H600fc mk4 small review and measurements.

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AEDe
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H600fc mk4 small review and measurements.

Finally H600fc was received after 3 month waiting. I thought ZL spend 3 month to fix bugs and now it is almost ideal) Of course it is not.

Package is standard

Host is the same as later butch of FC mk3 (I have FC from first butch)

The host and button are very good.
Now ZL use pins in head

But FC still have spring in the tailcap. The spring is long and thin.
(Mk4/mk3/mk2 tailcap)

The current in turbo mode is about 6A (4.6A at 4.2 V). Thus in turbo spring became extremely hot, I even smell that something burn. As a result with good cooling stepdown take place after only 10min using new 18650GA Battery voltage is ~3.8V at that moment. I have tried to change tailcap to AWG18 wire and turbo work without stepdown. Then I test PID. Facepalm. Headlamp heat up to 60C(ambient temperature 25C)after 1min,than temperature decreases to ~50C. Output is more interesting. H1(1400lm not 1600) ~900lm ~500lm Huge oscillation with period 1min. It is the shame ZL!

Nevertheless I like xhp50.2.
Here the results of measurements in sphere.
At 1sec.

And at 30sec

I send email to ZL with those issues,and waiting for the answer
P.S. Graph made by ceilingbounce great app!

Edited by: AEDe on 02/19/2018 - 10:14
maukka
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Thanks a lot. Tint on max output looks great at least integrated, but that bad PID hunting looks similar to the SC64c.

AEDe
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maukka wrote:
bad PID hunting looks similar to the “SC64c”:http://budgetlightforum.com/node/58833.

Thanks for link, I have missed this review. I’m very surprised that ZL don’t fix this problem.
Pavlo
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Thanks for the review. Overall, do you still prefer the mk4 over the mk3?

SKV89
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Great review, I was thinking of buying the new Zebralight MK4 headlamps but I will wait for Zebralight’s response to your review. Thanks so much for sharing the information!

AEDe
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Pavlo wrote:
Thanks for the review. Overall, do you still prefer the mk4 over the mk3?

FC mk4 has much better LED and more interesting UI.So I still prefer mk4. But actually I prefer moded H03)

I use H1/H2 mode not often.So above problems do not concern me fully. But if you want to buy mk4 and have 1600lm , you will be very disappointed.

Bob_McBob
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The oscillating PID output seems to be standard for all the current generation Zebralight models. Maukka and I both recorded it with the SC64c, and it’s also present in the SC600w IV HI. The period seems to be long enough it probably isn’t visible, but I returned the lights so I can’t confirm. It’s certainly a far cry from the nice flat outputs in previous generation Zebralights.

If you want to increase PID output, you can raise the temperature up to 55°C.

The spring thing is a problem. I routinely use lights in cold enough weather they don’t step down on turbo, and there should never be a situation where that causes the spring to overheat. Please let us know what ZL says.

AEDe
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Bob_McBob wrote:
The period seems to be long enough it probably isn’t visible

Period is 1 min so it takes less than 30c(there is a small plato in highest point) to change from min(Max) to max(min). It is visible.
Bob_McBob
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That’s rather unfortunate Tired

zak.wilson
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It wouldn’t be a flashlight company if they didn’t manage to screw something up. So right now, to get the best possible headlamp, I think you need…

This all seems like too much work. I should start a flashlight company and make expensive stuff that doesn’t have anything seriously wrong with it. I’d sell dozens of them, I’m sure.

Ceilingbounce – flashlight testing and runtime graphs for Android

AEDe
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zak.wilson by the way as you can see at first picture mk4 have clip.
About holder. For outdoor use Armytek holder is the best way to lose headlamp)
The only point I agree with you is LED and MCPCB. It is really great light source.

zak.wilson
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I haven’t lost a Wizard yet, nor heard of anyone else having issues. I’ll admit it’s more likely to fall out in theory. I also haven’t heard of anyone else getting a clip included with their Zebralight H600-series, but it would be a big improvement if this is standard now.

Ceilingbounce – flashlight testing and runtime graphs for Android

AEDe
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zl’s reply
“1) We are aware of the high current through the spring, and that’s the exactly why we switched to multiple pins in our flashlight products. High output headlamp models will move to the pin design in the future. Different spring materials or bypass won’t help much because some of our customers will still insist on using their low quality high resistance protected batteries.
2) We are aware of the ringing/oscillating in the Mk 4 18650 lights. We’ll try to fine tune the PID parameters (and possibly setting up a new calibration process) in future. “

zak.wilson
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Quote:
Different spring materials or bypass won’t help much because some of our customers will still insist on using their low quality high resistance protected batteries.

That’s a bizarre response. Nothing will help if the user puts in a battery that can’t handle the light’s current draw, but a better spring will certainly help with the issues you described when an appropriate battery is in the light.

Ceilingbounce – flashlight testing and runtime graphs for Android

AEDe
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zak.wilson wrote:

That’s a bizarre response. Nothing will help if the user puts in a battery that can’t handle the light’s current draw, but a better spring will certainly help with the issues you described when an appropriate battery is in the light.

