XHP70.2 P2 4000k Output test by Texas_Ace - it's over 9000!! lumens and still going strong!

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Texas_Ace
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JasonWW wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
Very interestingly, I sliced the dome on the xhp70.2 in Giggles and the Kcd jumped by over 50%!

It went from ~450kcd with the dome to over 700Kcd with the (badly) sliced dome.


50% is quite large! Usually it’s 25% to 30%, isn’t it?

Do you think the overall result is positive or negative?

You loose lumens as well as have a smaller area the hotspot covers, but gain distance.

When I sliced my older xhp70 I found the end result was negative as I prefered the bigger hotspot and brighter output. Maybe it’s a personal preference thing?

I noticed the sliced hotspot size was pretty much the same as a xhp50.2 with the dome on.

I would speculate that a sliced dome xhp50.2 would give the same hot spot size as a xhp35 HD (with dome).

So you get 4 steps of hot spot size:

Xhp35 hi

Xhp35 HD
Xhp50.2 sliced

Xhp50.2
Xhp70.2 sliced

Xhp70.2

You start with the smallest hot spot, the lowest lumens and the lowest amp draw. Then as you go down the list the hotspot size goes up.

I wonder how the 50.2 and sliced 70.2 compare as far as amp draw for the lumens they put out?

I’ll have to sit down and crunch the numbers one of these days.

It is tough to say at this point which I prefer. Dome on or off.

The dome on tint was a bit better and it most likely had more lumens, although it does not seem to have lost as many lumens as the old xhp70 did without a dome.

The biggest gain is the (almost) elimination of the dark spot.

I was never a fan of sliced domes on the old XHP70 but this one is not bad.

All said and done, if the dark spot could be eliminated with the dome on, I personally would most likely just leave it like that. 1300m of throw is more then enough and the larger hotspot and better tine are good.

With the dark spot as it is right now, I would say it is a toss up. Once I get the V1 prototype back I will most likely try a dome on vs dome off side by side comparison.

Now if Lumintop could be talked into reworking the reflector to eliminate the dark spot and making the xhp70 mcpcb, then that would really open up options.

The xhp50.2 would be an interesting match, I have one here but no mcpcb for it that would fit.

Although given the results with the xhp70.2, personally I think I would go for the higher output it offers and live with a bit less throw.

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Texas_Ace wrote:

Now if Lumintop could be talked into reworking the reflector to eliminate the dark spot.

I don’t think that is physically possible without reducing the throw.

A reflector shaped for maximum throw is always going to be weaker in the middle of the hotspot.

You could get a smoother hotspot 4 ways, but they all reduce throw:

Adding texture to the reflector

Adding a light diffuser film to the lens

Offseting the emitter to the side a little.

Unfocus the emitter up and down, depth wise with the reflector.

When I was chasing throw with my L6 I tried all kinds of experiments, But ultimately I decided to make the hotspot look nice to me regardless of what the throw numbers said.

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JasonWW wrote:
When I was chasing throw with my L6 I tried all kinds of experiments, But ultimately I decided to make the hotspot look nice to me regardless of what the throw numbers said.

Yep, that is what I was getting at. The reduction in throw is generally worth the better beam I have found. For example going to an SMO reflector in the L6 makes the beam not nearly as pretty to look at but only gains a little throw. So I stuck with the OP reflector.

In general I prefer the OP reflectors myself but not really what we are going for here.

The beam is pretty good, it only needs a little push to make it really good with the dome on.

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Texas_Ace wrote:

For example going to an SMO reflector in the L6 makes the beam not nearly as pretty to look at but only gains a little throw. So I stuck with the OP reflector.

Really? I got good gains and a nice looking beam. Only a tiny big darker in center, but hard to see. Here’s my L6 with SMO at 2 different exposure settings. I thought it looked pretty good.

Ps, I don’t want to go too off topic in you 70.2 thread.

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JasonWW wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:

For example going to an SMO reflector in the L6 makes the beam not nearly as pretty to look at but only gains a little throw. So I stuck with the OP reflector.

Really? I got good gains and a nice looking beam. Only a tiny big darker in center, but hard to see. Here’s my L6 with SMO at 2 different exposure settings. I thought it looked pretty good.

Ps, I don’t want to go too off topic in you 70.2 thread.

That is with the xhp70.2, I was talking about the xhp70 Wink

This is the first xhp70.2 I have got my hands on so learning as I got with it.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:

For example going to an SMO reflector in the L6 makes the beam not nearly as pretty to look at but only gains a little throw. So I stuck with the OP reflector.

Really? I got good gains and a nice looking beam. Only a tiny big darker in center, but hard to see. Here’s my L6 with SMO at 2 different exposure settings. I thought it looked pretty good.

Ps, I don’t want to go too off topic in you 70.2 thread.

That is with the xhp70.2, I was talking about the xhp70 Wink

This is the first xhp70.2 I have got my hands on so learning as I got with it.


Oh! That makes all the difference then and I agree with you. The xhp70 was pretty rough to look at in SMO reflector.


.

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Looking forward to 70.2 beam shots.

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Hugh Johnson wrote:
Looking forward to 70.2 beam shots.

I just found out I have to go back to work earlier then planned, so might be a little bit before I can get them, but I will post them when I get them.

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oops, sorry

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This is the wrong thread.

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BTW Texas Ace, what kind of stock Intel heatsink are you using?

Because I have two of them, and one absolutely dwarves the other in terms of cooling capacity.

See here: https://i.imgur.com/hMTyfz5.jpg

Don’t mind the XHP 50.2 though.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
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BlueSwordM wrote:
BTW Texas Ace, what kind of stock Intel heatsink are you using?

Because I have two of them, and one absolutely dwarves the other in terms of cooling capacity.

