Led4power.com : LD-4 CC linear drivers, ILC-0/1 illuminated tailcaps, optics, MOSX, copper DTP MCPCBs...

851 posts / 0 new
Last post
The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 19 min ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1238
Location: Germany

Do you have exact specifications for the thermal conductivity or thermal resistance of the insulating layer of the MosX PCBs?

1C3
Offline
Last seen: 23 hours 6 min ago
Joined: 03/30/2017 - 06:42
Posts: 77
Location: Italy

I filled my Jaxman M8 with Led4power’s components, led driver mcpcb tailswitch and springs too. link to pics . By now most of my collection has at least something from this store inside, a good testament to how much I like the stuff but I’m going to have to try to do something different in my next build not to let things get too boring Big Smile .

led4power
led4power's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 12/29/2012 - 09:48
Posts: 1046
Location: Croatia,EU

The_Driver wrote:
Do you have exact specifications for the thermal conductivity or thermal resistance of the insulating layer of the MosX PCBs?

I know dielectric thickness is 35um,dielectric conductivity is not specified directly, but based on some other numbers I calculated that it must be around 10W/mK. 

So it should be equivalent to ~160um of PbSn solder layer thickness (I calculated this before as 200 something um,but that calculation was wrong).

Most of DTP boards have that order of magnitude DTP pad height variation, so performance in theory should be DTP-like for most LEDs, to check this I will do some DTP vs mosX tests for several LEDs.

 

The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 19 min ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1238
Location: Germany

Thanks. The central solder pad of the Osram Black Flat has an area of 3.06mm2.

So the thermal resistance of the insulating layer when using the this LED is: 35μm / (10W/m*K * 3,06mm2) = 1,144°C/W

Add this to the 0.027°C/W of the aluminium PCB (1.6mm thick, 210W/mK) you get 1.171°C/W. 

With 22W (maximum measured by Köf3, can vary quite a bit, I assume 80% efficiency) it thus adds ~20.6°C to the temperature of the LED.  

Assuming perfectly even solder pad height a 20mm copper Sinkpad PCB would add less than 1°C (0,0147°C/W). 

 

So while you're PCBs are a great idea, I agree with you in not reccomending them specifically for the Black Flat (most people use this LED at close to maximum power). Does your supplier offer other insulation materials? 

led4power
led4power's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 12/29/2012 - 09:48
Posts: 1046
Location: Croatia,EU

I will test black flat also. Your calculations are correct, at extreme power densities even solder thickness and DTP pad flatness has great influence.

led4power
led4power's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 12/29/2012 - 09:48
Posts: 1046
Location: Croatia,EU

First test: XM-L2 (U4 bin probably) on DTP vs mosX

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 13815
Location: Amsterdam

^ looks like the same performance.

Was it the same led reflowed first on the DTP board and then on the mosX board? What happened at ‘FAIL’ ?

KawiBoy1428
KawiBoy1428's picture
Online
Last seen: 3 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 04/11/2014 - 18:05
Posts: 3137
Location: The Motor City

djozz wrote:
^ looks like the same performance.

Was it the same led reflowed first on the DTP board and then on the mosX board? What happened at ‘FAIL’ ?

POOF! Big Smile

KB1428 “Live Life WOT”

led4power
led4power's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 12/29/2012 - 09:48
Posts: 1046
Location: Croatia,EU

Two different LEDs from same tape, at 6A they died, I think this was known characteristic of XM-L2 U4 bin,besides extremely high Vf.

The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 19 min ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1238
Location: Germany

Nice, both PCBs are not limiting the performance. The Vfs are super high. They aren’t even good for 5A anymore.

KawiBoy1428
KawiBoy1428's picture
Online
Last seen: 3 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 04/11/2014 - 18:05
Posts: 3137
Location: The Motor City

led4power wrote:

Yes, this is 1S-4S variant of LD-B4 (1S only). Side switch will be available later, it’s  supports clicky switch for now.


Neven, when you come out with the e-switch driver, will you be able to use push button and e-switch like the LD2?

KB1428 “Live Life WOT”

led4power
led4power's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 12/29/2012 - 09:48
Posts: 1046
Location: Croatia,EU

There will be separated e-sw and t-sw options.

led4power
led4power's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 12/29/2012 - 09:48
Posts: 1046
Location: Croatia,EU

Added  soldered Luxeon Vs on various mosX boards, also variants without mosfet/NTC for direct replacement in many lights like Convoy triples and Emisar D4 quad :

https://led4power.com/product-category/leds/

 

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 15 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 18783
Location: Heart of Texas

All this good stuff, so little money left after Christmas! Facepalm

Dale

MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 2865
Location: Portugal
led4power wrote:

Added  soldered Luxeon Vs on various mosX boards, also variants without mosfet/NTC for direct replacement in many lights like Convoy triples and Emisar D4 quad :


https://led4power.com/product-category/leds/


 


I knew I should have waited some more time FacepalmBig Smile

But, I’m happy with my order, received today Wink
Thanks led4power!! Everything well packed and neat Cool

1C3
Offline
Last seen: 23 hours 6 min ago
Joined: 03/30/2017 - 06:42
Posts: 77
Location: Italy

I want to make a correction on something I’ve said in the past about thermal protection triggering too soon on my E2L.
Yesterday I rebuilt it with new leds and in the process I noticed because a crumb of dirt got under the mosled pcb during reassembly, the board wasn’t making good thermal contact on the side of the thermistor.
So that explains why thermal protection triggered almost instantly (always less than 15s), and the driver heat management was working as intended all this time Smile .
After a more careful reassembly it takes something above 30s at 9A before stepdown with factory settings, which is in line with what I had expected in the first place.
I also melted the lighted tailswitch Facepalm , but it’s not the switches fault, I think I might have damaged it during soldering of the spring as it always felt a bit too easy to click, and during a runtime test at 9A it just melted in place Tired

