Zebralight SC5c mk II 4000k ugly green tint

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SKV89
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Zebralight SC5c mk II 4000k ugly green tint

I was so excited to receive my SC5c with XP-L2 4000k with 93-95CRI but once I turned it on, I was immediately disappointed. I compared it side by side with my Armytek Wizard v3 XP-L warm white, BLF A6 XP-L and Emisar D4 XP-L Hi both with 4000k and it was clear that the Zebralight was so much more green than the others which have a beautiful peach tone. I wish I bought the SC5w MK II with 4500k CRI 80 instead. Maybe it wouldn’t have been so greenish yellow. Yuck. The light is bright though. It is very close in brightness to my Thrunite Archer 2A v3 neutral white.

Edited by: SKV89 on 01/26/2018 - 00:28
Snoballz
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It’s amazing how one or two good lights with great tint will spoil you. The green tint probably isn’t noticeable to the average user.

hanoilighting208
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me too, i hate green tint

The gioi den chum trang tri noi that chat luong cao, gia thanh re tai Ha Noi

NeutralFan
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I recommend returning the flashlight back to ZebraLight. They have a unconditional 30 day return policy. I would expect the SC5c to have great tint and would not accept a greenish tint whatsoever! I have 2 ZebraLight flashlights, an SC52w L2 and an SC62w. Both have awesome tints that are neutral white with a hue of rose, not green at all. They are several years old, but still are going strong and tint-wise compare to my Nichia 80+ and 90+ CRI flashlights.

I’ve read of so many people having green tint issues with ZebraLight, the so called “tint lottery”. It’s too bad that this is still occurring and the main reason why I would be afraid to purchase another one.

I’d rather use my flashlight around the house than turn on the lights.

niraya
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Nice tint close to BBL, high CRI and warm CCT may and may not come together.

SKV89
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Given the price is $70, tint lottery is unacceptable. Even the very cheap BLF A6 XPL 4000k have amazing looking tint and color rendering actually looks alot better than the 92-95 CRI Zebralight SC5c mkII! I’m going to ask for an exchange for the Zebralight SC5w mkII with 4500k CRI 80

SKV89
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ERTD wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
I was so excited to receive my SC5c with XP-L2 4000k with 93-95CRI but once I turned it on, I was immediately disappointed. I compared it side by side with my Armytek Wizard v3 XPL3 warm white

XPL3 ? The further, the greener?

Oops typo. I meant XP-L

The_Driver
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If you had checked the datasheet of the XP-L2 and searched for the specifications Zebralight notes for this LED beforehand, you wouldn’t have been surprised. This is a specific problem of 4000K and higher CCT LEDs with Macadam’s Binning, especially with 2-step LEDs (they are all above the BBL).

A LEE Zircon (heat resistant minus-green) Filter should correct the deficit. I have actually done this with a light of mine which has this LED. It worked.

The_Driver
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Nichia has the same problem. The Nichia 219C with 4000K and 3-step Binning has a yellow tint (you can check the datasheet).
Only the older 219Bs with a different kind of Binning had reddish tints.

The_Driver
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Have you actually checked the datasheets? They show what is happening. It’s not Zebralight’s fault. If they used a Nichia LED they could only drive the LED with around 1.5A. Manufacturers usually don’t overdrive LEDs. This would result in a much dimmer flashlight which also has a smaller hotspot.

What you are asking for is not technically possible. There will always be tint variation during production. Zebralight’s is already using the most tightly binned LEDs.

The 219C 4000K R9050 403 (3-step) has a yellow tint above the BBL. It does not perfectly match sunlight @4000K.

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I’ve been pretty lucky with my Zebralights. My SC5w-L2 is a little yellow, but I still like it for its warm tint.

My latest, the SC600w MkIV HI, has a fantastic tint. Warm, with almost no hint of green, and none of the traditional Cree purplish spill.

The “c” Zebralight versions sound nice, but from other reports I’ve read, they are often more green that the “w” version. I’d just stick with the “w” versions, since you often get a better tint and they’re brighter and more efficient. You do lose some CRI, though I find the “w” to be pretty good CRI anyway.

BTW, my SC5w has a nice tint. A little cooler than I expected, and it does have a purplish spill, but there is no green at all in the hotspot or corona.

SKV89
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ERTD wrote:
Not exactly. In fact, 4000K has naturally a yellow tint (based on daylight reference)

With Cree, yellow looks more greenish. I had 3500-4000K and some neutral-white from Cree, they all look greener than any of my Nichia led. Even dough the latest 219C has less red in their formulation, yet the yellow are nice (read pure)

My Jaxman E2L with nichia 219c 4000k actually is more yellow and much less red/peach than my XPL 4000k. Infact the XPL 4000ks in the three flashlights listed above looks far more attractive and neutral especially the Emisar D4 and Wizard Pro v3 XPL. I guess I would have to go with a very inefficient nichia 219b 4000k if I want warm/peach high CRI.