See here: https://i.imgur.com/hMTyfz5.jpg

Don’t mind the XHP 50.2 though.

It is like the smaller one you have there. I have found it to be a pretty good analog for common flashlight sizes for most LED’s. This XHP70 is the first one I have even considered the heatsink being an issue with.

I tried to drill into a larger one like you have about 6 times and I have 6 broken drill bits to show for my effort.

If someone can drill and tap a heat sink like that for both 16mm and 20mm stars (with fan of course) I would be happy to take it off your hands.

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The larger one has a vapour chamber in the center, if you drill into that one it will stop functioning properly.
There are coolers far better than any of the ones intel makes though, but something good like a NH-D14/15 from a used site like craigslist.

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Yeah that is what I thought. I was going to say that I would not touch it, but Enderman said it first.

Also, for testing even something like an SST90, Noctua’s cooler would be a bit overkill. For these big LEDS overdriven, it would leave a comfortable margin for pushing the emitters.

Finally, to drill them would be a bad thing as Texas Ace, as it would break the heatpipes.

However, as Barkuti said, mixing thermal paste with thermal silicone works very well as to fix a very high power LED to a suitable heatsink, if you have a ratio of 5-7% thermal glue, and 95% thermal paste.

I’m currently doing that with my XHP 50.2 in my Imgur link, and it works wonderfully, until the smaller heatsink can’t handle it passively at about 30W.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
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It’s not overkill when your LED is using 100-300W though, like the CBT140, CFT90, XHP70.2, etc

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Yeah, edited the comment for reflecting this.

The large heatpipe copper bases are very useful though: very powerful multi-emitter constant brightness floodlights, or just a monster light, like the Storm of Ra.

But for testing, they are a bit problematic if you want to mount them using screws.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

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Oh, the cooler I was using just had a copper slug, did know they moved to vapor chambers now.

I am not that worried about it, this one works great up to around 100w and the only LED I have tested yet past that is the xhp70.2.

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Only the large intel heatsinks (like BXTS13A) have the vapour chamber in the middle, the small stock ones don’t.
The thing is that the more power the LED uses the hotter it will get with that tiny heatsink, and as we all know, higher temp = lower output.
I can guarantee you that the small heatsink you used had the XHP70.2 at over 100C or possibly even 150C.

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Enderman wrote:
Only the large intel heatsinks (like BXTS13A) have the vapour chamber in the middle, the small stock ones don’t. The thing is that the more power the LED uses the hotter it will get with that tiny heatsink, and as we all know, higher temp = lower output. I can guarantee you that the small heatsink you used had the XHP70.2 at over 100C or possibly even 150C.

It was not 150c that is for sure after touching it during the test. I am guessing around 100c. Which seeing as the LED’s are binned at 105c, is still perfectly fine. Which is why I have not worried about upgrading.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
Enderman wrote:
Only the large intel heatsinks (like BXTS13A) have the vapour chamber in the middle, the small stock ones don’t. The thing is that the more power the LED uses the hotter it will get with that tiny heatsink, and as we all know, higher temp = lower output. I can guarantee you that the small heatsink you used had the XHP70.2 at over 100C or possibly even 150C.

It was not 150c that is for sure after touching it during the test. I am guessing around 100c. Which seeing as the LED’s are binned at 105c, is still perfectly fine. Which is why I have not worried about upgrading.


“Binned at 85 °C”

http://www.cree.com/led-components/media/documents/ds-XHP702.pdf

And you can get 10% or even more output by running it cooler than 85C.

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Ok, I was thinking of another model, either way my goal is not to get max lumens on a bench, it is to get realistic real world lumens so people can know what to expect in a light.

My numbers have proven to do this well over time.

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I don’t think anyone building a light with a 200W LED is making a “regular” tube flashlight with horrible cooling, like a ‘realistic’ flashlight.

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Nice work Ace. I really love the way your graph looks. What program did you use to make that? Also have you done a control test like this with XHP35HI?

JasonWW wrote:
Jerommel wrote:
Water cooling?
This is a good idea, but Matt is not very knowledgeable in the subject. No offense to him.

Don’t worry, none taken at all my friend.. Were all in this together!

In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
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vestureofblood wrote:
Nice work Ace. I really love the way your graph looks. What program did you use to make that? Also have you done a control test like this with XHP35HI?
JasonWW wrote:
Jerommel wrote:
Water cooling?
This is a good idea, but Matt is not very knowledgeable in the subject. No offense to him.

Don’t worry, none taken at all my friend.. Were all in this together!

Thanks! The graph was done with Excel.

Yes, I have a few dozen LED tests now, you can see them in my sig. A member here made a graph that can compare them if you click the link to see all the tests.

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Just curious about the difference in life hours for the 70.2 vs. Hi 35 with peak watt ratings.

Frank Miranda

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talking about the time until the LED is dead or battery life?

The LED life itself is generally far longer then any of us will use a flashlight so it is not something many of us worry about.

Battery life will be less with the XHP70.2 of course since it uses more power.

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Someone with a CNC mill could make a nice custom watercooling block from copper. Big Smile

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LichtAn wrote:
Someone with a CNC mill could make a nice custom watercooling block from copper. Big Smile

You don’t need all that. I brazed one together from copper using an oxy-acetylene torch 17 or 18 years ago, back before you could buy them. Heck, for the last 15 years now you could just buy a copper water block. Get a bucket of water, put a little antifreeze in it to block algae growth, drop in a submersible pump and away you go. Keep the flow rate high and it will take a very long time before the reservoir starts to warm up. Almost completely silent as well.

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Guys what’s the best XHP70.2 emitter for ending up with a nice neutral white without much tint shift after dedoming?

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