Living a lithium hell

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JudgeDredd
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Living a lithium hell

Every time I need to buy lithium batteries, it’s the same trouble: no one ships to my country.
Now I have built a few quadcopters that can’t fly, and bought a few flashlights that can’t light.

Last time I was successful was during a trip to the US, and I had to bring a bunch of lipos in my hand luggage. Too much of a hassle to do that every time.

Banggood, Gearbest, Fasttech, ebay, you name it, I have tried everyone!
And of course I’m not alone: lots of people from several countries experience the same, such as in Australia and many others south american countries, as I have seen people complaining in this and other forums. Even vendors in Brazil are having lots of trouble replenishing their inventories.

But why??? Are batteries more dangerous in the southern hemisphere?

And the US are funny: “Batteries in, OK! Batteries out, NO WAY!”
Everybody can buy tons from China, free shipping. But they can’t sell abroad. (Or at best you can buy some, if you accept paying more for shipping than for the product itself.)

So, why is all this this way? Why are dangerous products not so dangerous in some places, or are in one direction but not in the opposite? Is there any hope for a change? Or is it getting worse?

Alienon2wheels
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You’re not the only one.

India definitely has little choice for li-ion cells. There are some the leak through the blockade, but those are mostly kept for personal use, I think.

Of course, there are the overpriced branded options, which for the most part are good. And few offers on amazon and ebay for the country.

Mostly it is a matter of hunting for them.

Zelda
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Have you also tried https://eu.nkon.nl ?
(Brasil can be selected.)

MascaratumB
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Zelda wrote:
Have you also tried https://eu.nkon.nl ? (Brasil can be selected.)

NKON is great, but…it is super expensive regarding shipment fee!
Even inside Europe / European Union, so to ship abroad must be…$$$$$!
I bought 3 18650 batteries from there: the batteries cost about 14€, and I paid 27€ for batteries + shipping!

JudgeDredd have you tried AliExpress stores? Some do ship to Brazil. It is a matter of seeking what type of batteries do you want and check in some battery stores (Best Power, Varicore, and others…). I’ve ordered some batteries and so far I didn’t have any problem. And shipping fees are usually lower than NKON!
Just a suggestion, though!
Good luck with that Wink

REVIEWS : Amutorch S3 /  AM S3 vs Neal 219c  /  Amutorch AM30 / Nitefox UT20 / Sofirn SF14 & SP10A / Sofirn SP32A / Sofirn SP10B / Odepro KL52 / Acebeam H20 / SS AAA / Wuben TO10R / BlitzWolf BW-ET1 / Odepro B018 / DQG Slim Ti / XTAR PB2 Charger / Nitefox ES10K / Nitefox K3 / Amutorch AX1 / Amutorch VG10 / Olight M2R Warrior   

Mods and tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7     Convoy S2+ TIR Lenses: XML2 / XPL-HI     Others: Convoy S2+ Mini (Biscotti 3 & 1*7135)     Sofirn K6 Discussion: 1 / 2 / 3    Triple TIR & XP-G2                   MY GIVEAWAY (FW3A) = ACTIVE

DB Custom said: "Hide your billfold, cut up your credit cards... you're a perfect candidate for full blown flashaholism and will soon need dedicated flashlight cabinets. [...] Have fun! Modding is next... :P" 

 

Lexel
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I just imagined how lithium batteries shipped over sea must be if a full container with them going to start fireworks as one battery fails starting a chain reaction
and then they wont ship small amounts of them in a plane with fire suppression systems

Hunter
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Several years back a plane or two went down, they never found black box or victims,
somebody said then, “it must be that pallet of lithium ion batteries that was on board
caught on fire”, and that was the moment, someone said, everybody believed.
From that on everything went downhill fast.

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Alienon2wheels wrote:
India definitely has little choice for li-ion cells.

Which is why I rip them out from powerbanks. I usually get LG 3350mAh cells when taking from Xiaomi.

and on the first day he said "Let there be light"...