In other words ZL said :“We will do something …in future…may be”

Nev
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I might buy another zebralight in the future , maybe.

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It’s the first time I’ve read that the temperature of the spring affects the stepdown. Happens in all high-drain flashlights with spring?

It’s bad news for me, since I have an H600Fd on the way.

Evgeniy
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Bob_McBob wrote:
The spring thing is a problem. I routinely use lights in cold enough weather they don’t step down on turbo, and there should never be a situation where that causes the spring to overheat. Please let us know what ZL says.
spring isn’t a problem in all modes, except H1. And we can use any 18650 battery in these headlamps, it’s important point. thanks, Zebralight.

(2 caps, 1st universal, with long spring, and 2nd special cap with pins for 65mm unprotected, will be better, but 2 caps costs more money).

In IV generation we can simply change modes in G6 and G7 groups, exclude 1560lm mode, change H1 mode to 980/590lm, and solve this problem.

Flashlights : custom (Jaxman E2L with led4power LD-4 drivers and 3xOsram CQAR.CC), custom Skillhunt H03 with Osram 3К/4К, Zebralight {H600fc IV, Sc600fc IV, H600fc III}, Jaxman E2(N219b), Convoy UV.
Previous: Zebralight {H501, H600W, H600W II, H602W}, NiteCore TIPCRI, A A01, Fenix L2D CE/CEQ5.

AEDe
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alex64 wrote:
It’s the first time I’ve read that the temperature of the spring affects the stepdown. Happens in all high-drain flashlights with spring?

Actually it is the first time when I saw such problem too. Usually high-drain flashlights use CU Be springs (Noctigon) or simply thick springs.

Tachead
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I am pretty sure he is blowing the spring issue out if proportion. He didn’t even say if the spring was discoloured. I am sure ZL tested the light and I bet as long as a good quality cell with an appropriate current rating is used the spring will work fine. Plenty of other users have reviewed this light and no one else has said anything about an issue with the spring. Just use the lights guys and if there is an issue ZL has great customer service and a good warranty.

AEDe
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Tachead wrote:
I am pretty sure he is blowing the spring issue out if proportion. He didn’t even say if the spring was discoloured. I am sure ZL tested the light and I bet as long as a good quality cell with an appropriate current rating is used the spring will work fine. Plenty of other users have reviewed this light and no one else has said anything about an issue with the spring. Just use the lights guys and if there is an issue ZL has great customer service and a good warranty.

Almost nobody spend his time for testing. This spring is not suitable for 6A, it is simple physics.
Another report BTW www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?443856-Defective-zebralight-.... Post #4.
www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?443663-Zebralight-H600Fc-Mk-.... Post 63 and 80
niraya
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Tachead wrote:
Plenty of other users have reviewed this light and no one else has said anything about an issue with the spring.
Simply not true. You may try to read the reports again.

What has been one of the excellencies of previous versions was the perfectly constant brightness output in all levels – it is a wreck right now. Sick
And their response just make no sense whatsoever.

I am returning the H600Fc mkIV and going back to Armytek Wizard Pro v3 (much better, smoother PID with stable output at turbo) and H600Fc mkIII (not happy about it, since I like the XHP50.2 and especially the new UI that saved me from accidentally blinding myself trying to start in moonlight in old UI). Will buy mkIV surely again after they fix it.

alex64
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Evgeniy wrote:
In IV generation we can simply change modes in G6 and G7 groups, exclude 1560lm mode, change H1 mode to 980/590lm, and solve this problem.

You don’t solve it, just hide it…

The problem persists with the mk2 tailcap? In the photo it seems a bit thicker.

AEDe
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alex64 wrote:

The problem persists with the mk2 tailcap? In the photo it seems a bit thicker.

The springs are almost the same. I’ll try to made 18awg bypass, after 30day guarantee.

Tachead
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AEDe wrote:
Tachead wrote:
I am pretty sure he is blowing the spring issue out if proportion. He didn’t even say if the spring was discoloured. I am sure ZL tested the light and I bet as long as a good quality cell with an appropriate current rating is used the spring will work fine. Plenty of other users have reviewed this light and no one else has said anything about an issue with the spring. Just use the lights guys and if there is an issue ZL has great customer service and a good warranty.
Almost nobody spend his time for testing. This spring is not suitable for 6A, it is simple physics. Another report BTW www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?443856-Defective-zebralight-.... Post #4. www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?443663-Zebralight-H600Fc-Mk-.... Post 63 and 80

It only draws that kind of amperage for seconds until the thermal regulation kicks and likely only on a mostly discharged cell.

And, none of those reports mention anything about the spring getting too hot or becoming discolored(a sign of over heating).

Tachead
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niraya wrote:
Tachead wrote:
Plenty of other users have reviewed this light and no one else has said anything about an issue with the spring.
Simply not true. You may try to read the reports again.

What has been one of the excellencies of previous versions was the perfectly constant brightness output in all levels – it is a wreck right now. Sick
And their response just make no sense whatsoever.

I am returning the H600Fc mkIV and going back to Armytek Wizard Pro v3 (much better, smoother PID with stable output at turbo) and H600Fc mkIII (not happy about it, since I like the XHP50.2 and especially the new UI that saved me from accidentally blinding myself trying to start in moonlight in old UI). Will buy mkIV surely again after they fix it.

