Future development of the maximum luminance of LEDs

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The_Driver
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The tint should be quite nice for a cool white, low-cri LED. I have not seen anything better of this kind.

Texas_Ace
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Thanks for the info, I will need to order some and try them myself. Might be worth trying them in some lights.

Hmm, MT18 with these could be interesting for example.

SKV89
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That would be a super exciting mod. 18 of those emitters hopefully can get 300+kcd in a big fat hotspot with no spill. Definitely one of a kind!

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ZozzV6 wrote:
I just tried them. In the GT mini I got 219 kcd with it but it need to raise the reflector a bit.

Hey, do you mean the gap between the LED PCB and the reflector should be increased? Or should the LED be raised inside/deeper in the reflector?
ZozzV6 wrote:
GT mini with Emisar D1S reflector. You can see the beam thinner as going away from light so it need to raise the reflector a bit.

So is this usually the way to determine if you should raise or lower the LED inside the reflector? If the beam is going thinner, then raise the LED; if it is going wider too quickly, lower the LED?

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Lothar wrote:
ZozzV6 wrote:
I just tried them. In the GT mini I got 219 kcd with it but it need to raise the reflector a bit.

Hey, do you mean the gap between the LED PCB and the reflector should be increased? Or should the LED be raised inside/deeper in the reflector?
ZozzV6 wrote:
GT mini with Emisar D1S reflector. You can see the beam thinner as going away from light so it need to raise the reflector a bit.

So is this usually the way to determine if you should raise or lower the LED inside the reflector? If the beam is going thinner, then raise the LED; if it is going wider too quickly, lower the LED?

First question: increase distance between led MCPCB and reflector.
Second: opposite what you written. But you cent raise the led or lower you only can play with reflector by the centering ring thiskness. Or stick tape layers around the led under the centering ring. That is what I have done.
Texas_Ace
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For the new Flat white, Does anyone know what the model number would be for the “perfect” version?

I am thinking about sending it to a manufacture I am working with for a new light but obviously want them to get the best version of the LED if possible.

I did not see a model number break down in the datasheet like some LED’s.

djozz
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Maybe there is just one version, like with the Black Flat white. The Black Flat got an upgrade at some point, that is why there are two model numbers.

Texas_Ace
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djozz wrote:
Maybe there is just one version, like with the Black Flat white. The Black Flat got an upgrade at some point, that is why there are two model numbers.

That is possible, although how do you specify the tint bin and flux bin in that case?

I guess I can just tell them the flux and tint bins we want and see what they can find.

SKV89
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I believe for the tint bins you just specify the Color Chromaticity Groups on page 6 of the spec sheet. fcbB46 is the warmest but is entirely above the BBL so will be greenish. The ebzB46 is 2nd warmest and is just a tad bit under the BBL but might still look green under reflector/optics. The ebxD46 is 3rd warmest and is what Led4Power is selling , which I think is the best tint bin since even in any reflector/optic, it will still not be green.

Led4power sells the 6N flux bin. The highest is 7N so would be sweet if the flashlight manufacturers can procure those since they are buying in large quantities.

Here is what is shown on the packaging.

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Great, that shows what I need. Looks like the info we need is under the Bin1: label.

7N-ebxD46-15-A00

I will toss it out there and see what they find.

SKV89
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Will be sweet if they can acquire that! But even the 6N bin from L4P has been pretty stellar. I just did a search for this emitter and found two other places that sell them.

Mouser sells the KW CSLNM1.TG-8M7N-ebvF46fcbB46-15B5, which basically means it can be any flux bin from the lowest 8M 250lm-280lm@1A to the highest 7N 355-400lm@1A, any chromacity bin from the coolest ebvF46 to to the warmest fcbB46, and any forward voltage group from the lowest “15” 2.75V-3V@1A to the highest “B5” 3.25-3.5V@1A. Why would anyone want to buy from Mouser with so much uncertainty?

Avnet sells the KW CSLNM1.TG-6N7N-EBVF46EBXD46 which has tighter specifications 6N to 7N flux bin and the cooler two chromacity bins, but it doesn’t say what the forward voltage group is.

I’m surprised how a small shop like L4P was able to obtain superior binning than the bigger folks.

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Note that Osram makes LEDs that should be potentially better than White Flat:

  • KW CSLPM1.TG
  • Oslon Boost HX

For some applications KW CELNM1.TG would be better as well.

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SVK, I think that Mouser simply puts in a bulk order and does not really care what they get, they just want something with maximum margins so they can see the demand. They rarely have the best bins or tints of any LED.

Agro, Interesting, what footprint are those? 3535? Do they also have a neutral thermal pad? That is what is making me consider the white flat. The black flat was just too much hassle to work with.

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OK, the above may not be fully correct as it was written from memory. I now refreshed that with datasheets.

  • White flat CSLNM1.TG
    • 1 mm²
    • 3030
  • CSLPM1.TG
    • White Flat’s larger brother
    • 2 mm²
    • 3030
    • die is not square
  • CELNM1.TG
    • 1 mm²
    • 1915
    • datasheet lists bins up to 8F, 12.7% up from white flat’s 7F
  • Boost HX
    • haven’t seen a datasheet
    • 4040
    • latest greatest
Enderman
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Agro wrote:
OK, the above may not be fully correct as it was written from memory. I now refreshed that with datasheets.
  • White flat CSLNM1.TG
    • 1 mm²
    • 3030
  • CSLPM1.TG
    • White Flat’s larger brother
    • 2 mm²
    • 3030
    • die is not square
  • CELNM1.TG
    • 1 mm²
    • 1915
    • datasheet lists bins up to 8F, 12.7% up from white flat’s 7F
  • Boost HX
    • haven’t seen a datasheet
    • 4040
    • latest greatest

The boost HX (real name CULPM1.TG) is just a larger version of the CSLPM1.TG with better cooling for more power capability.
No reason to get a CSLPM1 when the boost HX is announced.
https://dammedia.osram.info/media/resource/hires/osram-dam-6480928/KW%20...

