Cost of production in China????

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southland
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Cost of production in China????

Have been reading in some of the flashlight threads that @ Company is loosing money on the production of @ flashlight and they are going to have to raise prices. Some are you are believing them and backing them up when someone questions the prices. Not me, I have friends from China and some of the costs they tell are really had to believe but true.

Tennis shoes comparable to Nike, $3.
Fender Stratocaster copy, sure the quality is not quite the same but very good, $30.

A few links showing prices on some other items.

Personally bought this generator from local Northern Tool store for $89.
Friend bought this chainsaw on Amazon for $119 shipped. Here is a video review.

Edited by: southland on 10/10/2017 - 01:58
The Miller
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Think we will maybe never know how cheap it is to produce things there.
Just browse AliExpress and it is mind boggling how they can do it, only conclusion is that it is dirt cheap to make things.

Take the Q8, when we did napkin calculations we were debating if we should not raise the price for even getting things from China, the parts alone were more.
Yet they have kept the coupons working much longer, we got money and so the conclusion must be that there was already profit in the groupbuy price which is baffling, 4 good binned LEDs ~8 + large copper DTP board ~8 + driver ~10 leaves $14 for host and shipping.

BTW got one of those chainsaws too, I needed a new chain and bar for my good husqvarna. Would cost me €70 but a chainsaw from Amazon with compatible bar and 3 chains cost €100
It is pretty decent and works, in the end it is about having good sharp teeth and good technique.
Neighbor has one too, but after a month not using it while leaving gas it would not start and needed Cleaning, I normally empty the tanks but with two saws when he was having problems my husqvarna had gas in the tank for much longer, three pulls and it ran and neighbor could do the job he wanted so there is a difference Wink

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I’m pretty sure no commercial manufacturer or seller will accept actions like Q8 and GT without making money right from the start.

southland
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Just rebuild a Stihl MS390 myself that had a locked up piston, think my family member put gas in it with no oil but he won’t admit to doing that. The saw new is close to $600 and dealers around here wanted $300 just for the cylinder and piston, piston only was $120. Found a dealer that would sell an OEM piston for $45 so did that and honed the cylinder. Works great now, like new. Chinese kits with the cylinder, piston, bearings, and seals start at less than $20 and go up. Lots of people use them with no problem(investigated on arboristsite.com). Had to tear the saw completely down to get to the piston and I promise you there are way more machined and cast parts in that saw than any flashlight made.

southland
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Remember the Astrolux S41 was around $45 when it first came out and it’s now selling for $22.95.

Nicolicous
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southland wrote:
Remember the Astrolux S41 was around $45 when it first came out and it’s now selling for $22.95.

i can take a guess for the production price S41…. it would of cost them 1/3 of the retail (i.e. $7.6 to make S41)

Big Smile

Can you lend me some money to buy new flashlights?

kiriba-ru
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I think you shouldnt mess didferent target prices.
One is: what price should be to start production and make project real (as market manager).
Another one: you are factory owner, you have big fixed costs, while amount of goods that can be sold (worldwide) is much less than production abilities (worldwide). And you have other target price (to save your job you have to take orders that are under first target, but can help you to pay for everymonth bills).
China have great oppurtunities in electronics stocks, transport system, shipping abilities and etc.
At the same time, there is no reasons to say that production in China can be times cheaper than in other country with open market economics (US). Machines, tools and materials costs difference can be just 10-20%, energy resources cost even same, biggest influence is salary (lets say $5/hour in China).
This is named overproduction crisis. And if blfers help chinese companies with ideas and group buys, this is always good news both for factories and stores (just imagine how many products should realise china vendors to reach q8 GB quantity).

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

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kiriba-ru wrote:
biggest influence is salary (lets say $5/hour in China).

It’s 50% more than what low-skilled factory workers in Poland make, so I suppose it’s significantly overinflated.
ADDED: Or maybe not that much…
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-hourly-rate-for-a-factory-work...
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https://tradingeconomics.com/china/wages-in-manufacturing
Cnc operator, CAD designer and electronic engineer are not low-skilled employers.
$2/hour or less is regular salary in agriculture, not in machinary-equipped manufacure.

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

Agro
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kiriba-ru wrote:
Cnc operator, CAD designer and electronic engineer are not low-skilled employers.

Yes, that’s why singled the low-skilled ones out.
I don’t know the wages of high-skilled ones.
luminarium iaculator
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southland wrote:
Just rebuild a Stihl MS390 myself that had a locked up piston, think my family member put gas in it with no oil but he won’t admit to doing that. The saw new is close to $600 and dealers around here wanted $300 just for the cylinder and piston, piston only was $120. Found a dealer that would sell an OEM piston for $45 so did that and honed the cylinder. Works great now, like new. Chinese kits with the cylinder, piston, bearings, and seals start at less than $20 and go up. Lots of people use them with no problem(investigated on arboristsite.com). Had to tear the saw completely down to get to the piston and I promise you there are way more machined and cast parts in that saw than any flashlight made.