I have read the reports and no one mentioned anything about the spring overheating or discoloring.

If you are talking about the PID ringing, while I agree it should have been better tuned, it is not noticeable in normal use and the gen 4 thermal regulation is much improved over the gen 3’s in other ways(2048 micro levels vs 384, smoother less noticeable ramping).

It’s pretty funny how people blow issues out of proportion even if they have little to no effect on actual use. It’s also funny how people disregard all the good things about a light and just focus on the flaws no matter how insignificant. No light is perfect but, ZL make some of the closest ones I have found.

Have fun sitting in the dark when your Armytek dies lol. And, there lights have pretty bad ringing too by the way…

https://i.imgur.com/ZYf3NX7.jpg

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Tachead wrote:
If you are talking about the PID ringing, while I agree it should have been better tuned, it is not noticeable in normal use and the gen 4 thermal regulation is much improved over the gen 3's in other ways(2048 micro levels vs 384, smoother less noticeable ramping). It's pretty funny how people blow issues out of proportion even if they have little to no effect on actual use. It's also funny how people disregard all the good things about a light and just focus on the flaws no matter how insignificant. No light is perfect but, ZL make some of the closest ones I have found.


may be, PID in IV version isn't optimal (tuned for max.output), but what we have in practice ?

 

1) max. mode for continuous use in any weather is 280lm (may be, except very hot nights), this mode has no PID.

And no problems with PID, no problems with springs.

 

2) In cold/moderate cold weather (as currently in my city, ~~0C) 580lm mode will work without PID and may be used for continuous use.  (yes, in case of hot weather brightless will be decreased by PID.) 

No problems with PID, no problems with springs.

 

3) For short time in any weather we can use turbo mode, 980lm, for 1-2min. With PID, but in any case we 'll receive 1-2min of bright light. It's more than user usually need for "turbo" purposes from headlamp,

for many years I use turbo mode in my Zebra headlamps for few tens seconds, <1min.

No problems with PID, no problems with springs.

 

4)  watercooled / hard cooled tests + continuous use of 1560lm mode, other "bdsm" use, etc.

Yes, in these modes we 'll have problems with PID and problems with springs.

 

Flashlights : custom (Jaxman E2L with led4power LD-4 drivers and 3xOsram CQAR.CC), custom Skillhunt H03 with Osram 3К/4К, Zebralight {H600fc IV, Sc600fc IV, H600fc III}, Jaxman E2(N219b), Convoy UV.
Previous: Zebralight {H501, H600W, H600W II, H602W}, NiteCore TIPCRI, A A01, Fenix L2D CE/CEQ5.

AEDe
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Tachead wrote:

And, none of those reports mention anything about the spring getting too hot or becoming discolored(a sign of over heating).


If you don’t know Ohms law , I can not help you to understand this simple fact.
FYI discolored take place under very hi temperature higher than the melting point of the solder.
Tachead
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My point is there is no safety issue and the light will still work just fine even if the performance on H1 isn’t optimal.

These are still great lights and one of the best choices for a headlamp of on the market even if they have a couple of small things that can be improved. Scaring people away from them when these are very minor issues is doing them a disservice imo.

As for these minor issues, ZL is always refining their designs and I am sure they will be improved in the future. These are brand new models and there is always a risk buying the first run of anything. Just like vehicles buying the first of a new design is always taking a risk and if want the least issues then you have to be patient and wait for all the bugs to be worked out and not buy from the first few runs.

But honestly, these issues are so minor that I doubt they would even present an issue with most people in real world use. I know for a fact the PID ringing is more of a “light meter problem” and has little effect on normal use. The new thermal regulation on these lights is so smooth that you can barely even tell its working in ideal conditions when you are trying to see it so the occilations won’t even be noticed.

niraya
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Tachead wrote:
My point is there is no safety issue and the light will still work just fine even if the performance on H1 isn’t optimal.

These are still great lights and one of the best choices for a headlamp of on the market even if they have a couple of small things that can be improved. Scaring people away from them when these are very minor issues is doing them a disservice imo.

As for these minor issues, ZL is always refining their designs and I am sure they will be improved in the future. These are brand new models and there is always a risk buying the first run of anything. Just like vehicles buying the first of a new design is always taking a risk and if want the least issues then you have to be patient and wait for all the bugs to be worked out and not buy from the first few runs.

But honestly, these issues are so minor that I doubt they would even present an issue with most people in real world use. I know for a fact the PID ringing is more of a “light meter problem” and has little effect on normal use. The new thermal regulation on these lights is so smooth that you can barely even tell its working in ideal conditions when you are trying to see it so the occilations won’t even be noticed.

Trying to obscure it helps nobody. Facepalm For the money they charging, they simply should not have released it in this wretched state.

AEDe
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I agree FC anyway is the best L shaped headlamp. But
this issue have effect on my using, Firstly I noticed oscillation by my eyes, and only then I test FC by light meter . I just warn everybody.For some people this may be important.
The sooner ZL recognise it’s own bugs the better))

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