Osram Synios DMLN31.SG LED test - (not very good, flaw found after testing)

21 posts / 0 new
Last post
Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 21 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 3491
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Osram Synios DMLN31.SG LED test - (not very good, flaw found after testing)

NOTICE A testing design flaw has been discovered that is artificially inflating the cd/mm^2 numbers of the Synios LEDs. Due to the concave shape of the LED surface, additional light is being reflected into the luxmeter that is not coming from the die. The true cd/mm^2 needs to be measured either using a lens, or by blocking all areas surrounding the LED. Koef3 is rerunning some of his Synios tests to obtain proper numbers, which are closer to 200cd/mm^2. Ther Black Flat is still the best at the moment. My testing results, which used the same method that koef3 originally did, are unfortunately also incorrect SadNOTICE










I wanted to double check for myself that the results from this test were correct: http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/led-test-review-osram-synios-p...
They found 297.8 cd/mm^2 which is the highest of any LED we currently know of, even higher than the Black Flat.

My test was done slightly differently, I used a fan cooled copper base and heatpipe CPU cooler:

The Synios was mounted on a Noctigon XP20 copper DTP MCPCB.
The PCB was screwed down tightly to the heatsink using two M3 screws and holes tapped into the heatsink.
Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut liquid metal thermal paste was used between the MCPCB and the heatsink.

Luxmeter was placed at 1m away, current and voltage was measured with a UT61E multimeter and UT210E clamp meter.

AMAZING results, peak of 330 cd/mm^1 likely due to the better heatsinking.
Even though it is only 4 watts, the lower the junction temperature is the more light the LED can produce.
Similar Kof3’s test (with the peak at ~0.9A) the peak for this test is at exactly 1A, any more and it starts dropping fast, as you can see from the grey dot on the graph.
This definitely confirms the values measured in Kof3’s test are true!

You can look forward to seeing my next flashlight build using this LED Smile

Edited by: Enderman on 04/02/2018 - 03:39
The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 25 min 59 sec ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1208
Location: Germany

Nice test! Although I knew that Köf3s results were pretty accurate (he goes to a lot of effort).

Have you compared the emission profile to that of Black Flat?

koef3
koef3's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 7 hours ago
Joined: 08/28/2017 - 14:04
Posts: 138
Location: Cologne, Germany

Thanks for the test. – And the confirmation of my measurements, too Wink
To be honest, this LED isn’t suitable for many flashlights, not only because of the center rings needed to get the LED die exactly in the center of the reflector. The quality of reflectors or lenses must also be as high as possible, otherwise there are lot of artifacts (rings etc) in the light pattern.

Could be interesting for little keychain pocket or low current throwers. Because of the very high thermal resistance of typ. 20 K/W I wouldn’t give the SYNIOS more than 650 – 750 mAmps.

My LED tests: Cree SC5 based LEDs (WIP!)  ---  Nichia 319AT 83 CRI - Optisolis (3000/5000 K) - Lumileds Luxeon LXML-PWD9 - Luxeon MZ 5700 K (90 CRI, 3 V) - Luxeon V (CSP) 4000 K 70CRI - Luminus SST-40-W (+ dedomed) - Cree XP-L2 (+ High CRI variant) - XHP35 HI - XHP70.2 - CXA1304 COB - OSRAM OSLON Black Flat HWQP - SYNIOS DMLQ31.SGLE UW Q8WP - unknown 5050 LED ---- finished: JAXMAN M8 (Mini C8) HighCRI Triple

mrheosuper
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 1 min ago
Joined: 09/30/2016 - 12:44
Posts: 1240
Location: Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

imo this led is suitable for compact thrower, like keychain AA light with 200m throw
i would want to see some ridiculous pencil beam, maybe modding it to BLF GT

Forgot my pen

luminarium iaculator
luminarium iaculator's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 39 sec ago
Joined: 07/07/2013 - 09:09
Posts: 2099
Location: X

Nice test guys (Enderman and Koef3)

It is so tiny Sad

What I don’t like about that OSram leds is small size and annoying emitter angle looks like bitten off .