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Hunter wrote:
Several years back a plane or two went down, they never found black box or victims, somebody said then, “it must be that pallet of lithium ion batteries that was on board caught on fire”, and that was the moment, someone said, everybody believed. From that on everything went downhill fast.

From a recent The Independent article

Quote:
Laurie Price, former Aviation Advisor to the Transport Select Committee and himself a private pilot, told The Independent at the time: “We have had numerous incidents of devices with lithium batteries suddenly bursting into flames[…] If in the aircraft hold, the fire-suppression systems are unlikely to be able to contain it…

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/donald-trump-commerc...

Seems not to be that uncommon

RobertB
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Hunter wrote:
Several years back a plane or two went down, they never found black box or victims, somebody said then, “it must be that pallet of lithium ion batteries that was on board caught on fire”, and that was the moment, someone said, everybody believed. From that on everything went downhill fast.

Hoverboards, E-cig devices, and Phone batteries catching on fire haven’t helped the situation either. It has nothing to do with what the public believes, everything to do with what aircraft industry experts believe. MH370 was carrying 221 kilos (487 lbs) of Lipo packs.

“Here’s a little more on it, and two other aircraft that they know crashed because of lithium battery fires/explosions

https://www.joc.com/air-cargo/lithium-battery-cargo-carried-missing-mala...

Here’s a screen shot of the short article in case the link won’t let you read it.

part1

part2

part3

It’s very possible that finding an air cargo carrier that is willing to transport them is becoming more difficult, even though it may be legal for them to do so. It’s also possible the insurance companies who insure these multi million dollar cargo aircraft and their Crews, are putting restrictions on them and costing air cargo companies more to transport dangerous cargo. Just a guess.

kennybobby
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@JD
Cleaned up Tesla cells from Netherlands here:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=942418#post942418

Speadge
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Try one of those “offical Liitokala (VariCore, Colaier) store” at aliexpress. There’s several of them.
With most of them you can get as example liitokala repack of Sanyo NCR18650GA 3500mAh and some other lithium batteries relatively cheaply.
Shipping with tracking included is usually free of charge, but there’s required some patience as shipping to EU as example takes around 5 – 6 weeks.

Example:

Sanyo NCR18650GA 3500mAh
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4PCS-100-Original-LiitoKala-Lii-35A-3-7V...

Samsung INR18650 35E 3500mAh
https://13510646755.aliexpress.com/store/group/INR-18650-35E-3500mAh/310...

Samsung INR18650 30Q 3000mAh
https://13510646755.aliexpress.com/store/group/INR-18650-30Q-3000mAh/310...

Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh – protected
https://13510646755.aliexpress.com/store/group/NCR18650B-PCB-3400mAh/310...

LiitoKala 26650 …
https://13510646755.aliexpress.com/store/group/Lii-50A/3103064_511822611...

WalkIntoTheLight
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None of those links above will ship to Canada. I feel the OP’s pain. Selection in Canada (mostly from vape shops) is very limited and expensive. There are some options for ordering from the US, but shipping is expensive.

I think I’ll have to stop buying 18650 lights. I like AA lights for general-purpose use, but you just can’t get both pocketability + high output (and good run time) from them.

johny723
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If somebody shipped lithium batteries to those countries, would it be a problem?

MascaratumB
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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
None of those links above will ship to Canada. I feel the OP’s pain. Selection in Canada (mostly from vape shops) is very limited and expensive. There are some options for ordering from the US, but shipping is expensive.

I think I’ll have to stop buying 18650 lights. I like AA lights for general-purpose use, but you just can’t get both pocketability + high output (and good run time) from them.