KawiBoy1428
KawiBoy1428's picture
Online
Last seen: 3 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 04/11/2014 - 18:05
Posts: 3137
Location: The Motor City

Wow how’d I miss these? Those silicone pads are sweet!WinkThumbs Up

KB1428 “Live Life WOT”

led4power
led4power's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 12/29/2012 - 09:48
Posts: 1046
Location: Croatia,EU

That's actually picture of aluminum spacer in pill, thin silicone pads go on top and bottom of spacer.

led4power
led4power's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 12/29/2012 - 09:48
Posts: 1046
Location: Croatia,EU

1C3 wrote:
I want to make a correction on something I've said in the past about thermal protection triggering too soon on my E2L. Yesterday I rebuilt it with new leds and in the process I noticed because a crumb of dirt got under the mosled pcb during reassembly, the board wasn't making good thermal contact on the side of the thermistor. So that explains why thermal protection triggered almost instantly (always less than 15s), and the driver heat management was working as intended all this time Smile . After a more careful reassembly it takes something above 30s at 9A before stepdown with factory settings, which is in line with what I had expected in the first place. I also melted the lighted tailswitch Facepalm , but it's not the switches fault, I think I might have damaged it during soldering of the spring as it always felt a bit too easy to click, and during a runtime test at 9A it just melted in place :TIRED:

 

That is good example why is good to have temp. sensor on MCPCB instead on driver PCB - in other case driver don't see that something is wrong with PCB contact and LED would probably de-solder itself together with  wires which would cause havoc inside of light.

OMTEN switches are unfortunately made from low melting point plastic, so soldering everything around switch is more challenging.

MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 2865
Location: Portugal
KawiBoy1428 wrote:
Wow how’d I miss these? Those silicone pads are sweet! WinkThumbs Up
led4power wrote:

That’s actually picture of aluminum spacer in pill, thin silicone pads go on top and bottom of spacer.

As led4power said, it is an aluminium spacer Wink I didn’t put the silicone pads as this was for “demonstration” purposes only, when the products arrived!
But this is top notch! Super well made Smile

BTW, I’m using one of the the Luxeon V (with pebbled TIR lens) …and, honestly, it is the best tint I ever seen!!! Honestly!
So thank you Wink I guess now I’ll have to try the triple with those leds FacepalmBig SmileCool

KawiBoy1428
KawiBoy1428's picture
Online
Last seen: 3 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 04/11/2014 - 18:05
Posts: 3137
Location: The Motor City

led4power wrote:

That’s actually picture of aluminum spacer in pill, thin silicone pads go on top and bottom of spacer.


Oh aluminum spacer?

Can you make silicone pads like this? Never liked hacking up the silicone cubes, never got them to fit precisely. I always thought there had to be something better! Wink

KB1428 “Live Life WOT”

led4power
led4power's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 12/29/2012 - 09:48
Posts: 1046
Location: Croatia,EU

This is how it should look assembled:

  

 

BTW, this only works for LD-A4 driver because mosfet is highest component.

Even better would be if Simon or Kiriba-ru can make solid pill with ~1.2mm depth (LD-A4 has 0.9-1.0mm height), in that case only one silicone sheet would be needed and thermal transfer would be better (but not by much).

 

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 13815
Location: Amsterdam
led4power wrote:
OMTEN switches are unfortunately made from low melting point plastic, so soldering everything around switch is more challenging.

When building up a switch assembly, I start with desoldering the switch, when everything is done (spring, bypass etc.) I resolder the switch in place, touching the solder with the iron as short as possible. And still, every third switch that I solder in is destroyed and has to be replaced.

led4power
led4power's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 12/29/2012 - 09:48
Posts: 1046
Location: Croatia,EU

I will probably offer ILC-0 with non-soldered switch for those reasons, so user can solder switch as last step.

kiriba-ru
kiriba-ru's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 min 54 sec ago
Joined: 01/17/2016 - 02:34
Posts: 1766
Location: Russia

led4power wrote:

Even better would be if Simon or Kiriba-ru can make solid pill with ~1.2mm depth (LD-A4 has 0.9-1.0mm height), in that case only one silicone sheet would be needed and thermal transfer would be better (but not by much).


 


Ok.
But I dont see brass reasonable material for pill.
Are you sure that single led is still popular option (in combination with your drivers)?
Another problem, I cant find spare retaining rings anymore. My custom rings are ways more expensive.

Need a vlogger for machine accessories reviews

contactcr
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 05/19/2017 - 18:52
Posts: 810
Location: US

What’s a good host for your quad luxeon mcpcb and drivers?

led4power
led4power's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 12/29/2012 - 09:48
Posts: 1046
Location: Croatia,EU

PCB is 20mm, driver is 17mm clicky switch,most people use spacer/kits like form kiriba-ru to fit all in commonly used hosts like convoy M1 etc.

kiriba-ru
kiriba-ru's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 min 54 sec ago
Joined: 01/17/2016 - 02:34
Posts: 1766
Location: Russia

But I dont make M1/M2/X5/VG10 sets anymore…

Need a vlogger for machine accessories reviews

led4power
led4power's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 12/29/2012 - 09:48
Posts: 1046
Location: Croatia,EU

Added  option with non-soldered switch:

led4power
led4power's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 12/29/2012 - 09:48
Posts: 1046
Location: Croatia,EU

XP-L V6 3D DTP (notcigon) vs mosX test:

 

Results are in table.

This was important/milestone test because a lot of popular single die LEDs come in 3535 footprint.

 

 

Pages