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

Old-Lumens

koef3
koef3's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 7 hours ago
Joined: 08/28/2017 - 14:04
Posts: 138
Location: Cologne, Germany

mrheosuper wrote:
imo this led is suitable for compact thrower, like keychain AA light with 200m throw
i would want to see some ridiculous pencil beam, maybe modding it to BLF GT

In my test linked from Enderman in OP post are pictures from a modded Tillytec light with this mentioned pencil beam.
Measurements: 11 kLux at 101 lm, LED current max. 500 mAmps.

The handling of the SYNIOS is somewhat difficult, but is possible. At this point the Luxeon Z ES is much more complicated in reflow…

My LED tests: Cree SC5 based LEDs (WIP!)  ---  Nichia 319AT 83 CRI - Optisolis (3000/5000 K) - Lumileds Luxeon LXML-PWD9 - Luxeon MZ 5700 K (90 CRI, 3 V) - Luxeon V (CSP) 4000 K 70CRI - Luminus SST-40-W (+ dedomed) - Cree XP-L2 (+ High CRI variant) - XHP35 HI - XHP70.2 - CXA1304 COB - OSRAM OSLON Black Flat HWQP - SYNIOS DMLQ31.SGLE UW Q8WP - unknown 5050 LED ---- finished: JAXMAN M8 (Mini C8) HighCRI Triple

joechina
Online
Last seen: 14 min 28 sec ago
Joined: 03/05/2016 - 08:23
Posts: 1172
Location: Germany

@enderman
In your post in the german forum:
You should replace “schwarzen Wohnung” with “Black Flat”
Google translate doesn’t know its LEDs
Smile

Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 21 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 3491
Location: Vancouver, Canada

The_Driver wrote:
Nice test! Although I knew that Köf3s results were pretty accurate (he goes to a lot of effort).

Have you compared the emission profile to that of Black Flat?


I tried to do a measurement of the black flat but for some reason the LED I reflowed turned blue and died so I basically spent the rest of my time re-reflowing another black flat.
Maybe I should have let it warm up a bit more since it was the first time turning on, or maybe the reflow was bad and the driver provided all 12v.
Not sure if I will have more time to test it again.

koef3 wrote:
Thanks for the test. – And the confirmation of my measurements, too Wink
To be honest, this LED isn’t suitable for many flashlights, not only because of the center rings needed to get the LED die exactly in the center of the reflector. The quality of reflectors or lenses must also be as high as possible, otherwise there are lot of artifacts (rings etc) in the light pattern.

Could be interesting for little keychain pocket or low current throwers. Because of the very high thermal resistance of typ. 20 K/W I wouldn’t give the SYNIOS more than 650 – 750 mAmps.

Thank you Smile your tests are super useful, I was just unsure because the lumens/mm^2 didn’t match up with the intensity when compared to the black flat.
But nope, it definitely is as good as expected Smile
I may put one in my P5r.2 to see how much throw I can get from my EDC flashlight. 750mA sounds appropriate, the cooling in a flashlight is significantly worse.

mrheosuper wrote:
imo this led is suitable for compact thrower, like keychain AA light with 200m throw
i would want to see some ridiculous pencil beam, maybe modding it to BLF GT
My P5r.2 produces 200lm and has 240m of throw, I wonder how much I can get with the synios!
Maybe like 300-400m which would be amazing from a tiny 14500 flashlight.
That’s a mod on my list of to-dos Smile

luminarium iaculator wrote:
Nice test guys (Enderman and Koef3)

It is so tiny Sad

What I don’t like about that OSram leds is small size and annoying emitter angle looks like bitten off .

Thank you Smile If you use a wavien collar it makes the notch not visible Wink

joechina wrote:
@enderman
In your post in the german forum:
You should replace “schwarzen Wohnung” with “Black Flat”
Google translate doesn’t know its LEDs
Smile
Thanks!
Agro
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 33 min ago
Joined: 05/14/2017 - 11:16
Posts: 2948
Location: Ślōnsk

Enderman wrote:
luminarium iaculator wrote:
Nice test guys (Enderman and Koef3)

It is so tiny Sad

What I don’t like about that OSram leds is small size and annoying emitter angle looks like bitten off .

