Problem with my first build

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Sucker_Dad
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Problem with my first build

I built my first light yesterday. I am having trouble with Config mode. I went simple for the sake of learning. I have an L2 host and I put in the MTN 20mm driver with Bistro an XP-l led on a 20mm MCPCB I have it all put together and the light works. It is stuck in Muggle mode. It’s a forward clicky and I have tried momentary on and releasing it a bunch and the only thing I can get it to do is it gets to a point where it stops changing the level I stop there. THe only thing it does is change the level to the next higher after about 5 seconds. then nothing. I don’t know if I am doing anything wrong or maybe my driver is bad. there are no shorts that I can see. To be fair On my first time soldering the leads the solder was a bt high and when I screwed on the end of the flashlight the reflector hit the solder on the positive side. I don’t think it was very long but as you all know that really doesn’t matter. It either fries something or it doesn’t. I did re-solder the leads but still nothing. Thanks for the help guys!

Lexel
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If the reflector hit just the positive side in most cases thats not a problem as long as it is not connected to the tube,
if so it would do a dead short to the battery then your springs melt and switch also gets likely damaged if you run an unprotected cell

There should be no problem with a cell with PCB

but any of this would not harm the driver at all

if you do a bunch of clicks the light should stop cycling through modes, then let it have power and it starts the programm sequence
if you just get another mode you dont enter the programm cycle

Sometimes the drivers get stuck in a mode or config, you can fix this by flashing the driver again

I highly recommens a reverse clicky as its a lot easier to programm the light

if you like classic music watch this video

Sucker_Dad
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Thanks for the reply. One of my springs got rather hot but that’s it. The switch seems to be fine. I pulled the spring back out and it is fine. I will replace it when I get a chance. Yes it was when I was putting the bezal on that I had an issue. The first time I fired it up, the light came on and I tightened the bezel just a bit. it went off and when I backed it off again it came back on. It does not do that now.

EasyB
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Yep, it sounds like you momentarily shorted the battery when you tightened the bezel. But I don’t think that would damage the driver.

It can be difficult/confusing using a forward clicky switch with these firmwares. As Lexel said, the behavior you are seeing when you enter configuration mode is not what should happen with Bistro. Is it possible you have not actually entered config mode, or inadvertently do something with the clicking to exit prematurely?

Ollie
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Sucker_Dad,

Off topic, I'm no help at all, but did the kids enjoy working on the light?

Ollie

Sucker_Dad
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EasyB wrote:
Yep, it sounds like you momentarily shorted the battery when you tightened the bezel. But I don’t think that would damage the driver.

It can be difficult/confusing using a forward clicky switch with these firmwares. As Lexel said, the behavior you are seeing when you enter configuration mode is not what should happen with Bistro. Is it possible you have not actually entered config mode, or inadvertently do something with the clicking to exit prematurely?


I have wondered that. So what I have seen mentioned on using the forward clickies with Bistro is to half press until momentary comes on and then cycle off and on for 15 or 16 cycles. stopping with the light on momentary. Does that sound correct?
Sucker_Dad
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Ollie wrote:
Sucker_Dad, Off topic, I’m no help at all, but did the kids enjoy working on the light? Ollie

I wish I could say they loved it, but that was not the case. I really think they may have preferred watching Ganghi (If you have not seen it, I think it runs 3.5 hrs) Just not ready yet. One of my boys has a kit using a solar panel to create several different automatons that he loves. We will stick with that I will introduce him to Flashlights at a later date. The other one has a similar kit but it uses batteries to make different projects.

Ronin42
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See my version of simple is DD old school no driver. on/off to me thats simple. after on/off things get complicated quickly. Wink

(“It’s good that most people can’t remember their previous lives. Otherwise
things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo)

Ollie
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Sucker_Dad,

Hey, they're kids. The clock is ticking, and they want to do their own things before it's back to school, homework, and all that. After that it's college, the rat race, and they will be my age before their time is mostly their own again. I understand it.

Ollie

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Ronin42,

Are you a M*g modder? All that lovely aluminum, just waiting to soak up heat.