Stihl 038 Magnum. Same thing + destroyed crank bearings so I assumed that crank could get some beatings… I decided to put everything new inside it.

So I got cylinder and crankshaft (probably china one but from reputable seller) and dremmel cleaned the openings of cylinder, meteor piston + caber rings(Italy), original parts were set of gaskets and bearings. For now it is working and I don’t notice any performance difference…

But have to say that original Mahle Cylinder and crankshaft are better build feels heavier in a hand and cylinder is smoothed out of factory. But as you said original set of parts is way over 400$ for this chainsaw, all mentioned I paid around 170$

Edit: about meteor piston + caber rings they seem even better than original stuff so no problem if you ever get them. Cost around 25$

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southland
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luminarium iaculator wrote:
southland wrote:
Just rebuild a Stihl MS390 myself that had a locked up piston, think my family member put gas in it with no oil but he won’t admit to doing that. The saw new is close to $600 and dealers around here wanted $300 just for the cylinder and piston, piston only was $120. Found a dealer that would sell an OEM piston for $45 so did that and honed the cylinder. Works great now, like new. Chinese kits with the cylinder, piston, bearings, and seals start at less than $20 and go up. Lots of people use them with no problem(investigated on arboristsite.com). Had to tear the saw completely down to get to the piston and I promise you there are way more machined and cast parts in that saw than any flashlight made.

Stihl 038 Magnum. Same thing + destroyed crank bearings so I assumed that crank could get some beatings… I decided to put everything new inside it.

So I got cylinder and crankshaft (probably china one but from reputable seller) and dremmel cleaned the openings of cylinder, meteor piston + caber rings(Italy), original parts were set of gaskets and bearings. For now it is working and I don’t notice any performance difference…

But have to say that original Mahle Cylinder and crankshaft are better build feels heavier in a hand and cylinder is smoothed out of factory. But as you said original set of parts is way over 400$ for this chainsaw, all mentioned I paid around 170$

Edit: about meteor piston + caber rings they seem even better than original stuff so no problem if you ever get them. Cost around 25$

Cool that you also rebuild a chainsaw. That was my first one but I couldn’t see throwing away a very nice low hour saw nor could I see paying almost the price of a new one to have the dealer rebuild it. Arboristsite.com has a lot of good people who can talk you through a rebuild if you run into a problem and there was also a good video on youtube rebuilding the same saw. Watch video 10 minutes, go work on saw for 30 and again and again.

luminarium iaculator
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southland wrote:
luminarium iaculator wrote:
southland wrote:
Just rebuild a Stihl MS390 myself that had a locked up piston, think my family member put gas in it with no oil but he won’t admit to doing that. The saw new is close to $600 and dealers around here wanted $300 just for the cylinder and piston, piston only was $120. Found a dealer that would sell an OEM piston for $45 so did that and honed the cylinder. Works great now, like new. Chinese kits with the cylinder, piston, bearings, and seals start at less than $20 and go up. Lots of people use them with no problem(investigated on arboristsite.com). Had to tear the saw completely down to get to the piston and I promise you there are way more machined and cast parts in that saw than any flashlight made.

Stihl 038 Magnum. Same thing + destroyed crank bearings so I assumed that crank could get some beatings… I decided to put everything new inside it.

So I got cylinder and crankshaft (probably china one but from reputable seller) and dremmel cleaned the openings of cylinder, meteor piston + caber rings(Italy), original parts were set of gaskets and bearings. For now it is working and I don’t notice any performance difference…

But have to say that original Mahle Cylinder and crankshaft are better build feels heavier in a hand and cylinder is smoothed out of factory. But as you said original set of parts is way over 400$ for this chainsaw, all mentioned I paid around 170$

Edit: about meteor piston + caber rings they seem even better than original stuff so no problem if you ever get them. Cost around 25$

Cool that you also rebuild a chainsaw. That was my first one but I couldn’t see throwing away a very nice low hour saw nor could I see paying almost the price of a new one to have the dealer rebuild it. Arboristsite.com has a lot of good people who can talk you through a rebuild if you run into a problem and there was also a good video on youtube rebuilding the same saw. Watch video 10 minutes, go work on saw for 30 and again and again.

The problem becomes bit larger when you need to change crankshaft and bearings but is doable.

Wish someone open chainsaw thread here… Yeah! BLF for every kind of possible talk and sharing experiences.

I bet that there are plenty experienced arborist here from all around the world.

Please start one…

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

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luminarium iaculator
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kiriba-ru wrote:
https://tradingeconomics.com/china/wages-in-manufacturing Cnc operator, CAD designer and electronic engineer are not low-skilled employers. $2/hour or less is regular salary in agriculture, not in machinary-equipped manufacure.

I hope their life expenses are lower than in the EU or USA (bread, milk etc.)

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You need to go there and see for yourself… seeing is believing…..

Been there, done that, ain’t ever going back… well maybe Hong Kong….