Thank you Smile If you use a wavien collar it makes the notch not visible Wink

Why?
koef3
koef3's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 7 hours ago
Joined: 08/28/2017 - 14:04
Posts: 138
Location: Cologne, Germany

Enderman wrote:
your tests are super useful

Thanks so much. Smile

In the next weeks / months I will post more tests of some LEDs here. In the german forum I’m not longer active anymore. But – the next Osram LED is waiting on my heatsink. Smile

Enderman wrote:
My P5r.2 produces 200lm and has 240m of throw, I wonder how much I can get with the synios!
Maybe like 300-400m which would be amazing from a tiny 14500 flashlight.

I think you mean the Ledlenser P5R.2?

I have a lot of experience and knowledge in modding of Ledlenser flashlights. Some time ago I experimented with very small dies (XP-E / XP-C dedomed, SYNIOS red) in Ledlenser flashlights with bigger lenses (P7.2/P14.2 and MT14). In almost every case the light pattern is – especially in case of the P14.2 – bad and not really useful. There are visible rings and dark spots if the light is half-focussed.
The only really helpful solution I got is to frost the lens, so the artifacts aren’t so clearly visible. Unfortunately with this technique the throw is significantly reduced, too. Sad

My LED tests: Cree SC5 based LEDs (WIP!)  ---  Nichia 319AT 83 CRI - Optisolis (3000/5000 K) - Lumileds Luxeon LXML-PWD9 - Luxeon MZ 5700 K (90 CRI, 3 V) - Luxeon V (CSP) 4000 K 70CRI - Luminus SST-40-W (+ dedomed) - Cree XP-L2 (+ High CRI variant) - XHP35 HI - XHP70.2 - CXA1304 COB - OSRAM OSLON Black Flat HWQP - SYNIOS DMLQ31.SGLE UW Q8WP - unknown 5050 LED ---- finished: JAXMAN M8 (Mini C8) HighCRI Triple

Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 21 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 3491
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Agro wrote:

Why?

The wavien collar projects an inverted image onto the die. That means the opposite corner of the LED is being reflected onto the notch, and since the substrate is white it is very reflective and the spot turns out to be a perfect square Smile

koef3 wrote:

Thanks so much. Smile
In the next weeks / months I will post more tests of some LEDs here. In the german forum I’m not longer active anymore. But – the next Osram LED is waiting on my heatsink. Smile

I think you mean the Ledlenser P5R.2?
I have a lot of experience and knowledge in modding of Ledlenser flashlights. Some time ago I experimented with very small dies (XP-E / XP-C dedomed, SYNIOS red) in Ledlenser flashlights with bigger lenses (P7.2/P14.2 and MT14). In almost every case the light pattern is – especially in case of the P14.2 – bad and not really useful. There are visible rings and dark spots if the light is half-focussed.
The only really helpful solution I got is to frost the lens, so the artifacts aren’t so clearly visible. Unfortunately with this technique the throw is significantly reduced, too. Sad


Yay more LED tests! Thanks!
Yeah my EDC is the led lenser P5r.2, it’s the farthest throwing flashlight of that size that I could find, and has very long runtime at max (due to the low lumen output)
I never use the light half focused though, it is always either fully unfocused or fully spot.
I love the P5r.2.
.
I considered putting the TIR from the led lenser into a MH12GT and then modding it with a black flat, however I don’t know if I will be able to open the MH12GT without damaging the head because they use red loctite Sad
That would be an amazing flashlight IMO, more throw than anything else that size with 1” head. Making a focusing system for the MH12GT would be hard though.
Agro
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 33 min ago
Joined: 05/14/2017 - 11:16
Posts: 2948
Location: Ślōnsk

Enderman wrote:
Agro wrote:

Why?

The wavien collar projects an inverted image onto the die. That means the opposite corner of the LED is being reflected onto the notch, and since the substrate is white it is very reflective and the spot turns out to be a perfect square Smile

Interesting, thanks
The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 25 min 59 sec ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1208
Location: Germany

koef3 wrote:
In the german forum I’m not longer active anymore.
Crying
luminarium iaculator
luminarium iaculator's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 39 sec ago
Joined: 07/07/2013 - 09:09
Posts: 2099
Location: X

koef3

Please find us decent replacement for old XP- G2… You are great loss for TLF and great win for BLF Thumbs Up

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

Old-Lumens

koef3
koef3's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 7 hours ago
Joined: 08/28/2017 - 14:04
Posts: 138
Location: Cologne, Germany

luminarium iaculator wrote:
koef3

Please find us decent replacement for old XP- G2… You are great loss for TLF and great win for BLF Thumbs Up

Yeah, I will do my very best. Smile
@Enderman: Please insert the Synios Type DMLN31.SG in thread title, because there are some other Synios LED available in market, to avoid misunderstanding.