Ollie

Sucker_Dad
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Ronin42 wrote:
See my version of simple is DD old school no driver. on/off to me thats simple. after on/off things get complicated quickly. Wink

Is that even possible with a light like this? I wouldn’t mind a full power on off light. I have small lights that I can do moonlight and such with.
Sucker_Dad
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Ollie wrote:
Sucker_Dad, Hey, they’re kids. The clock is ticking, and they want to do their own things before it’s back to school, homework, and all that. After that it’s college, the rat race, and they will be my age before their time is mostly their own again. I understand it. Ollie
Yeah, I am not sweating it. They may never get the bug. They are thrilled with the cheap SK68 clones I got them. I even got some rechargeables for them.
Ollie
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Sucker_Dad,

It's not only possible, it's easy, so easy that it sometimes happens by accident. The positive side, the red wire, goes directly to battery+, with side circuits to power the driver. The controls, if you will, go through the negative side. If you accidently slop some solder from the negative pad on the LED to the pill, body of the light, whatever, you lose all modes except high. What you have done, accidently or intentionally, is built a DD light.

I do this with M*gs, because they have plenty of mass. I have done this recently and built a 70.2, three 50.2s, and a 9xXP-G2. Years ago I built two 4xXM-Ls. I also build M*gs with modes, but less commonly.

I certainly agree with you about using small lights, particularly inside. If you're building some monster light, you are often building for throw. That sort of beam pattern is not as useful indoors. That's where your floody light is appropriate, and there are certainly enough small, inexpensive lights at WallyWorld that will do the job. Ain't gonna lug around a 4D M*g inside with a moonlight mode.

Ollie

Sucker_Dad
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So I could just let my solder blob on the neg side carry over to the retaining screw that holds in the star?

Ollie
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Sucker_Dad,

Should work. That's what happened more or less with a C8 dropin I had. With magnification I can see the connection. I haven't fixed it because I don't really like the emitter's tint. One thing, if you don't like the results, it's an easy fix to lay some solder sucker copper braid on the connection and get rid of it.

Ollie

Phlogiston
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Do you have a reverse clicky switch / board lying around?

Temporarily putting that into the tailcap would let you eliminate the possibility of confusing the driver with the forward clicky. If you’re lucky and that’s the problem, you could program to suit with the reverse clicky, then put the forward clicky back when you’ve got the light the way you want it.

EasyB
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Sucker_Dad wrote:
EasyB wrote:
Yep, it sounds like you momentarily shorted the battery when you tightened the bezel. But I don’t think that would damage the driver.

It can be difficult/confusing using a forward clicky switch with these firmwares. As Lexel said, the behavior you are seeing when you enter configuration mode is not what should happen with Bistro. Is it possible you have not actually entered config mode, or inadvertently do something with the clicking to exit prematurely?


I have wondered that. So what I have seen mentioned on using the forward clickies with Bistro is to half press until momentary comes on and then cycle off and on for 15 or 16 cycles. stopping with the light on momentary. Does that sound correct?

Yes that sounds right. I think the only option on the menu when in muggle mode is to exit muggle mode. You should see a blink then a “stutter”, and you should click while it is stuttering.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/53025

If you don’t do anything it will just go back to the mode you were in (or maybe the next higher), which it seems like what is happening to you. Is it possible it is stuttering and you don’t see it? Another possibility is that the blink and stutter uses the 7135 chip, and it was somehow damaged on your driver, preventing it from blinking and stuttering.

Sucker_Dad
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EasyB wrote:
Sucker_Dad wrote:
EasyB wrote:
Yep, it sounds like you momentarily shorted the battery when you tightened the bezel. But I don’t think that would damage the driver.

It can be difficult/confusing using a forward clicky switch with these firmwares. As Lexel said, the behavior you are seeing when you enter configuration mode is not what should happen with Bistro. Is it possible you have not actually entered config mode, or inadvertently do something with the clicking to exit prematurely?


I have wondered that. So what I have seen mentioned on using the forward clickies with Bistro is to half press until momentary comes on and then cycle off and on for 15 or 16 cycles. stopping with the light on momentary. Does that sound correct?

Yes that sounds right. I think the only option on the menu when in muggle mode is to exit muggle mode. You should see a blink then a “stutter”, and you should click while it is stuttering.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/53025

If you don’t do anything it will just go back to the mode you were in (or maybe the next higher), which it seems like what is happening to you. Is it possible it is stuttering and you don’t see it? Another possibility is that the blink and stutter uses the 7135 chip, and it was somehow damaged on your driver, preventing it from blinking and stuttering.


That seems very plausible. I am cycling this pretty quick. I think I am going to order a reverse clicky. Then when I get it set the way I want I can swap them back out. I hate having to do that, but the forward clicky is just frustrating the shit out of me. For now, I am going the DD route. I hate it being stuck in muggle mode.
Sucker_Dad
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Well learn something every day. Do not put 2 batteries on a DD setup with an XP-L. It may have lasted 1/10th of a second.