KB1428 “Live Life WOT”

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It’s always baffled me that I can order small things from Allie for $1 or less that would cost me at least $5 here. With no shipping fee. I buy tons of things from China just because I can’t beat the prices. Any time I go on Amaz0n I laugh heavily when the shipping cost itself is more than what I could the product itself for on Allie.

In high school my friends and I did a good bit of machine work for a battle bots club. A few things were beyond our scope so when we paid for machine work to be done it would be a fortune. I know it’s a large production process and numbers decrease the prices, but just getting the body of a Q8 machined in the US would be a great deal more costly than the entire light itself. I think the value in the Emisar D4 is incredible at $40, but the Q8 is significantly more material and machining yet I still got it for $40.

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It depends on what goods do you want.
Try to find hand tools (wrenches, pliers etc.) that you prefer to buy from ali.
Lots of you (blfers from the US) have US-made drill press. Try to find smth similar (weight, material, quality) on ali.
Try to find chinese-made truck that is better and cheaper than F150.
Etc. etc. etc.

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

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KawiBoy1428 wrote:
You need to go there and see for yourself… seeing is believing…..

Been there, done that, ain’t ever going back… well maybe Hong Kong….

Probably polluted air, bad food, lack of space, rush hours are mad… ?

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

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luminarium iaculator wrote:
KawiBoy1428 wrote:

You need to go there and see for yourself... seeing is believing..... p. Been there, done that, ain't ever going back... well maybe Hong Kong....

Probably polluted air, bad food, lack of space, rush hours are mad... ?

I don't want to see how the sausage gets made!  :X

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kiriba-ru wrote:
It depends on what goods do you want.
Try to find hand tools (wrenches, pliers etc.) that you prefer to buy from ali.
Lots of you (blfers from the US) have US-made drill press. Try to find smth similar (weight, material, quality) on ali.
Try to find chinese-made truck that is better and cheaper than F150.
Etc. etc. etc.

Big Smile
lots of parts are alread ade in China:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2015/06/29/whats-more-american-...
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I hate this origin discussion.
I mentioned things that can be bought in states but cant in china. Even if they are made in china, factories are closed and dont show china in any way – this is claster of special people with external management and US-experienced QC and etc.
BMW is making cars in russia – and they dont feel like lada. Because factory feels more like small piece of bavaria neither samara region.

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

luminarium iaculator
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kiriba-ru wrote:
I hate this origin discussion. BMW is making cars in russia – and they dont feel like lada. Because factory feels more like small piece of bavaria neither samara region.

You don’t f..k with Lada! That statement is what owners of much more expensive off roads vehicles(Hummer, Mercedes G, Defender etc.) realize when they meet Lada off road… Lada Niva has extreme off road capabilities and all that with only 1700 cc motor and it cost like 4 aluminum rims with tyres of lets say gmc hummer. We had 3 of them in my family.

Now bad side… Rust eats her(yes even new one) in very short time and you got to have tools and parts in a trunk for field repairs of very soft and low quality Russian parts, and spare lada niva or 2 for saving the first one that stuck in the mud cause no other stock off road vehicle will reach to it. Most owners when they re tune(modd) it with domestic parts have extreme off road vehicle… Proper tuned Lada Niva is the only vehicle I would like to have for zombie apocalypse Big Smile

So very good car is destroyed by Russian cheap manufacturing parts. low QC, and low rust protection… I would buy new again(around 10 000 usd) if they ever overcome that “child illness” factory issues…

Probably even Chinese people would make it better with better care.

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

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kiriba-ru
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Big Smile And front wings (not sure this is right word) are not removable without right angle grinder… There are still some small old-style off-road winners available at the market. For example, suzuki jimny.

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

luminarium iaculator
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kiriba-ru wrote:
Big Smile And front wings (not sure this is right word) are not removable without right angle grinder… There are still some small old-style off-road winners available at the market. For example, suzuki jimny.

Yes I agree… Or Mercedes G and Defender as a good choice if you are good friend with Mr. Budget.
But as mentioned above even cheap lada or suzuky will have better off road capatibilities than them (they are heavy while Lada and Jimny ain’t so they are climbing like a goats)

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

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southland
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My dream off roader is the Unimog.

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Yes that is true beast. But it cost around 100 000 – 200 000$ if not more… And for example in some countries you can actually buy a good house for 50-80k $

Edit: Forgot that some guys are building off road vehicles(mercedes G,Daimler Steyr Puch) on unimog platform so you can actually build off road vehicle much cheaper if you are good in finding parts and at car modding Smile

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

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southland
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Yes, very expensive and I would never own a new one but I have looked at some really old ones from the 60’s and 70’s that are a lot cheaper. Still too much money for a toy. Always though it would be a good idea for hospitals in heavy ice/snow prone areas to have one for transporting doctors and nurses in emergency situations.

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southland wrote:
Always though it would be a good idea for hospitals in heavy ice/snow prone areas to have one for transporting doctors and nurses in emergency situations.

Russia have special car for such areas:

(And yes, it is still in production)

Meanwhile in Russia: https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia

southland
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Also from Russia, the Sherpa.