Pansonic Sanyo Sony LG Samsung Causin Batteries and Charger .Battery Pack.Battery Source.

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