Ollie
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Sucker_Dad,

Now you have the perfect opportunity to make it a XHP 50.2 6V. That actually does work well with 2 batteries. This is all about the rated voltage of the LED. The XP-L is a low forward voltage emitter. One of them will not sag the battery voltage enough to put it in a safe zone. Maybe if you had a bunch of them in parallel. I'm running 5.6V to 9 XP-G2s, works fine. The XP-L, though, might fry off ONE fully charged lithium ion DD. Dunno, never tried it. I did blow up a 12V 50.2. It ran fine off 4 4200Mah batteries. So, if a little is good . . Dropped in 4 5200 Keeppowers. Amps went way up. Not being real swift, I put the tailcap on and took it outside. Really beautiful beam for maybe 2 seconds. It's a 70.2 now. You get to a point where the heat buildup at the LED happens so fast that no passive cooling can take it away fast enough to save it. Obviously this means that you have far exceeded the design criteria. We get so used to doubling or more the rated current that we assume there is no ceiling.

When I do DD, I'm rolling the dice. I don't know for sure that I'm not going to let the magic smoke out. But if I do, it's just another rebuild. On that note, I recommend mtnelectronics. I ordered some stuff at almost midnight Wednesday evening, and had it Saturday afternoon! I was like a kid in a candy store.

Ollie

Sucker_Dad
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Yes Mtn is great. Super fast shipping. That is who I got everything from. I swapped out my LED today and the light is all good. I wish I could figure out the bistro firmware but DD will work for now. So you said I could run one of the 50.2 would a 70 work as well?

Sucker_Dad
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Jesus Christ, I will take beam shots tomorrow. This thing is unreal. If I shine it on a wall the beam is extremely ringed. Outside it is just insane how powerful it is. I will go down to the lake this weekend to really see how far I can see with it. I love it.

Ollie
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Sucker_Dad,

I would think the 70.2 would work. I was running my first 50.2 12V, and as I mentioned, I blew it up with Keeppowers, When I built my first 2D 50.2, I reasoned that the voltage sag would be more, and enable me to run two of the Keeppowers. It worked, so I built another one. So far no problems. I keep going back and forth with the idea of a 2D 70.2, but I have a triple reflector that will fit 50s. I'd like to try to get a throwier (is there such a word?) light. I also have a 4 emitter optic, but I think I'd just be getting more flood. I have kept unmolested one of my first M*g builds, a 5xXR-E. Actually it works well, about like an XM-L2, and has quite a hotspot. So I'm on the fence.

Sorry I can't help with the firmware. As I've said, at most I need three modes. One to stay away from the dog poop, a brighter one to see my dogs when we're out, and a turbo setting to spot things at a greater distance. For me, the KD-LITKER C8.2 is as close to perfect as it gets. I hate being in a spot where something doesn't work, and I don't know if it's faulty of if it's me not understanding.

Ollie

Ollie
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Sucker_Dad,

What did you put in it?

Now for me to be an enabler: I just took the 50.2 6V and the 70.2 12V outside for a comparison. It wasn't foggy for once, and the Moon is waning. On these comparisons I take a light in each hand and scan back and forth at an object, usually a tree. You have to look closely to tell the difference. They are supposed to be the same tint, and they are pretty close. The result is that the 50.2 has a slightly, and I do mean slightly, brighter hotspot. The 70.2 has a bigger hotspot, and it is noticable. However, I have looked at a lot of flashlight beams, and if you looked at either one, you'd say, "Wow!". They're both bright as heck. The only caveat is, will the 7x7 emitter fit the hole in your light's reflector?

A ringy beam can often be adjusted out by moving the reflector. I say, "usually", because I about gave up on the Nichia 319A I put in a 3D M*g last night. Ordinary single emitter, driven by three D NiMHs. It had a black hole in the center. I tried every reflector that would fit in the light. I even tried holding a C8 reflector in front of it, without any improvement. Finally I put the aspherical lens that had been on it through several emitters, and it really got well. I got it adjusted to a nice hexagonal image, and for 2.57A it's quite a thrower. I'm going to put a FET driver in there. If it wasn't such a nice tint, I might have just ripped it out.

Ollie

Sucker_Dad
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I put another XP-L in it. The one I got had the top of the dome chipped off and MTN already had one being shipped to me. I doubt the reflector is large enough but that can be fixed.