SKV89
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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
I’ve been pretty lucky with my Zebralights. My SC5w-L2 is a little yellow, but I still like it for its warm tint.

My latest, the SC600w MkIV HI, has a fantastic tint. Warm, with almost no hint of green, and none of the traditional Cree purplish spill.

The “c” Zebralight versions sound nice, but from other reports I’ve read, they are often more green that the “w” version. I’d just stick with the “w” versions, since you often get a better tint and they’re brighter and more efficient. You do lose some CRI, though I find the “w” to be pretty good CRI anyway.

BTW, my SC5w has a nice tint. A little cooler than I expected, and it does have a purplish spill, but there is no green at all in the hotspot or corona.

Thanks for letting me know. I will try to exchange for the SC5w. The tint makes a huge difference, I find it more important than CRI.

The_Driver
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I have a modded Armytek Prime C2 (very similar to the Zebralight SC62) with a Nichia 219B-V1 R9080. It’s a nice light, but it gets hot a lot faster now in the highest mode (3A) compared to the stock Cree XP-L. It quickly throttles down because of this. The difference is noticeable.

Modding an XP-L2 light with a filter does not increase the heat as much. The plastic Filter doesn’t heat up the light.

Also, the XP-L2 U6? 4000K 90CRI is still more efficient than a Nichia 219B-V1 when used with a Lee minus-green filter (18% light loss)! At 3A the difference would still be around 190 otf lumens (based off of the 900 otf Lumens of the SC64c). At lower currents like in this SC5c the difference would of course be a bit smaller (percentage wise).

The_Driver
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I am just trying to say that the 219C 4000K 403 does not have a much better tint compared to the XP-L2 4000K 90CRI 2-step. The 219B-V1 is better but much, much less efficient.

Zebralight and Armytek have special drivers which nobody else offers (buck-boost and boost with lots of low modes). So if you want that you gotta buy their lights. If not then there are definitely more economical options which are also easier to mod.

The Nichia 144A 4500K R9050 is nice, but only with a diffused TIR lens. Even then is has a slightly yellow tint.

The E21A is probably the best option.

Bob_McBob
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I recently returned an SC64c because the overall tint from the high CRI XP-L2 was a particularly vile shade of yellow, with a nice rainbow from the centre to the spill.

jon_slider
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NeutralFan wrote:
I’ve read of so many people having green tint issues with ZebraLight, the so called “tint lottery”. It’s too bad that this is still occurring and the main reason why I would be afraid to purchase another one.

Take a look at this post
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/59863
and you will see that Zebras have very low R9, hence lacking red, their yellow and green dominates

nocturne
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Old thread again, but I have to offer up some defense of the SC5c II. You guys are brutal and uncompromising (except for The_Driver, thanks for seeing more than the light). It isn’t like Zebralight is just out to annoy you. And hello Jonathan! \o/

I only just got mine about 2 months ago, haven’t put it down. Also picked up SC53c, and I love the lower mode brightnesses; rather than redundant, I find it very complimentary to SC5c II. The only thing I cannot tolerate is the new, thin, blade-like clip… so I have arranged for thicker aftermarket deep-carry clips. I like the SC5c II so much, I have already bought another and gifted it, and I got two more that will be soon gifted. My non-enlightened friends and girlfriend need to experience owning this premium flashight.

I had a SC5w OP, and I had to give it away because the not-strictly-PWM pulse scheme was giving me migraines, but I use flashlights I think in an odd way, as a room lamp for hours on end. I doubt it would have bothered me if I used a flashlight like I think most do, short periods of pointing the light away from you rather than bouncing off the ceiling.

With the newer SC5c II and SC53c, though I can sometimes notice the pulse scheme when I am walking around outside and catch certain kinds of flying insects in the beam, it does not bother me, no migraine, and I am very anti-PWM, very sensitive to it. So Zebralight changed something, the frequencies I imagine, and now it is not incompatible with my eyes and my brain.

Compared to the only two Nichia 2019b lights I currently have, both 4500K I believe, SC5c II 4000K does appear to have a slight pea-green cast. The effect is more pronounced compared to the 80CRI SC62c that I have, which when compared to the 219b lights has it’s own cast, just ever so slightly yellow. Due to eyes and brain rapidly adjusting white balance, these casts are not noticeable when simply using the light by itself. and I do not care what anyone says, you can’t see it unless you’re wall hunting with the superior R9 Nichia lights. I never wall hunt unless to confirm what the Tint Mafia is selling. Everyone reading this has human eyes and human brains, and human eyes and human brains will very rapidly adjust white balance, so in isolation, these hideous intolerable insulting slight color casts are invisible. All I see is a lovely warmer temperature than I am used to with my Nichia lights.