I was checking on AliExpress and some stores seem to have “free shipping” or small fees for Brasil and Canada! Lots of the others others are really expensive, I’m sorry for you situation and all the other members that are not able to buy they or at least with small shipping fees Facepalm
I hope this helps on searching Wink

BRASIL:
- https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1359905?spm=2114.10010108.0.0.7a4af25aN...
- https://www.aliexpress.com/store/334042?spm=2114.10010108.0.0.7c9add08rQ...
- https://www.aliexpress.com/store/3216007?spm=2114.10010108.0.0.2eb6b28bK...
- https://sunway.aliexpress.com/store/3173029?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.7338d4...
- https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1969247?spm=2114.10010108.0.0.1eece3adi...
- https://www.aliexpress.com/store/3213027?spm=2114.10010108.0.0.2afeb6a3w...
- https://www.aliexpress.com/store/2611035?spm=2114.10010108.0.0.5daef00an...
.
.
.
CANADA:
- https://www.aliexpress.com/store/3213027?spm=2114.10010108.0.0.2eb0b905H...
- https://sunway.aliexpress.com/store/3173029?spm=2114.10010108.0.0.1d9acd...
- https://www.aliexpress.com/store/334042?spm=2114.10010108.0.0.4f8cbfc7hc...

EDIT: I just noticed that not all of the batteries from these stores can be shipped. In my search, the ones that appeared the most were Samsung 30Q and Sony VTC6 unprotected. If you go to search on these stores, search for those in particular. Now I understand your pain Facepalm

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Mods and tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7     Convoy S2+ TIR Lenses: XML2 / XPL-HI     Others: Convoy S2+ Mini (Biscotti 3 & 1*7135)     Sofirn K6 Discussion: 1 / 2 / 3    Triple TIR & XP-G2                   MY GIVEAWAY (FW3A) = ACTIVE

DB Custom said: "Hide your billfold, cut up your credit cards... you're a perfect candidate for full blown flashaholism and will soon need dedicated flashlight cabinets. [...] Have fun! Modding is next... :P" 

 

WalkIntoTheLight
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Okay, I see that some can ship to Canada. ~ $10 US shipping, which is cheaper than from the US.

I had my credit card hacked the only time I used it on Ali, so I’m a little hesitant to buy from there now. Too bad they didn’t accept PayPal.

MascaratumB
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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
Okay, I see that some can ship to Canada. ~ $10 US shipping, which is cheaper than from the US.

I had my credit card hacked the only time I used it on Ali, so I’m a little hesitant to buy from there now. Too bad they didn’t accept PayPal.

Yeah, some are cheaper! But most of the stores takes more than 48€ (maybe USD $50 ?) to ship them.
Hum, can you use any “program” to create a virtual credit/debit card from your account?
I’m using one of those apps/services after my bank stopped allowing direct payment for online shopping. In other stores (BG or GB) I use PayPal, but on AliExpress I use those “1 time use “ cards.

Some time ago SB created this thread, maybe it can help you: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/56890!

REVIEWS : Amutorch S3 /  AM S3 vs Neal 219c  /  Amutorch AM30 / Nitefox UT20 / Sofirn SF14 & SP10A / Sofirn SP32A / Sofirn SP10B / Odepro KL52 / Acebeam H20 / SS AAA / Wuben TO10R / BlitzWolf BW-ET1 / Odepro B018 / DQG Slim Ti / XTAR PB2 Charger / Nitefox ES10K / Nitefox K3 / Amutorch AX1 / Amutorch VG10 / Olight M2R Warrior   

Mods and tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7     Convoy S2+ TIR Lenses: XML2 / XPL-HI     Others: Convoy S2+ Mini (Biscotti 3 & 1*7135)     Sofirn K6 Discussion: 1 / 2 / 3    Triple TIR & XP-G2                   MY GIVEAWAY (FW3A) = ACTIVE

DB Custom said: "Hide your billfold, cut up your credit cards... you're a perfect candidate for full blown flashaholism and will soon need dedicated flashlight cabinets. [...] Have fun! Modding is next... :P" 

 

