I filled my Jaxman M8 with Led4power’s components, led driver mcpcb tailswitch and springs too. link to pics . By now most of my collection has at least something from this store inside, a good testament to how much I like the stuff but I’m going to have to try to do something different in my next build not to let things get too boring .
Do you have exact specifications for the thermal conductivity or thermal resistance of the insulating layer of the MosX PCBs?
I know dielectric thickness is 35um,dielectric conductivity is not specified directly, but based on some other numbers I calculated that it must be around 10W/mK.
So it should be equivalent to ~160um of PbSn solder layer thickness (I calculated this before as 200 something um,but that calculation was wrong).
Most of DTP boards have that order of magnitude DTP pad height variation, so performance in theory should be DTP-like for most LEDs, to check this I will do some DTP vs mosX tests for several LEDs.
Thanks. The central solder pad of the Osram Black Flat has an area of 3.06mm2.
So the thermal resistance of the insulating layer when using this LED is: 35μm / (10W/m*K * 3,06mm2) = 1,144°C/W
Add this to the 0.027°C/W of the aluminium PCB (1.6mm thick, 210W/mK) you get 1.171°C/W.
With 22W (maximum measured by Köf3, can vary quite a bit, I assume 80% efficiency) it thus adds ~20.6°C to the temperature of the LED.
Assuming perfectly even solder pad height a 20mm copper Sinkpad PCB would add less than 1°C (0,0147°C/W).
So while you're PCBs are a great idea, I agree with you in not reccomending them specifically for the Black Flat (most people use this LED at close to maximum power). Does your supplier offer other insulation materials?
Added soldered Luxeon Vs on various mosX boards, also variants without mosfet/NTC for direct replacement in many lights like Convoy triples and Emisar D4 quad :
Added soldered Luxeon Vs on various mosX boards, also variants without mosfet/NTC for direct replacement in many lights like Convoy triples and Emisar D4 quad :
I want to make a correction on something I’ve said in the past about thermal protection triggering too soon on my E2L.
Yesterday I rebuilt it with new leds and in the process I noticed because a crumb of dirt got under the mosled pcb during reassembly, the board wasn’t making good thermal contact on the side of the thermistor.
So that explains why thermal protection triggered almost instantly (always less than 15s), and the driver heat management was working as intended all this time .
After a more careful reassembly it takes something above 30s at 9A before stepdown with factory settings, which is in line with what I had expected in the first place.
I also melted the lighted tailswitch , but it’s not the switches fault, I think I might have damaged it during soldering of the spring as it always felt a bit too easy to click, and during a runtime test at 9A it just melted in place
I want to make a correction on something I've said in the past about thermal protection triggering too soon on my E2L. Yesterday I rebuilt it with new leds and in the process I noticed because a crumb of dirt got under the mosled pcb during reassembly, the board wasn't making good thermal contact on the side of the thermistor. So that explains why thermal protection triggered almost instantly (always less than 15s), and the driver heat management was working as intended all this time . After a more careful reassembly it takes something above 30s at 9A before stepdown with factory settings, which is in line with what I had expected in the first place. I also melted the lighted tailswitch , but it's not the switches fault, I think I might have damaged it during soldering of the spring as it always felt a bit too easy to click, and during a runtime test at 9A it just melted in place :TIRED:
That is good example why is good to have temp. sensor on MCPCB instead on driver PCB - in other case driver don't see that something is wrong with PCB contact and LED would probably de-solder itself together with wires which would cause havoc inside of light.
OMTEN switches are unfortunately made from low melting point plastic, so soldering everything around switch is more challenging.
Wow how’d I miss these? Those silicone pads are sweet!
led4power wrote:
That’s actually picture of aluminum spacer in pill, thin silicone pads go on top and bottom of spacer.
As led4power said, it is an aluminium spacer I didn’t put the silicone pads as this was for “demonstration” purposes only, when the products arrived!
But this is top notch! Super well made
BTW, I’m using one of the the Luxeon V (with pebbled TIR lens) …and, honestly, it is the best tint I ever seen!!! Honestly!