And what you get is amazing, sooo much runtime on single AA, and so much brightness for single AA, and these incredible sub lumen modes, and a new programmable highly customizable interface. And current regulation for constant brightness! Since I acquired the SC62c years ago, I have said (and I firmly stand by the assessment) that Zebralight has the most advanced and most reliable mass produced flashlights currently in production, and this for years. No other manufacturer yet compares. Prove me wrong by showing me a production flashlight out of the box with a better high CRI emitter (say sw45), current regulation, fully programmable interface, with very low sublumen modes, a near 500Lm high on an AA Eneloop that squeezes out as much runtime, and maybe not built like a tank, but let’s say like an armored car. I’ll buy it.

I don’t understand the tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you’re someone that is only finding what you want by customizing, then customize the SC5w II to your favorite emitter, swap the clip, and be done (not the SC5c, please… just leave it be and gift it). Don’t just walk away disgusted based on one single data point. There are a lot of excellent compelling features to Zebralight beyond the emitter you hate, and I dare you to match them (if there is such a competing flashlight feature for feature at Zebralight’s price point, I want to know about it).

BurningPlayd0h
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-XP-L2 has awful tint in general. The blame may be on Zebralight for choosing that emitter (although I’m sure they had their reasons, considering other great choices they’ve made) but it’s on Cree for the awful bins and tint shift present in it – that said I don’t think it was ever intended for single emitter flashlights that don’t smooth the beam or any fixture where light quality is paramount.

-Few emitters I’ve encountered really have “good tint” and either high CRI or good efficiency – all three is basically unheard of. Minus green filters are the solution to choosing neutral/rosy tint vs literally every other feature in a light.

nocturne
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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
-XP-L2 has awful tint in general. The blame may be on Zebralight for choosing that emitter (although I’m sure they had their reasons, considering other great choices they’ve made) but it’s on Cree for the awful bins and tint shift present in it – that said I don’t think it was ever intended for single emitter flashlights that don’t smooth the beam or any fixture where light quality is paramount.

I think The_Driver gives a pretty good explanation for Zebralight’s choice, and an incredibly simple solution to tint complaints

The_Driver wrote:
If they used a Nichia LED they could only drive the LED with around 1.5A. Manufacturers usually don’t overdrive LEDs. This would result in a much dimmer flashlight which also has a smaller hotspot….

…There will always be tint variation during production. Zebralight’s is already using the most tightly binned LEDs.

The_Driver wrote:
Modding an XP-L2 light with a filter does not increase the heat … The plastic Filter doesn’t heat up the light…

…the XP-L2 U6? 4000K 90CRI is still more efficient than a Nichia 219B-V1 when used with a Lee minus-green filter (18% light loss)! At 3A the difference would still be around 190 otf lumens (based off of the 900 otf Lumens of the SC64c). At lower currents like in this SC5c the difference would of course be a bit smaller (percentage wise).

So add a Lee minus-green filter to adjust the tint to your preference.

BurningPlayd0h wrote:
-Few emitters I’ve encountered really have “good tint” and either high CRI or good efficiency – all three is basically unheard of. Minus green filters are the solution to choosing neutral/rosy tint vs literally every other feature in a light.

You’re no stranger to filters. But this light sucks, and so do all the others? You’re modding then. Yet the tint still overshadows all of Zebralights other features? What are you carrying? Is it possible to make you and other tint critics satisfied?

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nocturne wrote:
BurningPlayd0h wrote:
-XP-L2 has awful tint in general. The blame may be on Zebralight for choosing that emitter (although I’m sure they had their reasons, considering other great choices they’ve made) but it’s on Cree for the awful bins and tint shift present in it – that said I don’t think it was ever intended for single emitter flashlights that don’t smooth the beam or any fixture where light quality is paramount.

I think The_Driver gives a pretty good explanation for Zebralight’s choice, and an incredibly simple solution to tint complaints

The_Driver wrote:
If they used a Nichia LED they could only drive the LED with around 1.5A. Manufacturers usually don’t overdrive LEDs. This would result in a much dimmer flashlight which also has a smaller hotspot….

…There will always be tint variation during production. Zebralight’s is already using the most tightly binned LEDs.