Ronin42
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Soooo

  1. open a special import export company for Li-on cells ? (an opportunity?)
  2. buy power banks with good cells I buy the Innogie 13400 to get 3350 cells (btw I have two that’s 4 cells each if someone wants them) PM me
  3. it seems some are available but due to laws or insurance the shipping to some paces just costs more (remember we don’t live in a perfect world)
  4. start an educational movement to change the laws in your country (or become a lobbyist for the companies who will pay for such lobbyist)

(“It’s good that most people can’t remember their previous lives. Otherwise
things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo)

Persechini
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I have made battery purchases 3 times, each shipped from a different Aliexpress seller because they usually change shipping methods frequently. Most can ship to Brasil when Turkish post is available as an option, but it comes and goes. The last purchase is running very late and I’m afraid it will not arrive at all, so that is always a risk with these purchases. The best seller I had was the official official liitokala AE store (the one marked as top brand), I should have ordered a lot more at the time, it arrives fast and easy, shipping and product weren’t expensive, but they will only very rarely have turkish post available, if you miss the windows, you’ll have to start your research all over again

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My collectionEmisar: D4 / D1 / D4 (broken) ― Convoy: C8 Clear / S2+ Clear / S2+ / S2+ UV / S6 ― Nitecore: Tube / Thumb / Concept 1 / HC30 / HC33 / TIP / TIP CRI / TINI ― Lumintop: Tool AAA / Tool AA / HLAAA / EDC05 ― Sofirn: SF10 / SF12 / SF12 / SF14 / SF14 / SF14 / SP10A / SP10A (gifted) ― Jaxman: E3 ― UTorch: UT01 ― Trustfire: Z2 ― Skyfire: SF-065 (trashed)

JudgeDredd
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MascaratumB wrote:
JudgeDredd have you tried AliExpress stores?

The problem with Aliexpress is the same as with ebay: the few sellers available to me are charging between 50 and 70 USD for shipping!

Except for this one (yes, only one!), which I have not tried yet:
https://m.aliexpress.com/store/3173029#/

Anyway, it is really annoying being excluded from the cheap battery party that goes on the “Commercial Sellers’ Spot” on this forum.

Edit: MascaratumB, I have just checked your links, and besides the one I listed above, there are 2 or 3 more that seem reliable and might be useful. Thanks.

JudgeDredd
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Speadge wrote:
Try one of those “offical Liitokala (VariCore, Colaier) store” at aliexpress.

Thanks, but none (!!!) of them ship to my country.

MascaratumB
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JudgeDredd wrote:
MascaratumB wrote:
JudgeDredd have you tried AliExpress stores?

The problem with Aliexpress is the same as with ebay: the few sellers available to me are charging between 50 and 70 USD for shipping!

Except for this one (yes, only one!), which I have not tried yet:
https://m.aliexpress.com/store/3173029#/

Anyway, it is really annoying being excluded from the cheap battery party that goes on the “Commercial Sellers’ Spot” on this forum.

Edit: MascaratumB, I have just checked your links, and besides the one I listed above, there are 2 or 3 more that seem reliable and might be useful. Thanks.

I just hope you can get them buddy Wink As Persechini said, some have the Turkish post, while others have other shipping methods!
Before purchasing , take a look at the reviews to see what sellers say! The batteries seem legit, but it’s better to double check Wink
Anyway, to get them without fee or at low cost is better than nothing I guess Wink
Good luck with that Thumbs Up

REVIEWS : Amutorch S3 /  AM S3 vs Neal 219c  /  Amutorch AM30 / Nitefox UT20 / Sofirn SF14 & SP10A / Sofirn SP32A / Sofirn SP10B / Odepro KL52 / Acebeam H20 / SS AAA / Wuben TO10R / BlitzWolf BW-ET1 / Odepro B018 / DQG Slim Ti / XTAR PB2 Charger / Nitefox ES10K / Nitefox K3 / Amutorch AX1 / Amutorch VG10 / Olight M2R Warrior   

Mods and tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7     Convoy S2+ TIR Lenses: XML2 / XPL-HI     Others: Convoy S2+ Mini (Biscotti 3 & 1*7135)     Sofirn K6 Discussion: 1 / 2 / 3    Triple TIR & XP-G2                   MY GIVEAWAY (FW3A) = ACTIVE

DB Custom said: "Hide your billfold, cut up your credit cards... you're a perfect candidate for full blown flashaholism and will soon need dedicated flashlight cabinets. [...] Have fun! Modding is next... :P" 

 

JudgeDredd
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Zelda wrote:
Have you also tried https://eu.nkon.nl ? (Brasil can be selected.)