So thank you I guess now I’ll have to try the triple with those leds
That’s actually picture of aluminum spacer in pill, thin silicone pads go on top and bottom of spacer.
Oh aluminum spacer?
Can you make silicone pads like this? Never liked hacking up the silicone cubes, never got them to fit precisely. I always thought there had to be something better!
BTW, this only works for LD-A4 driver because mosfet is highest component.
Even better would be if Simon or Kiriba-ru can make solid pill with ~1.2mm depth (LD-A4 has 0.9-1.0mm height), in that case only one silicone sheet would be needed and thermal transfer would be better (but not by much).
OMTEN switches are unfortunately made from low melting point plastic, so soldering everything around switch is more challenging.
When building up a switch assembly, I start with desoldering the switch, when everything is done (spring, bypass etc.) I resolder the switch in place, touching the solder with the iron as short as possible. And still, every third switch that I solder in is destroyed and has to be replaced.
Even better would be if Simon or Kiriba-ru can make solid pill with ~1.2mm depth (LD-A4 has 0.9-1.0mm height), in that case only one silicone sheet would be needed and thermal transfer would be better (but not by much).
Ok.
But I dont see brass reasonable material for pill.
Are you sure that single led is still popular option (in combination with your drivers)?
Another problem, I cant find spare retaining rings anymore. My custom rings are ways more expensive.
Do you have exact specifications for the thermal conductivity or thermal resistance of the insulating layer of the MosX PCBs?
Project Excalibur - Next Generation LED Thrower (UPDATE 2018-01-15: 1.7Mcd)
Portable Thrower Comparison
I filled my Jaxman M8 with Led4power’s components, led driver mcpcb tailswitch and springs too. link to pics . By now most of my collection has at least something from this store inside, a good testament to how much I like the stuff but I’m going to have to try to do something different in my next build not to let things get too boring
.
I know dielectric thickness is 35um,dielectric conductivity is not specified directly, but based on some other numbers I calculated that it must be around 10W/mK.
So it should be equivalent to ~160um of PbSn solder layer thickness (I calculated this before as 200 something um,but that calculation was wrong).
Most of DTP boards have that order of magnitude DTP pad height variation, so performance in theory should be DTP-like for most LEDs, to check this I will do some DTP vs mosX tests for several LEDs.
led4power.com
Thanks. The central solder pad of the Osram Black Flat has an area of 3.06mm2.
So the thermal resistance of the insulating layer when using this LED is: 35μm / (10W/m*K * 3,06mm2) = 1,144°C/W
Add this to the 0.027°C/W of the aluminium PCB (1.6mm thick, 210W/mK) you get 1.171°C/W.
With 22W (maximum measured by Köf3, can vary quite a bit, I assume 80% efficiency) it thus adds ~20.6°C to the temperature of the LED.
Assuming perfectly even solder pad height a 20mm copper Sinkpad PCB would add less than 1°C (0,0147°C/W).
So while you're PCBs are a great idea, I agree with you in not reccomending them specifically for the Black Flat (most people use this LED at close to maximum power). Does your supplier offer other insulation materials?
Project Excalibur - Next Generation LED Thrower (UPDATE 2018-01-15: 1.7Mcd)
Portable Thrower Comparison
I will test black flat also. Your calculations are correct, at extreme power densities even solder thickness and DTP pad flatness has great influence.
led4power.com
First test: XM-L2 (U4 bin probably) on DTP vs mosX
led4power.com
^ looks like the same performance.
Was it the same led reflowed first on the DTP board and then on the mosX board? What happened at ‘FAIL’ ?
link to djozz tests
KB1428 “Live Life WOT”
Two different LEDs from same tape, at 6A they died, I think this was known characteristic of XM-L2 U4 bin,besides extremely high Vf.
led4power.com
Nice, both PCBs are not limiting the performance. The Vfs are super high. They aren’t even good for 5A anymore.
Project Excalibur - Next Generation LED Thrower (UPDATE 2018-01-15: 1.7Mcd)
Portable Thrower Comparison
Neven, when you come out with the e-switch driver, will you be able to use push button and e-switch like the LD2?