One of them (DML*Q*31.SG) I have tested yesterday – with a surprising high luminance (approx 330-350 cd/mm^2) at 450 lumens. Test coming in a few days…

My LED tests: Cree SC5 based LEDs (WIP!)  ---  Nichia 319AT 83 CRI - Optisolis (3000/5000 K) - Lumileds Luxeon LXML-PWD9 - Luxeon MZ 5700 K (90 CRI, 3 V) - Luxeon V (CSP) 4000 K 70CRI - Luminus SST-40-W (+ dedomed) - Cree XP-L2 (+ High CRI variant) - XHP35 HI - XHP70.2 - CXA1304 COB - OSRAM OSLON Black Flat HWQP - SYNIOS DMLQ31.SGLE UW Q8WP - unknown 5050 LED ---- finished: JAXMAN M8 (Mini C8) HighCRI Triple

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 59 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 13582
Location: Amsterdam

Thanks for the work in the OP Enderman, I had read köf3’s test on TLF and it is great to see a confirmation. My next RS order will include some of these leds.

@koef3, I do not have an idea what made you leave TLF (I have not much impression on what happens over there) but I’m certainly delighted to see your thorough and well presented led tests here on BLF! Smile

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 21 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 3491
Location: Vancouver, Canada

koef3 wrote:

Yeah, I will do my very best. Smile
@Enderman: Please insert the Synios Type DMLN31.SG in thread title, because there are some other Synios LED available in market, to avoid misunderstanding.

One of them (DML*Q*31.SG) I have tested yesterday – with a surprising high luminance (approx 330-350 cd/mm^2) at 450 lumens. Test coming in a few days…


Done Smile
Sounds like I’m going to have to order some new LEDs from mouser again…lol
Are you planning to test the DMLS too?

djozz wrote:
Thanks for the work in the OP Enderman, I had read köf3’s test on TLF and it is great to see a confirmation. My next RS order will include some of these leds.

Smile thank you!
koef3
koef3's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 7 hours ago
Joined: 08/28/2017 - 14:04
Posts: 138
Location: Cologne, Germany

The DMLS is also on my to-do list, and I got this LED already. Also I measured this type, but there aren’t surprises in luminance or light flux. The thermal resistance limits the possible maximum power so I can not recommend this emitter.

But I haven’t such an amount of time to write a complete test of all SYNIOS, but I’ll see what I can do. Smile

My LED tests: Cree SC5 based LEDs (WIP!)  ---  Nichia 319AT 83 CRI - Optisolis (3000/5000 K) - Lumileds Luxeon LXML-PWD9 - Luxeon MZ 5700 K (90 CRI, 3 V) - Luxeon V (CSP) 4000 K 70CRI - Luminus SST-40-W (+ dedomed) - Cree XP-L2 (+ High CRI variant) - XHP35 HI - XHP70.2 - CXA1304 COB - OSRAM OSLON Black Flat HWQP - SYNIOS DMLQ31.SGLE UW Q8WP - unknown 5050 LED ---- finished: JAXMAN M8 (Mini C8) HighCRI Triple

A380
A380's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 min 52 sec ago
Joined: 01/02/2012 - 16:48
Posts: 98
Location: Sabadell, Catalonia.
koef3 wrote:
One of them (DML*Q*31.SG) I have tested yesterday – with a surprising high luminance (approx 330-350 cd/mm^2) at 450 lumens. Test coming in a few days…

If DMLN31.SG is about 200 lumens and 290 cd/mm^2, this new led is a real improvement for throw.

Anxious to read the test! Thumbs Up

Agro
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 33 min ago
Joined: 05/14/2017 - 11:16
Posts: 2948
Location: Ślōnsk

Can’t wait to read the test too. My very rough estimate of this LED with Khatod PL1670UN shows 35 kcd. Killer for the size.
Good to have you here koef3, welcome. Smile

luminarium iaculator
luminarium iaculator's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 39 sec ago
Joined: 07/07/2013 - 09:09
Posts: 2099
Location: X

Koef3… is Christmas present for BLF Thumbs Up

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

Old-Lumens