The CELNM1 is the same thing as the CSLNM1 but with a smaller and non-square package with worse cooling. The only reason it seems better on the datasheet is because they list an extra bin, and it’s pretty much impossible to get a high bin from the osram LEDs because they are sold in ranges of bins.
It will simply overvolt worse than a white flat would, and be very difficult to find a PCB for.

Basically the second letter is the physical size of the package:
E = 1915, S = 3030, U = 4040

The fourth letter is the size of the die.
N = 1*1 = 1mm^2, P = 1.25*1.6 = 2mm^2

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Had anyone tried the CSLPM1.TG yet? It looks like it’s available on mouser.

The black and white flat are cool, but they are just not big enough for the builds I’m interested in.

Edit: so this one and the boost hx are both 2mm^2 dies, but the boost hx is square?

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Enderman wrote:
Agro wrote:
OK, the above may not be fully correct as it was written from memory. I now refreshed that with datasheets.
  • White flat CSLNM1.TG
    • 1 mm²
    • 3030
  • CSLPM1.TG
    • White Flat’s larger brother
    • 2 mm²
    • 3030
    • die is not square
  • CELNM1.TG
    • 1 mm²
    • 1915
    • datasheet lists bins up to 8F, 12.7% up from white flat’s 7F
  • Boost HX
    • haven’t seen a datasheet
    • 4040
    • latest greatest

The boost HX (real name CULPM1.TG) is just a larger version of the CSLPM1.TG with better cooling for more power capability.
No reason to get a CSLPM1 when the boost HX is announced.
https://dammedia.osram.info/media/resource/hires/osram-dam-6480928/KW%20...

The CELNM1 is the same thing as the CSLNM1 but with a smaller and non-square package with worse cooling. The only reason it seems better on the datasheet is because they list an extra bin, and it’s pretty much impossible to get a high bin from the osram LEDs because they are sold in ranges of bins.
It will simply overvolt worse than a white flat would, and be very difficult to find a PCB for.

Basically the second letter is the physical size of the package:
E = 1915, S = 3030, U = 4040

The fourth letter is the size of the die.
N = 1*1 = 1mm^2, P = 1.25*1.6 = 2mm^2

Do you have a model number for the Boost HX? What performance do you expect? For some reason I can not view any datasheet from their site, the PDF just refuses to download.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
the PDF just refuses to download.

I rehosted the pdf here : http://dl.free.fr/bUDkZF00x
Click on the box “Valider et télécharger le fichier” to download it.

Enderman
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EasyB wrote:
Had anyone tried the CSLPM1.TG yet? It looks like it’s available on mouser.

The black and white flat are cool, but they are just not big enough for the builds I’m interested in.

Edit: so this one and the boost hx are both 2mm^2 dies, but the boost hx is square?


It’s basically a new version of the Q8WP which koef3 tested here: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/58848
CSLPM1.TG is to the Q8WP what the CSLNM1.TG (white flat) is to the black flat.

The boost HX is the CULPM1.TG, they are not two different LEDs, it has a rectangular die just like the CSLPM1.TG and Q8WP.

Texas_Ace wrote:

Do you have a model number for the Boost HX? What performance do you expect? For some reason I can not view any datasheet from their site, the PDF just refuses to download.

Just google “KW CULPM1.TG” and it’s one of the first few results, a pdf.
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So when can we start expecting the Oslon Boost HX to be available for purchase?

SKV89
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Anyone know where to buy these? Perhaps someone like LED4Power, Richard, or Kaidomain can buy a reel and do a group buy

SKV89
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This is what Vinh (Skylumen.com) said about the White FLat.

Vinh (Skylumen.com) wrote:
Tested in the D4Svn it has 50% less output than XPL HI 6500K but 300% the intensity. Got so excited I ordered 150 because I know it will be very popular despite initial expensive price.
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.

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Oh….

EasyB
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Funny, I just impulse bought 4 of the CSLPM1.TG from mouser last night. Looks like I bought the first 4. Can anyone tell me how the mouser bin compares to the ones available from led4power? I couldn’t make sense of the order code.

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From L4p you can get 5P bin. From mouser – random bin from 7N to 6P.

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led4power wrote:

.

Any numbers with this LED yet?

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Jeez how is led4power getting all these super high bins… Shocked
Now I need to buy this led too!

Still more excited for the CULPM1.TG though, but that’s probably months away, nothing shows up yet:
https://octopart.com/search?q=KW%20CULPM1.TG&start=0

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I need to update the table in the first post. It would be good if we had some actual Luminance values though.

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The_Driver wrote:
I need to update the table in the first post. It would be good if we had some actual Luminance values though.

I’m still waiting on my CSLNM1 LEDs to arrive Sad
I wanna see just how much I can get out of it with some extreme cooling.
7 or 8 amps peak maybe? Silly

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