KB1428 “Live Life WOT”
There will be separated e-sw and t-sw options.
led4power.com
Added soldered Luxeon Vs on various mosX boards, also variants without mosfet/NTC for direct replacement in many lights like Convoy triples and Emisar D4 quad :
https://led4power.com/product-category/leds/
led4power.com
All this good stuff, so little money left after Christmas!
I knew I should have waited some more time
But, I’m happy with my order, received today
Thanks led4power!! Everything well packed and neat
[REVIEWS] AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// XTAR: PB2 Charger /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// SKILHUNT: M150
Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2 /// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)
GIVEAWAY: 1
I want to make a correction on something I’ve said in the past about thermal protection triggering too soon on my E2L.
.
, but it’s not the switches fault, I think I might have damaged it during soldering of the spring as it always felt a bit too easy to click, and during a runtime test at 9A it just melted in place 
Yesterday I rebuilt it with new leds and in the process I noticed because a crumb of dirt got under the mosled pcb during reassembly, the board wasn’t making good thermal contact on the side of the thermistor.
So that explains why thermal protection triggered almost instantly (always less than 15s), and the driver heat management was working as intended all this time
After a more careful reassembly it takes something above 30s at 9A before stepdown with factory settings, which is in line with what I had expected in the first place.
I also melted the lighted tailswitch
Wow how’d I miss these? Those silicone pads are sweet!
KB1428 “Live Life WOT”
That's actually picture of aluminum spacer in pill, thin silicone pads go on top and bottom of spacer.
led4power.com
That is good example why is good to have temp. sensor on MCPCB instead on driver PCB - in other case driver don't see that something is wrong with PCB contact and LED would probably de-solder itself together with wires which would cause havoc inside of light.
OMTEN switches are unfortunately made from low melting point plastic, so soldering everything around switch is more challenging.
led4power.com
As led4power said, it is an aluminium spacer
I didn’t put the silicone pads as this was for “demonstration” purposes only, when the products arrived!
But this is top notch! Super well made
BTW, I’m using one of the the Luxeon V (with pebbled TIR lens) …and, honestly, it is the best tint I ever seen!!! Honestly!
I guess now I’ll have to try the triple with those leds 
So thank you
[REVIEWS] AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// XTAR: PB2 Charger /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// SKILHUNT: M150
Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2 /// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)
GIVEAWAY: 1
Oh aluminum spacer?
Can you make silicone pads like this? Never liked hacking up the silicone cubes, never got them to fit precisely. I always thought there had to be something better!
KB1428 “Live Life WOT”
This is how it should look assembled:
BTW, this only works for LD-A4 driver because mosfet is highest component.
Even better would be if Simon or Kiriba-ru can make solid pill with ~1.2mm depth (LD-A4 has 0.9-1.0mm height), in that case only one silicone sheet would be needed and thermal transfer would be better (but not by much).
led4power.com
When building up a switch assembly, I start with desoldering the switch, when everything is done (spring, bypass etc.) I resolder the switch in place, touching the solder with the iron as short as possible. And still, every third switch that I solder in is destroyed and has to be replaced.
link to djozz tests
I will probably offer ILC-0 with non-soldered switch for those reasons, so user can solder switch as last step.
led4power.com
Ok.
But I dont see brass reasonable material for pill.
Are you sure that single led is still popular option (in combination with your drivers)?
Another problem, I cant find spare retaining rings anymore. My custom rings are ways more expensive.
Low-cost copper pills, spacers, optics, drop-ins.
What’s a good host for your quad luxeon mcpcb and drivers?
PCB is 20mm, driver is 17mm clicky switch,most people use spacer/kits like form kiriba-ru to fit all in commonly used hosts like convoy M1 etc.
led4power.com
But I dont make M1/M2/X5/VG10 sets anymore…
Low-cost copper pills, spacers, optics, drop-ins.
Added option with non-soldered switch:
led4power.com
XP-L V6 3D DTP (notcigon) vs mosX test:
Results are in table.
This was important/milestone test because a lot of popular single die LEDs come in 3535 footprint.
led4power.com
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