Brasil can be selected but… “Your order cannot be completed at this time as there are no shipping methods available for it.”
(I am really getting used to it!)

Thanks anyway.

Edit:
Persechini and Mascaratum,
I am just beginning to realize that AliExpress combined with Turkey Post might indeed be the only solution for now.

MascaratumB
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JudgeDredd wrote:
[…] Edit: Persechini and Mascaratum, I am just beginning to realize that AliExpress combined with Turkey Post might indeed be the only solution for now.

Glad to know that! Cool
Maybe this can also work for other countries that have battery shipping problems Wink

REVIEWS : Amutorch S3 /  AM S3 vs Neal 219c  /  Amutorch AM30 / Nitefox UT20 / Sofirn SF14 & SP10A / Sofirn SP32A / Sofirn SP10B / Odepro KL52 / Acebeam H20 / SS AAA / Wuben TO10R / BlitzWolf BW-ET1 / Odepro B018 / DQG Slim Ti / XTAR PB2 Charger / Nitefox ES10K / Nitefox K3 / Amutorch AX1 / Amutorch VG10 / Olight M2R Warrior   

Mods and tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7     Convoy S2+ TIR Lenses: XML2 / XPL-HI     Others: Convoy S2+ Mini (Biscotti 3 & 1*7135)     Sofirn K6 Discussion: 1 / 2 / 3    Triple TIR & XP-G2                   MY GIVEAWAY (FW3A) = ACTIVE

DB Custom said: "Hide your billfold, cut up your credit cards... you're a perfect candidate for full blown flashaholism and will soon need dedicated flashlight cabinets. [...] Have fun! Modding is next... :P" 

 

Persechini
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My suggestion is, once you find a reliable vendor that ships via turkey post ($4~$9) buy a few extra cells, in case you are planing to grow your collection. Liitokala have very good 3500mAh batteries (either based on the sanyo GA or samsung 35E, can't get a confirmation from them), the Lii-35A. I got 4 when the official liitokala store was shipping to Brazil for a while, regret not having bought more. My last batch was a bit more expensive, both the cells and shipping. But you might get lucky.

 

Here are the links of AE stores I have ordered cells before, bare in mind that most don't ship here anymore:

 

MAN BUY Store (sells Nitecore products, cheap shipping, VERY expensive batteries)
manbuystore.aliexpress.com/store/1934124

China Electronic Store (ordered one cell, never arrived, got refunded, should've know better)
aliexpress.com/store/513871

Best Power (sells keeppower and nitecore batteries, somewhat expensive)
aliexpress.com/store/918105

Liitokala (oficial liitokala, most of the time does not ship batteries to Brazil, but I managed to buy 6 cells here once, fairly priced, but shipping is unavailable most of the time)
liitokalahongkong.aliexpress.com/store/217753

BlueSeni Store (I'm waiting 6 cells from this seller, but does have shipping to Brazil anymore...)
13760394452.aliexpress.com/store/3113003

Lucky Electronics Store (also waiting for more cells, also stopped shipping to Brazil since I made my purchase)
aliexpress.com/store/1191644

 

I'm also thinking of buying a couple of cells from RTD Vapor, who said could ship to Brazil, just not via their e-commerce

 

As you see, most of them are one-shot, I've bought cells where I found opportunity. Unfortunately, I know of no better or sure method for doing so. Oddly, I can find and order 20000mAh+ battery packs with ease...