The_Driver wrote:
Modding an XP-L2 light with a filter does not increase the heat … The plastic Filter doesn’t heat up the light…

…the XP-L2 U6? 4000K 90CRI is still more efficient than a Nichia 219B-V1 when used with a Lee minus-green filter (18% light loss)! At 3A the difference would still be around 190 otf lumens (based off of the 900 otf Lumens of the SC64c). At lower currents like in this SC5c the difference would of course be a bit smaller (percentage wise).

So add a Lee minus-green filter to adjust the tint to your preference.

BurningPlayd0h wrote:
-Few emitters I’ve encountered really have “good tint” and either high CRI or good efficiency – all three is basically unheard of. Minus green filters are the solution to choosing neutral/rosy tint vs literally every other feature in a light.

You’re no stranger to filters. But this light sucks, and so do all the others? You’re modding then. Yet the tint still overshadows all of Zebralights other features? What are you carrying? Is it possible to make you and other tint critics satisfied?

I just hope ZL uses the LH351D or something comparable in more of their lights next generation, it’s still superior in many ways with only a slight efficiency sacrifice.

I think I chose my words poorly – filters allow me to completely disregard whether the particular emitters on a light I’m interested in have good tint, whether I can reflow something else, etc. The biggest pro of that is being able to always pick CRI over tint, since the latter can be improved very easily.

The 10-15% hit in output is almost imperceptible as far as I can tell. I carry a 64 LE or a H600c most of the time.

nocturne
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Looking around for AA lights today. Only Lumintop AA Tool and Fenix E21 seem to have constant current, and besides McGizmo Haiku AA (also constant current) and Zebralight SC5c/w II & SC53c/w, I don’t see any that are current regulated.

Anyone know of any other current regulated single AA lights?

id30209
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nocturne wrote:
Looking around for AA lights today. Only Lumintop AA Tool and Fenix E21 seem to have constant current, and besides McGizmo Haiku AA (also constant current) and Zebralight SC5c/w II & SC53c/w, I don't see any that are current regulated. Anyone know of any other current regulated single AA lights?

 

I've got this one, Skilhunt M150 V2

Just awesome!

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

nocturne
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id30209 wrote:

I’ve got this one, Skilhunt M150 V2


Just awesome!

Hey id30209, we chatted years ago on CPF about Eneloop. chillinn there. I was foolishly pushing some cell with a claim of higher capacity, and you held to your guns. I was wrong, you were right, of course. Recently came across that thread and cringed.
Love my Eneloops. Smile

So which is it, current regulated, constant current, or both?

BurningPlayd0h
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nocturne wrote:
id30209 wrote:

I’ve got this one, Skilhunt M150 V2


Just awesome!

Hey id30209, we chatted years ago on CPF about Eneloop. chillinn there. I was foolishly pushing some cell with a claim of higher capacity, and you held to your guns. I was wrong, you were right, of course. Love my Eneloops. Smile

So which is it, current regulated, constant current, or both?

“Constant current” is by definition “current regulated” unless you’re trying to describe something different.

id30209
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Hey chilinn! Smile

BurningPlyd0h is right.

This one like ZL has constant output the whole runtime so regulated veeery nice

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

nocturne
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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
[“Constant current” is by definition “current regulated” unless you’re trying to describe something different.

I heard a rumor that some were being ambiguous with “constant current.”

Current regulated means the mode will keep its brightness constant.

Constant current means no PWM.

id30209
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Zebralight, Thrunite, Skilhunt and some more names have almost flat runtime line so as PWM on osciloscope. Better google for reviews by Zeroair, Liquidretro and 1lumenreviews cause they have graphs with meassurements and stuff. Not only few pictures

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

nocturne
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I knew Zebralight wasn’t strictly constant current, but also not strictly PWM because it doesn’t dip to zero output, still, it pulses brighter and dimmer. I wasn’t aware any other lights also had a similar scheme. Whether it is a problem for me depends on the light and frequency, and it isn’t necessarily that faster frequencies are better, and I don’t care if I see it or not as long as it doesn’t cause problems for me.

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I know what are you talking about but please look at the tests and graphs.

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

BurningPlayd0h
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nocturne wrote:
Current regulated means the mode will keep its brightness constant.

What you’re thinking of is output stabilization. The terms are used interchangeably here and probably on CPF too but are completely different. Every flashlight that has some sort of driver vs the LED/bulb/etc. being wired straight to the battery is “regulated”, and a CC driver operates on the principle of regulating the current that flows to the LED (with various ways of achieving that) and does NOT guarantee a stable output regardless of input voltage changing. Buck, boost and buck-boost drivers are the best (only?) at doing that, and there may be some CC designs that accomplish it as well… but I don’t understand how (maybe because buck drivers are still “CC” and accomplish it vs linear regulated CC drivers that don’t? i.e. Convoy’s new driver)

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