 

Another option is to salvage used notebook batteries, you might get lucky with cell quality/capacity if it's not too old

In my Tree

My collectionEmisar: D4 / D1 / D4 (broken) ― Convoy: C8 Clear / S2+ Clear / S2+ / S2+ UV / S6 ― Nitecore: Tube / Thumb / Concept 1 / HC30 / HC33 / TIP / TIP CRI / TINI ― Lumintop: Tool AAA / Tool AA / HLAAA / EDC05 ― Sofirn: SF10 / SF12 / SF12 / SF14 / SF14 / SF14 / SP10A / SP10A (gifted) ― Jaxman: E3 ― UTorch: UT01 ― Trustfire: Z2 ― Skyfire: SF-065 (trashed)

eas
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Hunter wrote:
Several years back a plane or two went down, they never found black box or victims, somebody said then, “it must be that pallet of lithium ion batteries that was on board caught on fire”, and that was the moment, someone said, everybody believed. From that on everything went downhill fast.

Ridiculous.

Airplanes are inherently dangerous: Way up in the air where a fall will kill, there isn’t enough oxygen to support consciousness and extremities will quickly freeze, in a vehicle that has to be as light as possible, filled with fuel, traveling at a sufficient fraction of the speed of sound.

That air travel and air freight are safe and routine in practice is only the case because of more than a century of putting safety first (yes, there are notable lapses). It’s a huge accomplishment, not something to trivialize and scoff at.

Too many streetlights, not enough flashlights.

DBSAR
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Same for here in Canada. most every overseas seller no no longer will ship LiIon cells of any type to here, and even lately in some cases when they scan packages at the customs its either confiscated or sent back… I have been unable to buy Lithium Ion cells from anywhere online. ( I ordered from one US seller & they shipped them, but got sent back by our customs.. All the local vape-shops are price gouging now because of that, (High-drain cells like 25R, 30Q, HE2, HE4s, etc. cost nearly 20 bucks EACH here in Canada at the stores.. Sad

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

Barkuti
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Location: Alhama de Murcia, Spain

JudgeDredd, take a look here: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/3110015

I thought you may be able to bear with the shipping quotes I see for Brazil in that store if you look in their sales section and buy a nice lot (like 12 pieces).

Quite recently I ordered an VTC5A six-pack for less than 21€/25$. And, as usual, please don't believe in those optimistic ratings. 

 

Cheers Party

LG
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Location: Vietnam

Does Lumintop’s AliExpress store work for you? https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Battery/2529001_510088187.html

Nobody ships batteries to Vietnam either (not without me coughing up $50/order). I’ve got from this store quite a few batteries of all sizes for cheap with Free shipping (especially cheaper with AE coupon during 11.11 and around May)

JudgeDredd
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Location: Brasil

Persechini,
Thanks, but most of them are not shipping to us at the moment, or are just too expensive. As you said before, it comes and goes.

Barkuti,
Thank you, that might work. But, as you said, shipping will only make sense if ordering a lot, at least 8 or 12.

LG,
Thanks, but they aren’t shipping to me.

So far, the best solution I found is the “Sunway Store” on Aliexpress: free shipping (with tracking) via Turkey Post, and they have 18650 Sony’s and Samsung’s and 26650 Liitokala’s. I hope this might be useful for someone else.

singularity35
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Location: Philippines

Thanks for the links. Same problem here. I’ll give them a try.

Chuck Roxas

WalkIntoTheLight
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Location: Canada
JudgeDredd wrote:
So far, the best solution I found is the “Sunway Store” on Aliexpress: free shipping (with tracking) via Turkey Post, and they have 18650 Sony’s and Samsung’s and 26650 Liitokala’s. I hope this might be useful for someone else.

Yes, thank you! They ship to Canada, too. I was hoping to find some Panasonic GA’s, but perhaps I should snap up some more Samsung 30Q’s while I can.

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